Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel - Tuesday, 25th February 2020 at 7:05pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel
Tuesday, 25th February 2020 at 7:05pm 

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Start of webcast
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  1. Cllr Bill Brown
  2. Cllr Bill Brown
1 Minutes
2 Declaration of Interests
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3 Outstanding Scrutiny Matters
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4 Open Item(s) - Decision by Mayor and Cabinet on 12 February 2020
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  1. Public Speaker
  2. Cllr Bill Brown
  3. Cllr Liam Curran
  4. Cllr Bill Brown
  5. Public Speaker
4 Open Item(s) - Decision by Mayor and Cabinet on 12 February 2020
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  1. Public Speaker
  2. Cllr Bill Brown
  3. Public Speaker
  4. Cllr Liam Curran
  5. Cllr Bill Brown
  6. Cllr Luke Sorba
  7. Public Speaker
  8. Cllr Bill Brown
  9. Public Speaker
  10. Cllr Bill Brown
  11. Jim Mallory
  12. Cllr Bill Brown
  13. Cllr Peter Bernards
  14. Public Speaker
  15. Cllr Bill Brown
  16. Cllr Bill Brown
  17. Cllr Juliet Campbell
  18. Public Speaker
  19. Cllr Bill Brown
  20. Cllr Liam Curran
  21. Cllr Bill Brown
  22. Cllr Liam Curran
  23. Cllr Bill Brown
  24. Cllr Liam Curran
  25. Cllr Bill Brown
  26. Cllr Liam Curran
  27. Cllr Bill Brown
  28. Public Speaker
  29. Public Speaker
  30. Cllr Bill Brown
  31. Public Speaker
  32. Cllr Luke Sorba
  33. Cllr Luke Sorba
  34. Cllr Bill Brown
  35. Public Speaker
  36. Cllr Bill Brown
  37. Public Speaker
  38. Cllr Bill Brown
  39. Public Speaker
  40. Cllr Bill Brown
  41. Cllr Liam Curran
  42. Public Speaker
  43. Cllr Bill Brown
  44. Public Speaker
  45. Cllr Patrick Codd
  46. Cllr Bill Brown
  47. Cllr Patrick Codd
  48. Cllr Bill Brown
  49. Cllr Patrick Codd
  50. Cllr Bill Brown
  51. Public Speaker
  52. Cllr Bill Brown
  53. Public Speaker
  54. Cllr Bill Brown
  55. Public Speaker
  56. Cllr Bill Brown
  57. Cllr Patrick Codd
  58. Public Speaker
  59. Cllr Patrick Codd
  60. Cllr Bill Brown
  61. Cllr Luke Sorba
  62. Public Speaker
  63. Cllr Luke Sorba
  64. Cllr Bill Brown
  65. Cllr John Muldoon
  66. Cllr Bill Brown
  67. Joan Millbank
  68. Cllr Bill Brown
  69. Public Speaker
  70. Cllr Bill Brown
  71. Public Speaker
  72. Cllr Bill Brown
  73. Cllr Liam Curran
  74. Cllr Bill Brown
  75. Public Speaker
  76. Cllr Bill Brown
  77. Cllr John Muldoon
  78. Cllr Bill Brown
  79. Public Speaker
  80. Cllr Liam Curran
  81. Public Speaker
  82. Cllr Bill Brown
  83. Public Speaker
  84. Cllr Bill Brown
  85. Cllr Luke Sorba
  86. Cllr Bill Brown
  87. Public Speaker
  88. Cllr Bill Brown
  89. Cllr Bill Brown
  90. Cllr Liam Curran
  91. Cllr Bill Brown
  92. Cllr Patrick Codd
  93. Cllr Bill Brown
  94. Public Speaker
  95. Cllr Patrick Codd
  96. Public Speaker
  97. Public Speaker
  98. Cllr Liam Curran
  99. Public Speaker
  100. Cllr Liam Curran
  101. Public Speaker
  102. Cllr Bill Brown
  103. Public Speaker
  104. Cllr Liam Curran
  105. Cllr Bill Brown
  106. Cllr Bill Brown
  107. Jim Mallory
  108. Cllr Bill Brown
  109. Jim Mallory
  110. Public Speaker
  111. Cllr Bill Brown
  112. Cllr Luke Sorba
  113. Cllr Bill Brown
  114. Cllr Luke Sorba
  115. Joan Millbank
  116. Public Speaker
  117. Cllr Luke Sorba
  118. Public Speaker
  119. Cllr Bill Brown
  120. Public Speaker
  121. Cllr Bill Brown
  122. Cllr Liam Curran
  123. Cllr Bill Brown
  124. Cllr Patrick Codd
  125. Public Speaker
  126. Cllr Bill Brown
  127. Joan Millbank
  128. Public Speaker
  129. Cllr Bill Brown
  130. Joan Millbank
  131. Joan Millbank
  132. Cllr Bill Brown
  133. Cllr Bill Brown
  134. Cllr Liam Curran
  135. Cllr Bill Brown
  136. Stephanie Fleck
  137. Cllr Bill Brown
  138. Public Speaker
5 Overview and Scrutiny Select Committee Work Programmes - 2019-2020
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  1. Cllr Bill Brown
  2. Jim Mallory
  3. Cllr Bill Brown
  4. Public Speaker
  5. Jim Mallory
  6. Cllr Bill Brown
  7. Cllr Bill Brown
  8. Cllr Luke Sorba
  9. Public Speaker
  10. Cllr Bill Brown
  11. Cllr Juliet Campbell
  12. Cllr Bill Brown
  13. Webcast Finished

Cllr Bill Brown - 0:00:00
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:00:01
could I'm could someone close thank you
pre-empted
welcome
can I kinda welcome everybody to tonight's business Panel got a packed agenda tonight
which will try and get through in good time
a firstly of the minutes

1 Minutes

is everybody happy the minutes is anything to weigh any matters arising from the minutes any points any colleagues wish to raise if not can we agree they are a fair representation of the last meeting all agreed agreed thank you

2 Declaration of Interests

thank you very much judgment Declaration of interests as anybody who has got an interest to declare
finally the tonight's items now

3 Outstanding Scrutiny Matters

we have a Item 3 outstanding scrutiny items to Norton Leicester's any points to be made by colleagues if not
this will bring a straight on to 87 which will address no decisions made by Mayor and Cabinet on the 12th February
what I'd like to do like a normally do in these situations these items were specifically requested by Councillor Curran
who knows a prepared
to address them saw less as any other points are comments from colleagues I'd like to hand over to Councillor current I'm to start a the first budget update which is with David Austin
so of David can come to the table first hello David
so good to see you I on your own
yeah let's go low that's its said If I'm

4 Open Item(s) - Decision by Mayor and Cabinet on 12 February 2020

councillor T. rex very welcome
she is looking for a PI Arthur OK
i'm
OK
before asked Liam of any points that a anything you want to raise before Liam goals injuries questions as any think from David all Amanda
Public Speaker - 0:02:09
happy to take any questions or limped
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:02:11
OK in that case I'll hand over to Liam thank humiliate
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:02:15
her care home work just one to two a asked specifically was I'm if you could just give us a couple of headline figures I'm what's the most significant parts of the budget which if it's in its another year of austerity and we've heard today the terrible impact of austerity on
a longevity of people in this country is actually going backwards so we need to know as I'm Councillors which services are gonna suffer and also I'm or if
some colleagues have suggested that we are in trouble with the budget and it could go to I can't remember what I'm section it is an obviously David you know this but you know if the government has to step in and it's a section 41 or something like that it is there any possibility
that's probably it
one of those one of those who would do I'm but I know that you know what you're talking about I doubt but and I just wondered because you know I heard it from a couple of people I'm but I just wanted some reassurance that you know we are not in any danger of having an early or a serious deficit thank you
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:03:38
before ask for David and Amanda dancer any other colleagues have any questions at this point a because we'll take them at the same time if not I'm David Amanda for over two
Public Speaker - 0:03:55
okay I'm I may not get all the numbers but I'll give you some numbers I hope that the ones that are interesting I'm the
the main number I think is that the general fund budget has been set at
Page 201
how did a minute ago 248 million 700 thousand pounds
that's the net General Fund budget
that is set reliant on business rates and council tax in the main
in terms of the council tax element the specific numbers of increases
which
will include the GLA element which this updated and confirmed and the Local government Finance Settlement was agreed by parliament last night so these numbers are the final numbers which is good ahead of the Budget tomorrow or Council

4 Open Item(s) - Decision by Mayor and Cabinet on 12 February 2020

and we are increasing the council element by 3 point 9 9 percent one point 9 9 percent which is the core without needing to trigger a referendum and the 2 percent numbers I mean this is an update reports
Public Speaker - 0:04:57
they're not all in here but
the capital programme which is a over the next three years just over 450 million pounds that significantly more than we've done for some years and principally relates to the housing programme and the new build
of supply consistent with the corporate strategy to build 500 new homes in this administration
so you would expect to see those numbers
the school's numbers are slightly down there not final because they depend on the January census but
schools funding while it's gone up slightly our roles have decreased a little I'm so on balance the numbers are slightly lower than last year
that not directly challenges Corbett his death for the Council but is definitely a challenge for the schools and they'll have to manage that because if they've got falling numbers of children and their budgets will just accordingly
in respect of the Housing Revenue account
in addition
to the significant elements of the capital part of that there are the changes around rents
which are going up by CPI plus 1 percent CPI being the consumer Price Index inflation measure which has measured I think of as at September is one point 7 percent plus 1 is that those rents will go up by 2 points 7 percent that follows the four year freeze that government lifted this year
and these are probably the main the main numbers in terms of
which services are being cut and which services are being pressures are being funded they're not in this report there in the Budget report but
the cuts were those that were scrutinised and agreed
and confirmed in October last year it here and it Marion cabinet and then
they total 16 point 6 million and there in one of the appendices and detailed in the budget report there are also 90 million pounds of pressures being funded so that offset some of the cuts it's not a like for like and because there were some budget to needs resetting there are some pressures that have been growing and demand areas and I've been prioritised but that's been through a review and these are also set out in the main budget report so those or where to find those changes and then in respect of your question around reserves effectively and as the Council on a sound financial footing it's in the Section 25 Statement that is in the Budget update report that is the statement that has to cover
