Housing Select Committee - Wednesday, 18th November 2020 at 7:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Housing Select Committee
Wednesday, 18th November 2020 at 7:00pm 









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1 Minutes of the meeting held on 15 September 2020
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2 Declarations of interest
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3 Responses from Mayor and Cabinet
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5 Select Committee work programme
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  1. Webcast Finished

them in sand pit abandoned and I welcome you all to this housing select committed tonight
and because we are doing it to now outcome are now is being webcast and like to read some few guidelines are three men have we will have to follow
so that we can make this meeting and are a bit more manageable
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I am
like to ask Members if they have got enter also been apologies sent and Steve Penfold and apologies for lightness for Ashling
another apologies
alphabet soup
Sarah other similar and an apology for lateness from the Sophie Davis as a mix official

1 Minutes of the meeting held on 15 September 2020

and integration and the minutes of the lustre meeting is there any matters arising from the last meeting minutes members
and matters arising all should declare this as a to record
yet found by me

2 Declarations of interest

right OK with an answer that says that The Grey right or sitting as an agreement will be Parisian of interest and a member with an into interest them on an items and discussion tonight
now just to put on record from one of the
board member for Phoenix representing notion for Phoenix and session co
thank you to Councillor window so yeah I'm a nation highs can against general declaration of interest not anything whose specified
thank you
I'm the bund item on the agenda is responses from the Mayor and Cabinet

3 Responses from Mayor and Cabinet

we have received a response from the Mayor and Cabinet which is an allowance knowledge the town that were committed to note the response
I now take on item 4 which is a budget cuts proposal I'm sure the Cabinet going to do it he was presenting or covering it says it is Jack are that he hovered you uncovering yet I think it's me Hawking OK OK yes if the Floyd's you us please gone OK thank you Chair
and thank you committee can I just think that before we go into the specifics I think it's probably worth fall me putting at the context of the current proposals before you tonight because I think I as you know I've been in local government for a very long time and I think I've never seen I think such a challenging financial times were facing now as a Council and of course you'll know it's not it's not only Lewisham council this is a challenge that all of our colleague councils in London and indeed nationally are facing for a whole range of reasons which aren't going to just say something about now I
your turbine
thank you Chair apologies

4 Budget cuts proposals

I'd just like to say that I've been in local government for a long time and I think it's quite right to say that I don't think cancels have faced such a challenging financial time in that period and I'd like to just give you some context tonight around some of the proposals are coming before you and rather than just dive straight into them so I think it's really important for us to recognise the impact the financial impact that a covert has had on the council and of course it's not just Lewisham council it's our Colley councils in London Councils of the down the country as well
but actually the impact furs illusion as been to this today said in this this yet 68 million pounds and I'm afraid to say that those costs are rising and will continue to rise 20 million in relation to excess costs that we have now which we didn't have before so we're doing new things and we're having to pay for the things but also 38 million pounds in terms of lost income with us or charges that we've been making all a commercial activity that we had so together those things add up to 68 million pounds and of course when we were at the start of this process we did get a commitment from the government that they were going to cover all costs now as ever the detail comes out over the months and what we're now beginning to see is that actually some of these costs won't be covered by the government of course those discussions are ongoing and will to will continue for some time I'm sure up until we get to the end of this but we need to take account of the risks associated with that situation and we need to think about how we're going to balance the books
so the other thing I need to say is an euro aware now we're in the second lockdown period so of course the council now has to mobilise our resources are staff and financial resources to take account of that seconds a lockdown period and to thank Canada second wave of covert which unfortunately as you've been watching the news you know is is sadly having such a devastating impact on our communities
so we're not having to think about a track and trace and testing and with glassy days had been putting some resources into those areas that were ready to take on the next challenge that the government have asked us to undertake and of course we're having to think about how we will respond to the potential for vaccines to come on stream in the new year hopefully as early as possible but it's inevitably councils will be asked to help with that and we will need to think about how we do that
so that's the sort of current backdrop the pressures that have come to the council because of covert but of course as you are aware we always also as a council carrying forward a significant overspends from a previous years and one could see the significant pressures for previous years so 10 million pounds of that was in children's social care environment services and technologies at the three main areas and and and of course we've taken action this year to try to contain the expenditure so we've agreed as you no earlier on this year to one off savings proposals of 5 point 4 million pounds and with also put further spending controls in place to try to contain that extra expenditure
so we have the covert expenditure we've also got some underlying budget pressures in significant areas where we're really focused on in or providing services for our most vulnerable citizens and then of course we've got the economic or circumstances which the government faced now and they of course will need to think about their comprehensive spending Review that you know I've been here for many years we've we've we we usually come to you with you know a proper package which has based on the government's comprehensive spending Review Lafayette review which usually covers 3 years of course this year because occur but the government have got a comprehensive spending review yet and their intention is unlit have looked for one year
or so we don't have the you know that the longer term view that we would normally have at this point where we have got the Government's intentions in mind or milk our own finances
and of course the Provisional Local government Settlement which is the annual settle in which we go every that won't be with us until mid to late December
so you can see that the the this this means that there's a huge amount of financial uncertainty in terms of how the Council take goes forward and as ever
been a prudent Council we will make our resources match what we've got and we will make our budgets match the resources that we have available so we've been doing a lot of work over the summer on the management team with colleagues across the council and we recognise that we think it's a man's to a very very difficult and challenging cuts package of some 40 million pounds over the next three years with the addition of 10 million pounds which had been carrying as a as a as an overspend today so 50 million pounds really over the next three years that's the challenge the government and the Council have and unless you know this this could be made significantly worse if the government don't fond of fully for COVID-19 and as I said area and that's very much in question at the moment
so in order to take a strategic view to this thick the council has done something different this year so we've looked a series of themes rather than just look at service directorates are service areas for it for goods and you'll be aware you feel in the papers so that the themes we looked through where productivity really about can we do things more efficiently and in particular can be take advantage of the technological improvements which have made over the last years and some of the lessons that have led from COVID-19 to do things in a more efficient way
joint working is another theme and that's really about how we work with our partners in the health service in the police and other voluntary sector partners so that that we really think about where costs and where resources should lie we across across our partners and whether or not by joint jointly working Besic we can actually cut out pinch points across boundaries and make some savings their service reconfiguration
really we've had to make massive changes in the way we do business as a Council as you know is evidenced by the way we're doing this committee tonight we're running many of our services through the internet should teams and to various no ways and we need to think about because we're doing it like that work we're now thinking about how services are configured and whether or not we can change the way services worked together in the council to create some efficiencies we looked at Asset Rationalisation and you know we have we have a commitment in the council to use a strategic assets carefully and you'll see you've had many reports come to this committee where we've been investing in those acids to doubly social housing for our citizens and will continue to do that but we do have assets were that that they're not of great value or they could be used differently and we need to look at the commercial Our potential for those assets and also think about whether or not the big if they're not strategic assets and if there if they're not that there are no other users that they can go to other potential other potentially available for for for to other sell to one of our partners or to use differently or in the to think about a different approaches
the commercial approach really that's looking right across the council and getting the right mindset around some of our services where there's a balance between what we do as a direct service and what we charge for and the fees that we charge and again thinking commercially about that are we are we charging if if something's costing us as a council is significant Manton were not covering our overheads in that cost can we get a different mindset can we look at things more commercially and and really really charge the appropriate level for both services and lastly but not legally demand management which
cuts mainly across the the for areas of where we've got big the man housing being one of them as you know homelessness and housing but also children's services adult social care and indeed Environment Services which is other universal is is a demand-led service