whether or not there is a risk of an issue of a Section 1 1 4 neighbours which would be me in a professional capacity in consultation with the Monitoring Officer and the Head of Paid Service if I felt that the Council wasn't a going concern
I would need to have a conversation with them and issue that notice I'm not issuing that notice nor do I believe the finances suggest or the reserves position suggest we are close to being in that position at this time
and that set out the reasons for that decision are in the Section 25 Statement so I hope that answers your questions
OK to do any of that
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:08:02
study Amanda sorry can I just add because I think the I'm the thrust of what
Public Speaker - 0:08:05
a Liam is talking about is obviously the there have been a couple of stories in the news a 1 this morning I'm where they were talking about the long-term health outcomes for people have been severely impacted by I'm austerity and that the
average age of living I think has is a sprawling I'm in the last 10 years which I think that the person who'd written the report called shocking I'm which I think we agree was absolutely shocking that in a modern a country of this
scale of wealth that we would be have we would have fallen life expectancy is is really extraordinary and then of course there was last week's story which was the number of suicides that are linked to universal credit I'm also shocking so I absolutely I'm I absolutely understand the spirit of the inquiry I'm there have been a number of measures published recently which we have discussed i'm more broadly
showing that the Council is
amongst its peers in terms of financial resilience that we do have enough reserves to two to be certain that we are an ongoing concern and I think that that CIPFA has I'm has published a number of tables recently and we are kind of smack bang in the middle with medium to low risk now obviously we have used our reserves in the last couple of years to balance out overspends in children's and young people's services and particularly in children's social care
but again we're not alone in that 90 percent of councils have overspent on children's social care in the last couple of years and you know we have done what we can to protect front line services and in in
on a number of occasions now we've had to use our reserves but I think that is what reserves are for and when we need to do it we well we are hoping that this budget
in this Budget period 19
21 two thousand twenty 21 sorry that we will that we will not have to use reserves to balance the budget but with demand increasing funding falling there is always there is always the possibility that we will that we will have to do that but we are very much hoping not to
thank you very much for that and I'm there is one other question I had
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:10:48
it occurred to me as walking here I'm was that a
we're talking about the Council being more entrepreneurial and raising income and it's something we often raise I raised here and others have and at the Sustainable Development Committee and I want to know can you identify any a areas where where owning land that can generate income for the Council are we considering buying more land to do that or any other income generation schemes other than increasing charges for services
at the source speaking on you because I would have given you an advanced but it just occurred service as Woking here
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:11:28
a before we as a reminder
if you take looks question as well look
a thank you Chair so as reading thinking about the long term health
Cllr Luke Sorba - 0:11:38
financial health of the Council and
one of the effects of leaving the European Union may be I'm a shortage of adult social care staff and whenever the labour supply contracts ways you'd usually go up although that
historically were in a period where there has always happened
I'm I was wondering whether any thought been given in the long term to perhaps
bringing adult social care in house so that there is a saving in that the only cost would be the employees and not the a profit margins that the I'm agencies
Need you Now in order to be viable businesses that is there is there a financial case perhaps or is it time to start in the research I'm to then see a saving expressed in the area over the next couple of years
the entrepreneurial I'm question is interesting it's been
Public Speaker - 0:12:40
followed up
I'm extensively by pack and particularly in this last year old or two and we are about to start I'm
some training for two kinds of Dermot developer more commercial mindset for staff which is interesting which Packers pack had been very involved in doing this scoping work for that I'm I will let a let David answer the question as well but
just to say that one of the one of the strands that we have been working on a Catherine nid obviously leads on quite a lot of this work in terms of I'm income generation we've been really working on
helping the Council departments to to understand their full fees and charges for the work the full cost of the work that they do because actually it's a part of the part of an element of financial grip that is very very important for us as a Council and some of that work has come through on this budget and there is an increased an increase of fees and charges which isn't kind of sexy an entrepreneurial but it is actually part of rigour and discipline which is very important so that when we understand those costs we can benchmark against other councils and what they charge for those kinds of services and that that helps us to understand whether were an outlier or whether we were were in the middle
and so although it's not as I say it's not very sexy piece of work actually it's really really important to have that regard if you're going to have a commercial mindset you need to understand what your cost so we have also done other element other streams of work so well with the environmental division where trying to set up a different way of accounting so that again they can understand it can be a bit more fleet of foot and see see their charges and costs which will hopefully help them to be I'm more commercial in their in them a way of thinking as well
but
I will let David talk to that to
okay I'm so on the commercial point are we using land try down to them not necessarily in a purely commercial sense because the land we hold we are trying to divert or direct towards supporting the housing target and the work in that space I'm where we are acquiring things or where we're sharing some of our land with others it's to unlock and develop housing supply in the main now some of that will include elements that will be
38 for sale or for private rent and they may generate money but that money is being used to offset the cost of providing a greater proportion of social housing so in that sense it's commercial but it's with the social value return rather than a pure financial return
the other thing I'd note is over the last three years at least in every one of those years a third of the cuts have actually been income generating rather than cut costs reducing now in part that remains why we've had some other spending pressures because you can control when you cut cost it's a lot harder to control and generate the income but that ambition given the in each of the last three years it's been at least a 10 million pound year and one year at least over 20 that's not an insignificant income target that we've been setting ourselves year on year to grow so that we are being supported by the training of the development or in week we've got further to go
we are approaching those opportunities and we are looking for somewhere where we can
on the financial Health question
around Adult social care
as part of the Brexit preparations all services had to do risk assessments and this is one of the dimensions of the risk assessment that was considered actually in the buildup through to December and January don't believe Tom can step in at any point if he wishes I don't believe through those risk assessments we saw any
significant loss of staffing or concerns in Lewisham that's not to say it hasn't necessarily happened elsewhere and in terms of whether or not it would be
better or easier to have it in house
that work is ongoing it is being looked at
however I think it's also fairly well known that profit margins in the care sector aren't really the issue given that the market itself is failing and it's because a number of those companies are going bust and can't do it for the prices councils are paying for the places so
it is one that we are exploring but it is not an easy profits for pay transfer in that sense I made a really challenging market in itself so that that is quite a complex question but it is one that we're looking at
this will say there's been a you might know that I'm
that the I'm
the government has got really worried about local councils going on investing in property
and that there's been that were
because I think
it's been an answer that lots of councils have a chart tried to have looked at is buying property and then trying to charge commercial rents against it and trying to in invest in it and
and that that's what level led to the
rate hike in that from the public Works Loan Board I'm and there's a story in the MJ today six point 6 billion alarm bells over 6 point 6 billion property spending spree and then there's a the article over the pages Treasury set to gain 80 million from TEEP P W L bees rate hike
so they've
they've acted against Local Councils and
a nice little bonus for the Treasury in the process
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:18:53
Public Speaker - 0:18:54
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:18:56
thanks Amanda I've got gym and Peter and Juliet indicating to speak
I just wanted to say that if there is any point any refer as back on any of the agent's tonight will address them all together at the end so if anything does come to mind if we can
keep that in your thoughts and will address it at the end of the meeting are there any other colleagues although the new 3 of just named her would also like to be asking a question if not will take these three and then we'll move on to the next item
a gym
Jim Mallory - 0:19:33
I wasn't going to say anything will be disappointed to hear I now find I am going to say something in part because this was all considered at pack at the last meeting and I did invite other Chairs to attend I'm and are partly because it was a wrap up of the Budget and we hadn't had an opportunity partly because of the election to do so beforehand so just just on a couple of issues and the one I do want to take too much of our time so just on the issue
of reserves we have had a pretty thorough ongoing review of reserves over the year a over the past couple of years and notwithstanding the intermittent interventions of Councillor Maslen I'm we have largely satisfied ourselves that the Council is in a relatively healthy position as Amanda lined with a David I can remember and the comparison with with other boroughs and and had I had an opportunity as I had hoped to slaughter the Lib Dem question the other day a would have an answer to that being able to a to say a bit more about it but Council questions nobody ever reads the answer to the question but they listen to the follow up I'm so I'm not sure people did read A the HRA to the slightly differing replies that amount and I gave a two hour a Liberal Democrat friend who had planted the question I'm the other thing I did want to say something about I'm was the whole issue of income generation because while it's clear that I'm the main source in the first instance is putting up fees and charges we've been fairly I'm wide ranging and looking at other ways of doing it and we looked at a couple of boroughs a other boroughs one Barking and Dagenham who have an enormous amount of existing land I'm and a adopted a big bang approach of a
well the word might
might be out source but they have certainly I'm set up a companies in which they have a more limited a says and we were I think wish to have and we're not in that position of owning an enormous amount of land from which we would derive considerable income in a way that perhaps a Greenwich had a in years gone by but we did look at Waltham Forest who I'm have adopted quite an enterprising approach and because they have the same demographic and similar amounts of land that we do we would see as being a more interesting parallel and we have suggested that there is scope for looking at ways and the particular example they give of the journey they've taken is to to set up a a handyman Sir service from which they would then they would provide a handyman service or other parts of the Council and four other other than for the borough more generally I'm and that journey has taken them through to being able to provide a service for Adult social Care in both a money saving and Service improving Way so there are ways enterprising ways of looking at things I'm and we have had a level of commitment from a the Cabinet Member for Resources that a we will get I don't mean we being pack I mean that I'm the a the continuing a pro progress on a income generation will have a certain proportion of the transformation budget devoted to it in order to support a new new and dare I say innovative way can I hate that phrase new and innovative ways of looking at income generation thank you Chair
thanks Jim Peter
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:23:26
yes my question is about a
Cllr Peter Bernards - 0:23:32
how rent increases under David mentioned two figures of 1 percent until point 7 percent
or the law
I loved come across those figures I mean the to point 7 percent in particular a on also obviously the council tax going up three points 9 9 percent
A R view looked on him park I'm having assessed the impact on this a race going up small tenuously
a given that
those reports of a increased suicide a
or on a people Universal credit and how this might impact the community at large who are struggling in their rent or some stuff
thanks Peter I will just take the final question
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:24:25
Public Speaker - 0:24:25
from Juliet on this subject
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:24:27
K thank you Chair and my question is I'm going to go back about their
Cllr Juliet Campbell - 0:24:33
reserves and I'm we know that there is an increase in demand and funding is falling and you've already said that you know where we're not
we're not the bottom in terms of using our reserves
but really what I'm concerned about is how much longer can we rely on using reserves to make sure that we meet our budgets because we're not putting any more money back in that part and it's not bottomless
I don't think there was a reply to Councillor Mallory I'm
Public Speaker - 0:25:09
in terms of the rental figures apology I break it down essentially what I was saying around housing rents is there going up by 2 points 7 percent which is CPI plus 1 percent so the rent the rental increase will be two points on percent next year on or on all rents
both housing and hospitals
in respect of the Council Tax amount
the reasons and the approach were set out in the main budget report as opposed to the Budget update and I'm do relate to how the Council can fund that service and maintain its funding levels are at a level
that it needs and also the risk that if we don't do it in the year the opportunity is there there is no way of ever catching it up to where effectively then setting a rate indefinitely at a lower level than we could I'm yes there are always risks in terms of wider
financial pressures on on people who are due there are certain discretions and discounts that apply if people have those and there are hardship funds are around this as well
but there is no direct correlation or piece of work that we do to link Universal credit to council tax the council tax decisions taken in the round on the base
on the reserves point how long can they last very much depends on
how long and how well we identified the cuts that are necessary to set a balanced budget
because you only need to use reserves if we're not balancing the budget
and to date we have always broadly and found the cuts we needed to and implemented so on that basis it's indefinite I mean certainly never the case of will do nothing
although there is always the rest that we fall a little bit short as they have done in previous years because it's taking a little bit longer to find the full cuts or even though we think we've found them it takes a little bit longer to actually fully deliver them and that's the space in which we've been using reserves
to date Yes they have gone down a little I'm over the last six years on average they have gone down by about three and a half million pounds a year i'm not well that's how much we've used to set the Budget sorry on that basis it would be 20 odd years but these numbers aren't fixed because they are all dependent on understanding the financial envelope we're trying to live with them and the progress we are making our identifying agreeing the cuts with yourselves to to get to that point if we do those things and better them then we won't be using the reserves and potentially we could rebuild them so
can be longer
thank you for David thank you Amanda a we'll move on to the next item which is
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:27:56
sorry so
there's a couple of things and I would like to put forward a
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:28:03
recommendation and explain why
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:28:10
as I said just a little while ago will look at each item at the end of the meat rather than after each atrium will look for recommendations will look at the end of the five items will have the discussion about if there's any action as we want to take our recommendations
if I might be so bold it slightly complicated and interwoven with
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:28:29
other items and I'd like to get the point across now if I may
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:28:39
other at the of that for items that we haven't discussed yet
Watch Watch which were
why are we
so
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:28:57
but this is pertinent to watch just been discussed
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:28:58
O'Reilly folk you appreciate that I'm
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:29:04
the treaty wealth building strategy is pointing out that the
a something I've been saying for a very long time there is a lack of accurate data on assets and land holdings this is from consultants Claisse serious that we engaged to provide a report on how to build community wealth and they're telling us this and a we don't have a digital asset register sufficiently competent to provide a separate data one of the things connected with that brought about the I'm commercial use of land that we hold for example you have said that their up a situations where councils by Land and get into trouble but obviously there's a right way to do something in the wrong way to do something so that's the first point secondly we are lots of other people are making money out of land in Lewisham are still say this why can't we especially as a freeholder in the appropriate place for example talking about the future now as well as I'm say Ladywell the old lady well PAS sites that five year housing projects typically coming to an end would probably be building hopefully hundreds of homes for people on there but
normally the development in
in other developments you have a supermarket or a major retail outlets or several a underneath and they are paying for this and someone's making money out of it so I just wanted to make that point that that's what I'm really getting at how do we make money and it might be that we need to employ somebody who is a who is an expert who that sort of raw or not there may be one or two in the Council so that's what I was trying to get it in connection with the next item
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:30:59
thankfully a does obando David wouldn't have any comments to that a point from Councillor Cohen
i'm
W we do have Asset registers and you can view them and
Public Speaker - 0:31:09
we have an accounting one and we have a physical one but just to be able to do our
operations and maintenance work in terms of the required preventative statutory preventative maintenance whether we have to so we do have those things that we do have registered or what we hold
our I will be the first to admit they're not the easiest to navigate and it's not something we can send to you as a discrete file but that can be shared and discussed
with the property Team
there's a paper council tomorrow night which is around strengthening the focus on regeneration in place which is a lot about also what business occupation there may be in the borough
so that expertise in focuses is is there already but it's being strengthened which I think is your your point and then just going back to the point also made areas