so the draft proposals which you've got before you tonight
a man to we with our aim was to get up to around 26 million which I think we've we've we've done but of course there's only 15 million for next year and we recognise that we have a big gap a big gap if we're going to close that again so although the the savings that are before tonight are very challenging aye it's I'm I find a half can advise you that we will be coming back to you in January with further savings and they will be perhaps even more challenging than there was before receiving because we do we're still some way off bridging the gap so we've still got about 19 million pounds with the savings to attend fight to close that gap for next year
so the each I think you've been given a sort of navigation chart for the savings that we think are appropriate for this committee to look at but of course I'm here to answer questions on any and any that I can and I you know once you get a chance to comment and began trading this evening and I think the next step is for them to you to make comments until the public accounts Committee before eventually end up going to the Mayor Cabinet in December and I just like to say the committee it's been very difficult for us this year I staff are working remarkably well and hard I never really had to stretch the boundaries to to deliver the critical services over the COVID-19 period and to go above and beyond you know their job descriptions by a long shot and you know they've they've taken on all of the tasks that the government have given us and they're doing a fantastic job looking after our community and our people so it's very difficult then to for them to then sit down and have to think about making savings after the universe almost heroic efforts so I think it's it's equally difficult for you as Councillors to have to do the given given the support that you've given it that you know our community this year so it's very challenging so I think that's the general introduction Chair and I'm happy to go directly to the savings Anestis any questions on on the general introduction first
then the questions took urban so far better before you do that only 2 point members into them
navigation chart that was not just a coming up just to make sure that Edna reference Isro 7 which is on page 77 80 as about housing productivity gains referenced 0 5 which is on page 1 41 43 of on a par people purpose is housing needs and proud a Procurement Service Review
I refer to as a civil servant but it is on the pitch to or 72 10 is housing increased went for private sector leased and the private market event accommodate managed accommodation
and the last one here is them I reference F 12 F 1 2 is them but one to Abbott pitched to 56 to to 60 and is housing people with no recourse to public funds so if you have a that if you haven't got that term never get to shed those other references on the paperwork and Christian to Kevin
I think Cassar can has a question
are Councillor Carter ha at yas raise your hand out appreciate for the benefits of the management of this meeting to right to kill on them
On the message panel thank you
thank you Chair
years ago Catherine one of the things about this to concerns me and it doesn't relate to housing
in in some areas
I understand taking a more commercial approach and increasing rents but my concern is that this could basically
end up being counterproductive
because if we charge a right that people can't afford we just end up with a lot of empty spaces or
I large eviction list later down the line what are we doing to create a balance showed up what we charging is affordable
yeah it's a very good point so I'll to say that we've been doing a lot of work were Oliver local businesses this year because you can imagine how hard they were hit given the lockdowns never to Joe so we've we've we've I think today we've we've managed to get government grants of some 40 million at out to local businesses to to make sure that their Bill they survive over the that the period and the and we've been doing a lot of work with the Chamber of Commerce and Ann are are partners in in in the business sector to do a whole range of other things to support them including of course what we we've been mindful of is those businesses that are in our Commercial estate that that that there are supported and that they are helped get through this to to the to the other side rarely so we will continue to do that so we do need to find a balance between what we charge in ranked and what businesses can afford and is no point in having empty premises so where that that's a dialogue that's ongoing always with businesses and will continue to do that it's not it's not our our aim is to have a thriving local business economy I am a were also conscious that you know we have a significant number of third sector and voluntary sector groups who are who was providing services the gay and we need to be alive for that you know to that possibility as well I'm not not not trying out the baby with the bathwater so it's about getting the balance right and I'm I'm were alive to that costly councillor thank you very much Kevin because all we see our business and our private sector was not causing specifically in a way we do house them Fire renting business premises to them
and I'm very concerned for our local economy at the moment I think we need to find some creative ways to look at new pathways forward
thank you and good to Councillor window with a question
thank you Chair I just want to ask Kevin regarding so when we look into all assets what we have is it to get rid of it to use the money to
to cover the losses of ward thing place well it's it's it's it's more it's more about so are in the in the the common terminology is assets but actually some assets our liabilities 1 assets they should be assets but they're not the liabilities so you know I would say crudely where something's in Aceh if we think that by investing in it we can add value at public value either through creating social housing or true providing some sort of leisure opportunity of doing something which add add public value however there are some assets which there for whatever reason they that they're not usable it may well be because to invest in the midges itself so expensive or it may well be because they're in a bad location and that location you know is is isn't it isn't a strategic are a good location to do things with an and put their costing us money the costing us revenue because we thought we've got to maintain them
and we've got a secure them so we don't want to be securing assets for the sake of holding onto them if we never got to use them and so it's about taking a balanced view and then if we can do by using either using the differently are investing in them are potentially taking a view that then it would be best to you know not not own these assets then taking a different yet but bought reducing our revenue cost as appropriate and I just make the point again this is not about strategic assets this is about assets which are are don't don't the not of great use of the council
I also know acts again may not be part of these meeting to I just want to acolyte for example we have them my Shang House in Beckenham Park Place yet like those one can we not walk with our partner to look at what we can do with the very much so that's on the cards to with I think we we I can't remember now what we secured a massive amount of money as you note invested Beckenham Place Park until you get the stables back into Cray a really fantastic I think it really fantastic card for our local people and for the and DB on so that there is at least two other assets of their one of them is The Mansion that we will come round to in and that's that's that's one that we will we will seek to invest in with our partners because I think it's a it's a it's a hugely important asset for for the park and for the area so that's not what I know more about that individual asset than I do about many others believe me as I spent many years on it but you know that I hope we can secure Samore external grant funding to help with that with that process and I think that the National Lottery fund will look look got look favourably on us to do so so that's not one of those that's not an asset that I'd be looking to to it's a I mean that's that's a strategic asset thank you work yet before before I invite her Councillor Bill Brown and question Coburn winner is so the always disposal than none strategic properties invest that money to biased at a decrepit aware does Armani way that remain invested well it will able or it kept in our it's it'll be usually it's used to fund the capital programme so again it would fund potentially the delivery of social housing pertain or are as you know there are other capital challenges that we've got in Catford with the theatre and other places like that way and we need to we need to constantly look at ways to fund some of those investments which we want to make
so yes it would be to meet the Council's as strategic priorities investing in those saw when suddenly but that but the Budget implication the Revenue Budget implication would be the saving that we potentially might make from the cost of either maintenance security claiming whatever whatever whatever those costs go with it so so insurer saying that the council doesn't or purchase of properties at the moment now we do we do put his properties at the moment yet I in fact was it the last mayor cabinet and other next year Cabinet there's a proposal to to to to purchase we are we we regularly purchase proper properties
as my Bill Brown
Councillor Brown are you bear
can you tell me when I can't hear you
I thank God you can't hear me that's the most important thing and yet went partly happened is that the common and a slight fit for a puddle me connection show at that came zoned-out debate and undertook to check how we go through each of the items allocated to the Committee in turn and then secondly with just to make a comment to call it that even though the Committee has been allocated certain areas to look at it didn't stop colleagues if there's other areas that haven't been allocated to the committee this committee careers points at the may wish to pass on air to PAC thanks Peter thanks SHA my Tirphil that turn on the term
we are asking questions General according to what term has been introduced by a curving at the moment there is our mother given numbers the Prince of reference where they should concentrate the question is equations but obviously but is does a matter not that the end of them the credit they can ask questions it Lydon to other parts of the of the budget if Kevin is here provided other now he probably go away on the
and send us them either the corrects an information so everybody's welcome to 2 and a comment on the budget proposals on elsewhere and another for me to that's what I mean yeah got a question here for a Mayor Councillor Carter
Salonika thank you yes I took me moments one mute and
Kevin I know everything looks really bleak and Dyer I'm
however out of crises often come up very good opportunities so I'm wondering what we're doing to look at the potential for making the most of any opportunities that arise obviously in a balanced way