where we might do housing schemes and they have commercial elements that that's part of the scheme in the round and that meant that income is part of what we put towards ensuring that we get as much social into so we are being commercial that we're choosing to use that commercial focus more to support the social delivery rather than the pure financial if we do get an appeal financial that's when we start to get into potentially the challenge of the A review and the other comments have been made around them borrowing and so forth
so I can't have a necessary a pure commercial strategy but we can have a regeneration and Place Strategy and we can balance it with the other drivers we've got for use of land on which we are doing
and
Public Speaker - 0:32:44
so basically if some of the part of Claire's has five pillars and one of their pillars is the use of
land owned by Surrey
to Drake House verges and the jargon
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:32:59
OK but it's the Centre for Local economic
Public Speaker - 0:33:03
the Sergeant shops you chose this as a point of order
Cllr Luke Sorba - 0:33:11
i'm we I can see why we've done this but we appear to have
drifted into Item 7
because the CLS report is part of item 7 and the reason it's pertinent is I'm not sure whether I should withhold any contributions to when we are actually on that item or join in now chair
as I'll tell you on either
what
Cllr Luke Sorba - 0:33:39
I'll tell you know you'll wait until the next item when Fiona Colley
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:33:41
will be the next witness in this is just a fatal comment from Amanda and there would be saying thank you to David Amanda
and basically
you know we brought
Public Speaker - 0:33:54
we bought a Clare's in because the Centre for lankelly commit strategy
because they do very interesting work they have quite a broad lens and they they had a broad loca what the Council is doing in this area they found us
their report was really positive they engaged really positively with us and they found out our work to be surprisingly good in this area part of what they talked to us about was amplifying the message that we are actually doing really good work in this area and there is work underway just to the specific point about and using land and assets differently there is there is work underway which Councillor Slater's leading on a can't remember the group that he is working with but there is a kind of community wealth building voluntary sector organisation which is basically looking at how we as a Council use our property assets to benefit from the voluntary sector and he is I can't remember the name of the group because
I don't worry
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:35:15
been directly involved in it but that work is underway separately
Public Speaker - 0:35:17
and I think also just to say that we have invested in property we bought the shopping centre and we bought the shopping centre for four
really very good price On balance however I happen to have a conversation with Hackney who were thinking of buying a property sent a proper shopping centre in Hackney they were looking at paying 75 million for this
so in order to take over me generator so I think that you are on a different you in a different scale it's a much more difficult commercials decision to make and yes absolutely we would absolutely get external expertise but but we didn't pay anything like that for hours and and you know we bought it as a strategic investment in order to regenerate kapfer which was a decision we all supported
I've got a wonderful idea
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:36:15
what a wonderful idea whilst we can't say thank you to David and welcome to Fiona would have Amanda wishes to remain than she's welcome to do so thank you David
welcome Fiona
as with
the beginning of this item is anything in advance that you want to highlight or point out you're happy for just go straight into questions etc.
I think Councillor Pryke has already
said that I was going to say interruption
Public Speaker - 0:36:41
thank you I'm again
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:36:48
we've got Councillor Curran who will lead off on this or any other colleagues at this stage would like to indicate we've got Councillor card
do we have any one else at this stage OK Liam
thank you Chair
Cllr Liam Curran - 0:37:06
now wrote the I'm close report with great interest
and encouragement I just really wanted to see some
there's a report
and we often see reports and theories and this and that so I am really want to get a picture of when is it
when is it going to happen what's gonna happen when you see benefits accruing to us as a community
thank you Councillor Carter what it will take paths question a first as well
Public Speaker - 0:37:38
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:37:38
thank you for a
Public Speaker - 0:37:43
Cllr Patrick Codd - 0:37:46
Mike might go on a bit here I'll try not to
yeah I was really interested in the report I thought it was very interesting I particularly did home in on the
socially productive use of land and assets because like Councillor Khan I do think we could be doing more with our assets
and and I note that at the last meeting of pack we have indicated were going to
be looking at I'm
all land and property Strategy over the next year and I think that's related to this i'm
I did think
while we are already doing stuff so are probably already benefiting to answer Councillor Curran's question
to some extent I'm
I think that's the area where we could probably do more and I just wonder what you thought about that and how realistic is that and secondly I did think that it had some criticisms of the club's report actually and I wondered what you thought to I think they missed I think it talked too much about the poverty in the borough and I used to be sorry that sounds a bit odd but
I used to be a bank manager in Catford and Catford had I think the second most amount of
credit mummy ii customers with lots of money that they deposited with the bank than
in any other branch in London or think
Lewisham is full of people with a property that they own outright and a lot of cash in the bank
as well as a lot of poor people and I think that we could be doing far more as a borough through the work of people like a Rushey Green Timebank and people like that The Third Sector generally to encourage the wealthy people of our Borough to invest in the borough and in in things that are happening in the borough and this report doesn't really talk about that so particularly on the I'm
On I'm the credit Union
a and we've had failures of credit unions and things like that I think to get to two to be two to sell the credit unions to people with money and demonstrate how they could be benefiting
the borough's a whole Wood would be in others a real asset out there in the Borough Lathones lots of people who would be willing to support
a really
big open approach to this from the borough you know and that's why I think the first point of Claire's make which is that we're doing it already were not so we're not saying we are I think that's where we would get a lot of benefits if you know if we really start to 2 to promote its I just be interested in your response to that thank you
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:40:48
thank you pack them was that the could branch in Catford was it K
Cllr Patrick Codd - 0:40:55
it was Midland Bank Catford now HSBC in that was 20 a five years ago
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:41:00
but you know that it's not changed much I can't believe it lets us
Cllr Patrick Codd - 0:41:01
that other girl feeling
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:41:03
among thank you thank you Councillor Brown first in in relation to
Public Speaker - 0:41:07
Council of currants question I think really you have identified the knob all of what we feel we need to do next so the close rapport as a Council card as highlighted really did recognise some very good work or a duty doing it made some quite practical suggestions of particularly ways in which we could take the Lewisham deal work forward but in a lot of areas it raised ideas but it didn't give us those tangible things that we could take forward and on considering the report we felt it was really useful I wouldn't say quite conversation starter because we are a long way along the conversation but a report that we needed to we wanted to publish we wanted to know but that we wanted to do more detailed work on I think in particular we haven't had a great deal of public debate about some of the suggestions that are in the report with not had a proper opportunity to come to to Select Committee are we haven't got those practical applications things aren't costed where some of the ideas are put forward are and so at this stage what Mayor and Cabinet had agreed to do is to note are the RUC the work and report and then to take that forward in particular through our development over the next couple of months of the new inclusive growth and innovation strategy which you'll recall we had some conversations about in at September's Sustainable Development Committee but also through some other pieces of work
for instance a big action for us to do straightaway to make sure that we share this report with Lucian deal partners are and start debating those ideas are and the piece of work that's been identified the land or property Strachey some areas that need to go to regeneration and so
what we need to do next we have appointed term actually Clare's alongside a PRD to help us as we further develop the inclusive further growth strategy are they just starting their work now and I'm very much hoping Councillor current if you have space on your agendas that will be able to come to Sustainable Development Committee ideally both at the beginning and towards the end of that development that strategy to really start to flesh out those ideas both the ones that are contained in this report but also I think some of the wider issues that Members have raised both at your Committee I think at the Odeon scrutiny interview that Councillor drove me was at quite a number of Members were raising some of the wider issues and I think I recall your Committee that I can't move which Council it was talked about perhaps actually we should be focusing on attracting big anchor businesses rather than perhaps the smaller approach I think there is a debate to be had so too were in the midst of process so I say at this stage unfortunate can't quite answer your question because we haven't got to that point but we do have a time frame now are as a say or our advisers have started work were hoping to get those some workshops and sessions to happen some in March as a little problem of course with there not being so many public meetings in in April but then to come back with a draft thrashed again in May and June hoping to get that fully agreed on this side of the summer recess is or is our timeline because I agree we need practical applications has lots of lovely ideas I am not sure I quite have my head around what a plural and democratic economy means in practice which that really looked like What's it cost so so is a good deal more work to do and and if with your agreement I would like us to come along to Sustainable Development Committee to explore that further are
and likewise those those Crisci I agree I I think there's this opportunity and excitement I was thinking you're going to talk about the economy in Lewisham you should be optimistic and upbeat
an ambitious and grasp those are those
opportunities are
think Council derided and
two
yes I think that I'm
when I think that what
the what
Clare's recognised was
that is a huge
amount of work has already been done here which can of came out of the Lewisham poverty Commission which I know Members were very involved in and which have come out which have been set further extended standard by the Lewisham deal work where we are working with I'm our key anchors institutions in one of the one of the recommendations from Clare's was would be that we would try and expand that work with the anchor institutions outwards or may be try and work in a more a sub-regional way but obviously Clare's are used to working with with councils that have not even started any of this community welfare and work and also in regions are for example Preston where there is a much clearer and geographical cried boundary where the Council really is the key employer in the area and we are obviously
just one of the employers but I mean I think that we are so much of the work that we're proud of has come out of it comes under this umbrella like the London living wage the work that we've done with our apprentices we signed off 500 apprentice onto them Mayors apprentice scheme recently I'm the
bringing some of this key services in house I'm and working with our anchor institutions to two to put on Meet the buyer events you know where we are trying to make them make it possible for small for Inner small and medium sized businesses to work with us to understand our procurement we've we've signed the modern slavery charter you know that there are a number of things which I think when you see a shopping list of things that you could do to to extend the work it's easy to forget actually how much we've already done and that does still require officer work and time to to keep keep those and you know
to keep for example the apprenticeships coming in through the door and and am making them a viable of making that apprenticeship scheme a viable scheme
so you know I think yes there is work to do I don't have any I don't have any sense of a the banking side of this had been involved in a number of discussions
about a pan London bank
i'm but
people keep talking about setting it up and then it doesn't really look very viable in reality and we have invested in the credit Union quite significantly and we may well want to keep investing in the credit Union but I don't have a sense obviously I don't have your experience Councillor card of of
peering at people's balances on their bank accounts
I do I OK no I don't I don't add
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:48:40
Public Speaker - 0:48:41
bugs Amanda not not private it privy to those details but I am sure we
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:48:42
do have wealthy residents that like to support us
Public Speaker - 0:48:47
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:48:49
thanks before I ask Councillor Sobel's indicated to ask a question or lead councillor card come back but before I do that or any other colleagues which to indicate at this point Councillor Muldoon and your colleagues on this item
yeah thanks I suppose all I was really saying was
Cllr Patrick Codd - 0:49:05
this
some of the credit unions often by credit unions rather than a new bank and I do like the idea of of extending credit unions small businesses because this is about community resilience and I am when I'm saying is if we are very open about this strategy is what Lewisham council is doing it gives us the opportunity to appeal to the people with money in the borough to help their neighbours that's what I'm saying so you know the way you get a good credit union is you get people who are trying to save as well as people who need to borrow and that's just you know on when it are often the failures come because the only people who get involved all the people who want to borrow I'm and it needs it needs to be well run but it needs to have lots of money and then small businesses can perhaps borrow from it and I think
Public Speaker - 0:50:03
that is money in the borough of Lewisham that we can we can use grabs
the man to spearhead that campaign
thank you
Cllr Patrick Codd - 0:50:13
look
Thatcher are given a
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:50:17
Cllr Luke Sorba - 0:50:20
council costs description of his banker I'm surprised there hasn't been some kind of Guy Ritchie heist movie set in Catford I'm
I seem to be set elsewhere
so
I'm sure that's true
I was I was impressed by the list that
Amanda gave of practical things as Councillors doing a lot less impressed with the executive summary of this report which seems to be
rather the sort of vague and aspirational I mean I am a member of the Writers' Guild but when it says the Lewisham council is well on its way to forging its own community wealth building story I wouldn't know how to write that one
and I also find
the ambition within the plural and democratic ownership of the economy section
where it says
lurched from Council should try and create an economy where there are more estimates more municipally owned companies and enterprises owned by workers which can include cooperatives I mean it sounds like the manifesto for the labour movement
its 19th century I would love to achieve those those aims as a member of that Labour movement
but I wasn't the random nature century but so maybe several my values were
I am
I'm just not impressed by this I'm impressed by you but not by this I it says that
Lewisham's ability to make we could make fundamental and lasting change in the local economy
but if it doesn't tell us how I'm not sure whether we should be employing Sibelius to do the next phase of research it seems to me that if they have been able to come up with it maybe we should ask someone else to look at it the the very real dilemma that Pat outlined
Public Speaker - 0:52:18
Cllr Luke Sorba - 0:52:20
is a national one there is so much wealth in bricks and mortar but it's trapped in property in which people live and it can't be released into the economy especially when some of those residents are worried that as they become poorer supports become older and more ill they may need to release equity to look after their care
I am I just can't see what how Lewisham council can practically get closer to some of the aims in this report
thanks to look we'll have Councillor Millner escorts Limal do and Councillor Millbank in then if we can be part just a couple of quick
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:52:55
Cllr John Muldoon - 0:52:57
questions not a speech and the a reference by the Cabinet Member see working with Anchor employers because we are a large exporter of workers everyday
do we have a robust industrial strategy my second question about our can the Member talks about
looking at subregional issues look very very
sub-regionally in Lucerne itself how many business Improvement Districts authoring Lewisham
thanks junk Councillor Millbank
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:53:31
Cedar Close some of my colleagues at the table about this report
Joan Millbank - 0:53:39
because I actually think you have to kind of get people to be excited to raise expectations though I completely take on board people's points this is it is just slightly but it's actually what's the practical implementation of this and I think that's what gets going but I think you do it as a bit of a vision and I was just really just wanted to make the point picking up on Councillor codepoint earlier because I think there is potentially a lot of potential within Lewisham to kind of harness not just timescales energy but also money and that's the philosophy of the Lewisham local initiative which is part of the London given scheme is exactly about that it's the Rushey Green Timebanks delivering the bid for the Council on behalf of infrastructure support to the third sector but there is a lot of I think a lot of willingness we know this just an introductory work we've been doing and I think if we can find with the credit union is such a classic example I don't I have enjoyed a toilet Union shameful really I don't need to borrow money from the credit union backer put money into it and I think you are absolutely right I think we focused on the borrowing side of things we hadn't picked it up and said actually this is a way to bring social equality into our into our borough and actually we you know that's one very small little but I think really practical really achievable and if people knew about that more people would do so
could it be a task and finish group in the future don't know am over
Cllr Bill Brown - 0:54:55
to Fyodor and Amanda
I think that
you know you will remember that around
Public Speaker - 0:55:04
the time of the last election there was a lot of excitement and talk about the Preston model
and Clare's were
very involved in working with with Preston two two
I mean you know literally to improve the resilience of the local economy and that was they found a number of ways to keep spending Local said to keep their Preston Pound in Preston and that and that a lot of that a lot of that work centred around procurement so trying to procure locally to keep contractual spend
in the local geographic area which then meant that a and also finding ways to employ locally which would keep wages Local which were keep spending local which would keep high streets in so that the idea being that if there was a very virtuous circle and that practically any intervention in that circle cycle would be positive and beneficial and
we you know quite quietly luge Lewisham I think had a number of different work streams that were that that were formed with the same intention
and that had had similar effects however does the sub region is that the position is more complicated we are an exporter of of employees
and and we don't have any of those lodge a large industrial or large