things that will work for our communities
and our housing need
yet are not going to put any further strain on on what we know is a severely underfunded budget
well think that things are challenging that's for sure I wouldn't want to say that they weren't but I think you know just you know if I look at the proposal in front of this committee tonight for the moment I think you'll see that we've we've put forward proposals which broadly speaking we've managed to arrive at by
you know looking at working more efficiently changing the way we do things taking advantage of some of the a new approaches that we've worked through what you the Committee over recent years and and also being smart about you know looking at looking at ways of of ensuring that we we lean on if you think about Earth about joint work but we lean on the deal we opinion and the and the and the government to pay for us of things so in the paper before you for this committee's and I I'm I'm happy to say that none of the proposals will involve any redundancies so that's a positive I think and that's because the service has been so really so good at baking efficiencies in the last year and and have a and they have taken account of and new technology any have taken that to take account of new ways of working so we're able to I think deliver the savings point of view but because in the main there through vacancies or work that's been done differently so that we've managed to to operate with with a smaller budget
and so I mean that's a positive now and the Council as a whole is is is trying to do that but you know yet as I said earlier on this another 18 19 million quid to of cuts coming through in January which will it will definitely not be possible to I think deliver without some significant staffing but they're not on the cards tonight so that's a part as a positive for tonight I think
thank you a concern of a question saw Kevin canoe compel no or no yet the less one but others that so that I should have answered the Councillor Brown's a question directly which is obviously Kevin is going on through this items one by one by one sorry about that
OK thank you I'm up to
sorry chaps I think there's a question from Councillor wise owl
yes Councillor wise sorry Kevin thank you Chair and them again apologies for being light I hadn't fared on a suite of beginning at 7 rather than 7 30
are we able to look out in Booker individual cut proposals chair yet on this or are doing now you're smashing thank you in that case Kevin good to see you and could you talk me through
See our 5 which is the housing needs procurement review of the services place
yeah I think one of the one of the benefits that we've had over the last year if he had been a silver lining if you like of of COVID-19 of which there are not many of course but we have managed to really find new ways of working together across all of our teams I'm not that's not just within the housing services across the Council so because we've been forced to lose our front door service we've had to really be you know smart in terms of how we do deliver that service and work with other parts of the Council particularly you're a colleagues Castle was you'll remember in public services the call centre be like that and and so we've managed to really change the way we do the interface at the first point of assessment with most for customers and and work is working incredibly well and people are very very happy with it I insert and also what we were doing is were using the call centre staff to do some element of that first triage which if you remember back in the Eurozone day a lot of the calls that you get a repeat calls that come come you know but of course that takes up a matter when it time but we've really mai that more streamlined now in which more efficient and that enables us to I think worked together in the future and and by doing so we've we've held open certain roles and certain vacancies and we managed to create those efficiency so that's what that's that's what that proposal comes from could I ask a supplementary place Chair
yes gone thank you very much for that Kevin and no one has managed to slip through the net or have they well I think one of the things we've been very very conscious of is is people slipping through the net and I think to be fair with we've done a remarkable job of going beyond the usual net this time because you know the the sheer quantum of work we factor do with homeless and street homeless to to to to ensure that there were safe during Kevin I deem her eyes mean that I think we're working very very well with our partners obviously Lewisham homes but also Phoenix and the housing association so that if people are slipping through the net anywhere they're immediately make we're immediately made aware of them and of course ourselves as Councillors you know we're able to respond to your your what you say on your doorstep as well so I think that were that we've we've managed to cover a great amount of territory and that we're not letting anyone slip through the net OK that there will be exceptions bombing inject general I think we've done very well