businesses that really really we can harness that their procurement what we have is anchor institutions like Goldsmiths like the hospital I'm like our schools and so what we wanted to do when we when we talked to Clare's when we first thought of speaking to press was in a way to test ourselves against that model so we didn't really know how we were going to how we were going to come out in that Test and I think as I have said already we were really pleased to find that
that they said there weren't all these amazingly obvious things that they felt they could suggest to us because in fact in lots of ways would either we diva considered and rejected or things were too complicated or we would look at them but that wasn't like that wasn't like there were obvious things that we just simply hadn't thought of for example a
Peter suggested a number of years ago to me that we think about having our own employment agency when we were members of the housing or select committee together that something we are looking at actively now because Kent has has done has set up its own
employment agency sometimes these things take a while to really Research and really think about and and so this test with Claire's this report is almost a quick and dirty report and then some then workstreams will come out of it we will consider it we will it will come scrutiny we will we will take a view on what is useful in it and and what isn't
I I think you're right Joan in terms of saving with the credit unions I think sometimes the simplicity of those ideas actually do escape this and I think that
that's something that we should consider as part of our I'm Comms and thank you for raising it path I think it would be really useful part if you could if you could be I'm involved in further discussions but that's something that you know we are asking through through Comms where asking for local families to become local foster carers you know a very simple ask is if you've got some savings would you please consider investing them in the credit Union and I think that something that we we do need to part of that circularity is also going back to the community and asking them to help us and that's their Wigham the Wigan Deal is actually saying Look will do this for you but would you please help us with that and I think you know foster caring saving the credit Union inner that she felt that we can ask
I don't have answers to your question John
thank you for asking them or we are I'm not sure it's
I would love to have a robust industrial strategy and I will would like to have some improvement districts but
I know we do yeah and but I think that we
they you know we've got a local plan coming forward that will have a an industrial component within it and I do think it's something we need to give some thought to I'm
I think you know
that there is an investment in the future and in the strategy and we should wish to give it further thought so I would welcome any further comments from you on that in the future in due course and you have nothing whatsoever
yes on a few of those points I know I would agree Council writing so already said I thought there were some areas of the report where it needed considerable further development the plural Neknominate up plus some democratic economy was was particularly one of those where I wasn't seeing what were the practical applications how would we make anything actually happen and we need to do some more work however I did think Close were very strong in number of other areas I note we are an open sessions I won't go into too much detail about our choice to appoint them through the tender but I would know that they are not are alone in that partnership it was a joint bid are and they have a partner who is bringing smother strengths to that piece of work
on the on Council Muldoon I agree or as as some cancer dreich has highlighted the the new Local Plan will have some elements of arm industrial focus and that draws on as the new inclusive economy Strategy will do are Local economic Assessment work that was done last year are identifying some the strengths and weaknesses in our economy and some of those key sector areas for growth will also be drawing on the central London forward inclusive growth strategy that seeks to identify I think pretty much all across central London people talk about the opportunities and creative and digital industries in particular are we've recently in would just about having completed a Gap analysis and some swapped work looking at where we are lacking in policy areas that should be completed soon be happy to share that with you when we have that and that will form part of the basis of the of the development of the Smashie going forward one of the strands that we be particularly exploring are as we develop the the new economic strategy is Sector and enterprise and innovation so I hope that we will be able to pick up a lot of those themes about water or opportunities here in Lewisham for for growing or our business base
that's very much our ambition in that stretches to identify those and and some those practical actions that we can take to help make that happen on UMP beads yes it is I think it's a tricky one isn't it because I know you've raised this question quite a number of times certainly just over the last year that I have been here that we don't have any and to my knowledge we don't in many cases even have a lot of very strong localised business associations either and I wonder I frayed I have forgotten the acronym are an exact term that's being used in Tower Hamlets but they've been looking at a model that is somewhat between business Association and bid I'm in is a chance I've been involved in a number of bids was actually a non-executive director of a bed
and and there are quite a challenge to run you really do need a high level of engagement from businesses that one it was one at London Bridge it had a really interesting mix of big businesses and small and I think we've got a way to go to get there in terms of business engagement AM and involvement and
going as far as getting to a bid really does need some very strong business leadership you need people who really want to make it happen and I think it would be interesting to look at what they're doing in Tower Hamlets is there a mid point that we could move to with a long term ambition to get to a bid but I am at something I'd like us to to look at
thanks Fiona Amanda
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:04:27
thanks Amanda for Dopo session
and thanks to Fiona for your contribution and will go on to the next item No
that is Tom Brown
once you vacated their seat total jumping
and as with the previous items as any points of statements anything you want to make at the beginning term or you're happy to go into questions
Public Speaker - 1:05:01
update questioned Chair thank you again as with the previous items and
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:05:04
start with Councillor Karen but are there any other colleagues at this stage would like to indicate
a like to ask
a question to
Councillor Muldoon
OK Lee
thanks very much I'm sure I'm folk scoring I'm
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:05:18
a main question I have is when we've had local a where we've had reorganisation of health service functions in the past it's been a
method of cutting
something you know cutting local services once including Lewisham Hospital famously and also I'm
i'm
no loss of certain services they won't be commissioned blah blah blah and so that service dies in whether it's based delusional store in the chickpeas or whatever so my simple question is do you foresee any I'm loss of service is potentially if the commissioning group
decides to
exercise its functions and
finally if a one area of south-east London over the other
I'm and I know that I can see from the arrangements that is devolved boards for each area but my reading of the constitution is the those boards are consulted upon but the decision is made by the overarching body so could you answer those two thank you
thanks Lee Councillor do
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:06:43
and
Public Speaker - 1:06:45
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:06:46
Cllr John Muldoon - 1:06:48
are healthier Communities Select Committee has been engaged
I just want engaged because that's what Department of Health calls that it's not consultation because it didn't have any impact on service delivery No you may disagree but this is what Department of Health says and given the new incumbent of the Health and social Care Select Committee the Commons on Jimmy Hunt who
came off worst against me a few years ago but I don't think I'll be much hope for changing this this was very much imposed other parts of London have
deferred we will want the first to goes we had to bring this a this plan into force from April this year other parts of London have
had more time to have a more leisurely more considered response perhaps but rest assured that the South East London Joint Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee and the Pan London JOSC which is a total totally independent unfunded forum we are keeping a close eye on service any perceived service cuts although the sale from Department of Health was this what about cutting services it was about a more efficient way of delivering we will see
thanks John Tom
it just just a couple of points
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:08:11
Public Speaker - 1:08:14
the the issue about the reorganisation and the cuts
there was a
a requirement for the CCG the commissioning
element not the service delivery from the providers to make savings
as part of not as part of the organisation's reorganisation of bringing the six separate CCG's together into the one south-east London CCG and picking up a Council didn't put all all of the
the all all all of London is going from separate CCG's into two 5
CCG's which
old inefficient
XI and been around for as long as I have it looks a bit like Regional Health authorities to me but
the but the the
the requirement was for them to make I think it was 20 percent savings out of the reorganisation that was a given but they had to come out of the commissioning and support functions not from front line services so the CCG wasn't allowed to take money out of the that's not to say that they don't have
the providers have savings targets as well euphemistically called quip which is Quality Improvement and productivity Brits always about savings
but those are very separate from this this is about the commissioning arrangements that we have
as
I think Councillor Best's note is being circulated as a chair so
I think the