thank you for that and your reassurance calving like Chair of soil the some covering their referencing of a message on the chart saw you couldn't I've got the next item was so I got was see our five so I go back to the first item on your chart which was there housing productivity gains or and this again is piece of work which new technologies helped us greatly here so before when we are work with private landlords we have teams of people having to you know take text and and and type bit in here at the at the Town Hall and usually after chasing landlords for in relation to their licences and the HMO licence of the that of course now we've got system whereby to get the license landlords themselves have to input the data so we've transferred the cost of you know that application process and that whole process move that over to landlord quite rightly so it's so it's their time and it's their efforts that that that deliver this and and because of that we've we've been able to hold open some agency posts that we were currently previously depending on and we won't be going back to that previous way of doing it will stick with the new way of doing it and I hope we can get even further efficiencies as we go forward the
so that's a classic example of where the new technology forces to change in the service and terms of how it responds and also requires the citizens are in this case landlords to change what they do and more and cost the appropriate cost is with the the landlord as opposed to the council
thank your Kervern under current as the interval the 200 and 2 thousand servings that may Mendel of being made on that are you say to her it doesn't come with the Inner staff redundancies all or another about no no Stafford on the seas vacancies yes because we don't been been able to you know good turn over staff you hold a certain amount of Banksy and also agency staff which we had in doing this work as well without we want we won't be replacing them in the future
thank you Councillor O'Callaghan O'Connor question 1
thank you and I Mackie restricted on a envisaged impact upon our private residence that we think this but this particular new policy will have because it does seem to be quite a new way working
well I think funnily enough it is like a lot of things you know takes landlords a bit of time it's those landlords that's mainly that that we're talking about here to tax them a little bit of time to the Czech like that does all of us to change book to be quietly give them a bit more control over the process so you know they they've responded very well to that and you know so whereas before you know we will be chasing them for information or to fill in some forms and so for that now they know there won't get a licence to live gone through the process and that that sort of so you give them a role but you also give them control over that process a bit so I think it's I think it's gone down quite well
thank you
the carbon before I know there was some a system where we could share a database the TA way about the rogue landlords with other authorities and and staff as this use any of the system is that still the case now because they will normally of human interaction their soul of this one with about his saucer
been factored in
yet now we still we still
we've got we got various forms across London where we share information about our collective rogue landlords because as you know they don't just uprating one bird these were Glenwood so so Fenella goes to a Directors' meeting on a regular basis I meet with my colleagues in other forums but we also have the the officers who do that work they've got forms where they you know Chair information so that we keep on top of landlords wherever their operation you know as much as we can so that does form still exist
they can logistical support and that is the GLA rogue landlord checkers well and the mechanisms where we can where we can we can check members can find out details of people who were a rogue landlords and secondly just so that Members kind of conceded system that we were that you've just been describing I don't know because the Bernard's all other Members if you recently applied for passport so you know like in the old is on now to apply for passport on 9 you have to load your picture do not get all this stuff done before you click submit and then the passport goes to the passport office that's the same sort of thing is what we are now doing so in order to get a license landlords have to put in the city
put in the ownership of all the information that we need upfront and then pressed submit which is different from before so I thought I don't have that might help
no I think I'm not does not as that is a mechanism to filter the Rogel unless other inaudible on the rail uploading that information is not a problem the problem is utterly to build an environment knowing that these are the people who can be rogue landlords and Oldham in our borough over an hour or so business as long as that is in place and I'm I'm satisfy built up part of the process of of doing the licence application is that we have to up to we have to to something called a fit and proper test and enduring the fit and proper test we we do exactly that we check that the people applying are what in what are considered of people who
we believe who pass the fit and proper test and can therefore the licence banker
OK so I can't see another question on that particular one none so I think Kevin continue
OK so that the the next proposal is to at said so that the the schemes we have in the private sector where we least are we rent from the private sector for a to accommodate attempt accommodation we've got to schemes at the moment we currently subsidise those schemes to the tune of about a million pounds in from the General Fund right and the reason that work that we're having to pay that subsidies because actually we're not charging enough ranked so this proposal is to increase those rents to the LHA levels what I have to say about this proposal is we will not transfer any chart this does not increase the rate to the tenant right because by increasing the rates that will mean that the Council can claim back a a extra housing benefit which will mean that our subsidy to these rents will reduce by the soul of 300 thousand pounds which is what you see in funding there so it's this is this is about if you think about the theme then this is about working a bit more smartly with our partners in the data be a p to make sure that where charging the appropriate rent set at work not having to subsidise the rent answer that the Housing benefit picks up that cost so again this is a this is a smart proposal it won't have any impact on our actual tenants that rises be lit him accommodation it will have an impact on reducing US subsidy
thank you very much OK good a question on that role 0 well becoming a kitchen of that not once your communicate that to the tenants because the have to be to Garance has gone up the when they will have to be town are ranked has gone up but we will we up we know exactly who who were talking about we've got a list of tenancy were talking about and will do that very much in you know in in communication with them so they will know when we talk to them that their their rate is going up but they will not be paying any more for their accommodation
yes it on an individual basis Councillor Brian odds that those OK thank her under I've got term opposite have got something going on behind the scenes between LA myself and Fenella with us which is due to do almost with what we are doing here are is the value for money for this properties I because you don't tell someone that you increase the rent
on to the property that are living in they think should be even be chipper so
how do you March that there was an
people complained that if the rent is too high by the accommodation is not and is not what they think their money's worth
yeah I sadly cancer I think that there are many many many families and individuals in London who who don't touch the sides of the council who probably feel exactly the same that they're paying out you know very high rates for what they getting I think what we have to try and do and we do try and do without without landlords is that we we we worked with them and we enforcer standard as much as possible are but we do and if you if you look at cross London you will I'm sure agree with me that that that the private rented sector and the cost of the private rented sector to citizens generally as as as shot up in the last decade partly because we just do don't have enough housing supply in London and Abbey Donovan of houses within the social housing but we also have enough general housing supply for people
it in the private rented sector so the quality is inevitably going to suffer but for us what we try and do is work closely were landlords get those standards enforced where that where they when at when it where the landlords are complying with we will change that if we can and we need to explain to the tenants the market in terms of rents and which is a very very tight market by take the point that you make are Councillor Bernard I would I would dearly love to for all of our citizens we paid lower
rents in the private rented sector but you know is it does challenge
thank you Councillor Carter
thank you Chair calving I hear what you're saying about my liking the my city LH I and I understand that my concerns those tenants who are on low incomes but not in receipt of any benefit how are we going to deal with those because it seems like you're creating a two-tier system we've looked up our Oliver tenants in been endeavour talking about here and we don't believe that any of them will be adversely affected so we've got to each and everyone what we will do if if there if there is a potential for anyone to be adversely affected we will look at discretionary hasn't payments to make sure that they're not but I don't believe there will be but but but you know our intention is not to do that and we were on the lookout for that cancer care so you know that's what the team would be tasked it thank you carry not a gun I mean obviously that guys wondered ways concerns because very often those earning no incomes are more vulnerable than those on benefit and we know they are an extremely vulnerable shortly it's I think it's it's vital that we ensure nobody that in that situation 6 through our net absolutely great completely
I cannot answer the question but I do have one cavil yeah yeah most of this tenants that turn you end away m increase rent fall they received a rinse through universal credit most of them or housing benefit whatever under the first place for them to call one the receive and notification of the rent is going up
with a bit universal credit came that interview
be so I am this is why I'm still insisting on the communication of his because the somebody will reactive what the Hunter saved and if they want to get more information
because although it would appear that money for the landlord which have received from the inverse of credit so was that man has been increased these now they're going to be left with
less or nothing but so the EU and know that there was need to come to the council tool ask for discussion of fund it'll make it up so that might also leave some people wanted an them increase problem increase homelessness homelessness because
down the line once things have been settled initially down the line if somebody universal crater waxes if you get a job than the amount goes down if you live their job before you get to the top up of what you are before it takes time under current take toll on people so how are you going to mitigate that well they think the great