she made I think the point at Mayor and Cabinet that the paper that came was very technical paper because what we're trying to explain was that the the sovereignty of Mayor and Cabinet is not affected by going to these arrangements and so from the if you get into sides the health side this
the borough based board is a
standing committee of the south-east London CCG which has has the ultimate sovereignty in the same way for Council Mayor and Cabinet has the ultimate sovereignty
the aim though is that
decisions about
the use of community resources community health provision mental health provision anything which is based in our community services not the acute hospital contracting
which in fact has been done at a south-east London system level for the last three years in reality this is about giving us much more local
explicit local influence from the Council side on the way that those services are shaped and
we do that already to some extent through the collaborative commissioning arrangements that we have I think this solidifies it into a way which gives us more
more formal opportunity
if I could I just on that point here because it's very crucial his
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:11:29
I think that
it was on that
I'm because it says that those three senior officers of the Council be attending on a non-voting basis is that continuing the existing arrangements because that's an excuse my ignorance of the system
I'm biased as they will be non-voting so what influence what I have
again I think this sorry
Public Speaker - 1:12:01
sorry to chat and for this I think that this is the technical difference between voting for reasons about pure NHS things and I'm to be honest if it ever got to a point where we're putting things to a vote I think we will have failed and this should
did this is a joint commissioning arrangement and we want to get to a place where actually we're working so collaboratively that reaching consensus that we don't have a health council divide over how resources are best used at the moment both myself and the Director of public Health are non-voting members of Lewisham CCG and but I have to say in the nine months whatever it is that I've been here and been attending those I felt that I've had as much of a say as the formal voting members
could it be argued that this
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:12:59
that this would lead to a diminution of influence and environment on behalf of residents to the Council as it stands at the minute
whether it's Lewisham CCG
I think there is the risk that the creation of the south-east London
Public Speaker - 1:13:13
CCG takes decision-making away from the borough and
no
closer to I'm
Tooley Street where the team of the central team are based and that is a risk
the reality has been as I said that for the acute hospital commissioning for guys and Tommy's Kings and Lewisham and Greenwich trust that has been done through a an integrated arrangement there anyway
there is a
a formal risk that the CCG is now across the six boroughs but what they have given is an undertaking that things that are devolved to the boroughs around the local community infrastructure and will remain there and I think the formal arrangements that were trying to get into will have a hopefully an opportunity actually for more democratic input through the connection from the Council
and being held more to account both by healthier select and by the Health and Wellbeing Board that we can influence better influence from the community side than we have at the moment
it's always a challenge but I think that we will be
we would be worse off we were if we were not doing this at Dan if we were doing it
I based on any other colleagues have any further questions or points a for Tom
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:14:45
councillor sobel are just very quick Cottam comment I'm a bit of
Cllr Luke Sorba - 1:14:54
background this this seems to echo a process of seen elsewhere so until recently Lewisham was its own adoption agency but we are now part of a regional multi Barra south-London adoption agency we had our own self-standing safeguarding partnership that exists at the Lewisham level but that is now part of a multi Borough safeguarding partnership so I'm not evaluating the trend I'm just saying this is part of what I've noticed as a kind of wider trend to come up with regional bodies and the main implication for how much Lewisham as part of that influences final decisions
thanks look
obviously is very very important to us in as Councillor Varley Dunas
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:15:42
said through that committee and through Councillors in general will be keeping a strong I on this and how it goes forward and what we would expect is that if something isn't working out correctly as as all of us want officers and Councillors that Councillors know about it all together we can try and deal with it alleviate when it was needed
on that basis that we can thank Tom for his contribution and
turnover me paper if I'm we have no
Tom Henry where we stayed of the highways infrastructure
what the update on the Highways Asset Management Strategy welcome Trump
well that's no problem thank you for your contribution Councillor Muldoon
I'm
as with the that items Tom H
if his thanks for walking in front of the camera Councillor will do and have a good evening am I
here
do you have any statements any points that you wanna make an advanced Tom we are happy Port Street into questions
Just just a small statement yet basically the report was about the
Public Speaker - 1:16:53
Council's responsibility with its highways assets conditioned existing assets how much can be invested in the assets and how we want to go forward
thank you to him again I will hand over to Councillor current but
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:17:08
before he begins to any other colleagues indicate like indicated this time the be asking any questions
councillor Khan
Over to you were ill
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:17:20
thank you very much Chair thanks hello Tom firm
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:17:24
My main question is about as worried about some similar to the previous question or not assets I'm
I note that reusing some software
that standard from the Highways Agency or the government recommended ones do we have our
Just Do you think you could benefit from having a much better software system for managing our Highways assets because the so much of them as you listed in the report
and the next one is
I'm
well anticipation is being made for savings in the future of eliminating car or reducing car usage and increasing the road space available for cyclists and pedestrians
thank you Chair
thanks Liam will take Councillor card Tommy then you can respond
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:18:23
thanks Chair thanks Tom am
Cllr Patrick Codd - 1:18:30
I found this very dense the be
all the difference are things so forgive me if it's in the report
I'm
just I
want my whole ward recently and the state of the highways was fantastic the the roads bits the whether vehicles go
am but what I noticed was the a
the footways to me didn't seem in great condition in many places for various reasons so when I looked at the report I was surprised that
80 per cent if I am reading it right 80 percent of the footways are indicated on the performance dashboards
not needing maintenance or
and only three point one per cent in the red section
which in Inner sergeants wondered if Tom had any comments on
a
expenditure on footways
is it just my standards that must be very different or in a what the feeling is on footways because it looks as though the way it's been assessed as by our own internal team and it is there any sort of conflict of interest there
thank Pat a director
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:20:00
which questioned Chas
aren't OK
Public Speaker - 1:20:04
I am in agreement on footways
basically what had happened in 2 thousand 16 17 we had a completes course visual inspection of all our footways
and we also have had had an inspection of all our carriage ways and that's normally done every every three years three-year cycle what we have found is that within footways de condition goes quickly from amber into red
and based on also in parallel with this we got three Highways inspectors that walk all the streets some from the day they walk
once year are the roads twice a year some once a month like Lewisham High Street and and basically they pick up on defects and get the defects to basically trip hazards etc repaired some two hours and 24 hours seven days some 28 days others do make a record of what the defect is and that's all all of that which is part of your question is is registered on a bit of software which is which is a quiet quite most well used asset management software confirm and many other Bowers and and can't count as use that as well
so we've got
to strings there really and also on confirm we write all our orders to the Contractor so we know what we spend on each road so we got a third string of how we then assess which the top the highest priority now in terms are going forward
in terms of I wanted to m from the new fiscal year my plan is to
increase
the level of investment spent on footways
because I see that as
the where we were likely to get the most problems in the future
and a trip hazards on footways and that on a carriage way are different
so we are switching some went away investments happened but yes the carriage ways are in quite good condition as because A-level investment we've had over the last 10 years but we are in is still requires that level of investment
to maintain the status quo but does not answer your question
yes it yet it seems that what you're saying is
Cllr Patrick Codd - 1:22:37
it's the way the way it has been assessed
you've your feel is that probably there is more need to spend on footways than then previously that saw what you're saying yeah
at the beginning it was it was it was surface in yes knacker
Public Speaker - 1:23:00
in terms of software
Public Speaker - 1:23:05
I did mention we use this bit of software called confirm in terms of the of the surveys that there daresay follows on national guidance surveys there is a bit of software which you can use that data and then it translates to perhaps however about once a Red Amber Green status but we that gets externalised down by a company the bit software because of 20 thousand pounds to our survey costs 20 thousand pounds and when only use it once every three years
we do have a mapping information of where all are of all our roads we do have data of where all our bridges or structures all of our structures bridges are surveyed every principal inspections every six years or general spectators every two years and that's put on a bit better software called Kew Bridge station the lighting of the else's inspected through the PFI contract