July of working in local government is that of course the team that and deals with the housing benefit is now sitting next door to the team that deals were housing generally so we will triangulate those conversations Councillor Bernard between the different service areas that deal with that and we will make sure that the communication is very clear to the
to the to the tenants and will will so out with other saying We'll do it they will we will deal with these cases on an individual basis and we will make sure that they're very very closely communicate when terms of ongoing needs of course hopefully as as Tonga zone you know we are talking about people Temerko alleged they will move on to secure accommodation as people do you know so but was there in this situation we will be dealing with them as individuals compassionately carefully
thank you under over profligate attacker but impact of Covent into people's jobs on staff and to account when the doing this right forget girl
site that the last one I've got before you tonight is no recourse to public funds and I mean I know I spent I think quite quiet consider about a time talk about this last year about the changes that we have made to really make this a service that was really supportive of some of our most vulnerable citizens which is wish it is and we be very very successful in that approach you know we've we've we've really managed to work well with the Home Office to secure and regularise that the the the the our caseload and we continue to do that we've we've got better I think as time got as gone on so this again is is a saving that we're able offer up because when we're just not using this fit this bit of the budget at the moment and as as I said last year should pressure come back in this budget the Council would come back to of but we don't we just don't need this this this 300 thousand now we're not using it and we don't think we'll be using it in the in the near future and that's really because of the success of the the team the brave team that's been doing the work on this so who you've who you've may you've met over the over the year and are when they have come to the housing selection me I think so
it this is a relatively easy one to take at this point and is down to it the success of the team
there is is good to hear that tree we got summer so some department
the and the Council was very very good to manage ment of that particular department and then when you say 300
100 thousand serving from that term and people no recourse to public fund what what are you are projected them expenditure
o good points are done off the top my head the latest projection but it's it's still several million I think yes I couldn't tell you the latest figure off the top my head but I will send that to you Councillor Bernard's but this this is easily achievable within the context of the overall budget
thank you are over-represented non-secular to their members that would be great building yeah will drive you
I make another question to Kevin
thank you very much Kevin I think Liz no question for you for them that's great thank you very much thank you I know regard to our next I'd tell which is
the Committee Sahota I'm sorry

5 Select Committee work programme

just juggling start here sorry I think it said about American programme yes come it will Programme John Donne yeah thank you Chair and the work programme is on Haiti is on page 3 and monitor it was somebody as as a question here
can I just tell them and can be big enough to take the in the meeting and way wherever you wish but would this be fully prepared to put forward any referral based on the budget papers to the Committee to send to to a man cabinet the iPaq
all at the end of the meeting what would good pointer Councillor Brian yes out like to other subsequent that there are Members if you've got a name
and a referral to the PAC commit a from a shed in the church I've just put any refer which I'd like to put to the Committee and I read it out but it's also end the and chat area for Colly sake and upcoming and it also refers to name which connect smell seen before tonight's meeting then book coming budget report could the following information be included the impact of a proposed cut on the users of a service the impact of a proposed cut on the staff of a service the impact of the coat on the service over all and the cumulative impact of the coat on Alpay L as a whole and I'd like to propose that please check
thank you
not seconded by Councillor McKenna
Gallaher or Michelin
I'm sorry
the agreed on those dropped others proposal yet
before we agree of two additional questions that I'd like to add please
the Scrutiny to look at him
what other pathways have been explored and why was it decided that this was the most viable option
let us be noted get of you got those John
let them down cancer thank you and hopefully we can agree to add those because I think those are important once given that we've been asked to keep it to be more commercial we need to explore new pathways
in a in a more referrals
the normal comments on performance
but John
the Work Programme is on page 3 and live in of your gender packs
the main thing to note is in keeping originally on was that the budget cuts come back in January and said I'll be corporations to work programme and also the allocations policy review those shoots come to this committee her this this meeting where my body be circulated to her to Members as well but he still open to the committed bring back to a later meeting if it so chooses so the Members have any questions on anything else in the work programme yes case let me know
thank you done
if there is no member with an a comment on the work programme
I would request for the webcast to be ended