said of his software and software that we use and that there is no plans to get additional software
thanks for that comeback on two things one is to be stopped or cut
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:24:11
back on spraying pavements reads a few years ago
so it is that one of the reasons for the deterioration in the condition of footways and secondly to save your time I'm
in terms of the
software the only reason I sort of ACIS just want you to know that you're happy that you've got the right resources to monitor that because I'm
in in the report
sorry to cut into the teacher I was looking at it and the module see asset knowledge it says The Lewisham uses the asset eventually shown in table C and it says
a table C and C to provide an overview of the data collected and resources used and there isn't a C and C in this report
so the missing I just wanted as access to technical error because it just go straight to see three
sorry just looking for that information
can find it online and off I thought I'd wait hold more fire because obviously sometimes you have different reports but in this paper on its its Monsieur sites
what you see asset knowledge page
clause 11 page 11
the sought asylum on on on the on the copy of County Fund meters the
Public Speaker - 1:25:45
table C and F or there isn't there isn't as
there is a C and C
I can't comment subject I haven't got in front of me
it says Lewisham heritage asset inventory shown in table C
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:26:02
colleagues you have to turn to make reforms off unless you are
Public Speaker - 1:26:06
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:26:08
actually speaking at it in wait until the previous Speaker has turned their microphone off before you switch on in respond please Tom T
I apologise that I was looking at the paper
Public Speaker - 1:26:23
there isn't the table C other I'll have to go back and see where it is easier on the hard copy I've got here
o
and
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:26:45
so the table C and C out in the report so if we could have those and to understand the whole report thank you over and out
do you have any comment you it will get that provided
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:27:00
we'll get that towards Tom yet
can I just ask a question a bit of clarification on what was seen there basically everyone's agreeing that the footpaths aren't in the best nick and they are the priority or one of the priorities going forward but on the bit that Pat mentioned that if I've got it right it says 80 per cent of fame based on the software we use your seeing if I've got it right
you don't accept that is none of us do could have seen the state of it so it's just a thought of late
o but you also see the soft red where's great but at the same time when accepting that what it says about footpaths that makes sense
does that make sense to anybody
no
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:27:51
unless I am wrong and I understood was that because footpaths haven't
Jim Mallory - 1:27:52
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:27:52
Jim Mallory - 1:27:53
been a priority for us in the past while the carriage ways have been there has been a built-in repression of the A of the of the weighting of what constitutes a
satisfactory thing I'm I may have that wrong tongue and you're now proposed you're having having observed what's happened you are now proposing to amend the system I don't know a in a way which will enable us to to give a
measure it in a in a less repressed where I can't think of the wrote wording but I think my
I hope I'm right
that's the way I understood it
yakka cannot can I add the
Public Speaker - 1:28:45
the data in the table was based on a survey three years ago
when we come to our assessment for the footway programme would take that three years' data or stopped as red and amber and we look at them first and we also take the information that we have for my Highways inspectors and that's how we then prioritise our programme of works to date you see those based of fond of ward data and analysis does come from this survey
thank you to Councillor
sober elect Councillor Middleton
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:29:14
thank you Tom for the report just a quick question about some drainage
Cllr Luke Sorba - 1:29:19
because we have some absurd war in the ward we have
possible areas at repeat flood but I did notice that it's the
the biggest gap between 20 18 19 performance and our target is in the percentage of gullies cleansed do you anticipate
as being able to improve that and if so is it are we going to be doing something differently in the future to help us close that gap or is it is or something kind of endemic that may make it very very difficult to do so
councillor Middlebank
I spoke at the event
sorry
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:30:01
what to do with
Cllr Luke Sorba - 1:30:03
the emphasis on pathways
will be
Joan Millbank - 1:30:07
very much welcomed by members of the community but I just want to say I don't actually certainly about sought to pick up the Council's current support I mean I personally support the fact we've actually stop spraying Denside the pavements must be very good for biodiversity and insects very important to our clients 6 I've just thinking that's gonna be looked at again presumed there will be can I be reassured there will be some dialogue with
whether Environment section is to think about the consequences of that for insects because I do actually think except in a benefit in factually Stop spraying on the pathways
OK I believe Spain her stop at spine is not within my management controls in is its environment
Public Speaker - 1:30:44
On the gullies
but what we used to have
a more psychical gully cleansing routine and what we did we then
had a survey of all the gulleys we measured the gulleys the depth of sediment in the galleys and form that where they are where those trees and etc. we have come up with came up with a more sophisticated
sophisticated way of doing a gully cleansing disturbed just going round on on on a rota
part the partner problem that we have we have had with our galleries is that a lot lot to gulleys are
cloud
and that the covers etc are jammed said the difficulty we then have is then went when they can't get to a galley as a car parked on there and order can't get clean gullies because it's jammed covers jam it in ends up in a ticket for
some
maintenance work to be carried out to let Galley and then perhaps a replacement the gallery etc.
It is it is something that we're trying to get a say more intelligently GAL gully cleansing and it doesn't in which I do as about also 2 m a trying to get the Jam gullies and the cars were the cause part
managed more intelligently as well so that there is a bit of a cost element in that Bill in order to release the down gullies etc that requires a small amount of investment which is basically shift in ran within our budgets
can I turn it off and may
I just do do you anticipate that investment coming or submit your
Cllr Luke Sorba - 1:32:26
still waiting to hear whether where they will have the money to do
that
it's about shifting the budgets with
Public Speaker - 1:32:36
the Budget and there's no increase in level of revenue budget
thanks Tom I don't believe there are any other colleagues who want to make any contribution to this item thanks are not going to name them
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:32:48
the next item we will be having Martin or Brian in his Martin
the Community energy Fund Grant report
can I have an indication of colleagues who would like to ask any questions and this item at this time it'll be led off by Councillor Karon but of any other colleagues are Martyn as with anyone else is any statement or anything you want to see an advanced or you're happy to go straight into questions
I am happy to go straight
Public Speaker - 1:33:23
to question use I use the word happy advisedly i'm on that basis I will hand over to Councillor current
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:33:27
thank you Chair I'm thank you I'm
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:33:35
I just read a couple of questions on this one is I think obviously this a great projects fantastic great to see I'm or trying to work out how if into strategic approach to reducing I'm
in another how the projects themselves contribute strategically so they are all good individually and I am not actually thinking there's anything wrong with them so this isn't a criticism it's just to try to find out
what's the Council solve global approach how does it fit into its global approach I not just noticed that the criteria seems to be for community groups it doesn't mention schools but schools are getting the lion's share of the money now that's a great thing if it's you know getting kids to understand a how to reduce energy will lead them to get their parents to change their habits that's a well known technique but I just wanted to
is it just the way it panned out or why is that and is there any other sources of funds we can get schools to get money to reduce their carbon emissions rather than this one and spread the money wider as a result
thank you
thank Lane a distance that you have your hand sorry Peter
Edward
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:34:56
as at the hands of well we'll have Councillor card before you replying to that question
because he was directly related
that I thought
Labour was going
Cllr Patrick Codd - 1:35:07
to say say this a it did seem to me that that schools weren't listed in the organisations who could benefit from it that was the odd thing and then they did seem to benefit from it
such wondered how that happened
Public Speaker - 1:35:31
i'm OK so I'm in terms of how the community energy fund fits in with our wider
strategic approach
I'm a I think I would a I'd want to make the link to the declaration of the climate emergency and the work that we're doing around that where the evidence base that we looked at has suggested the scale of work that is needed to deliver on the ambition for the borough to be carbon neutral by 2 thousand 30 is
a fundamental change in the way it affects society operates in an investment on a scale of 1 point 6 billion and rising in order to you know
change both the infrastructure but also I think change
the way people make decisions in the way we collectively as communities and as organisations make decisions so so in relation to our climate emergency action plan which is scheduled to go to mayor cabinet on 11th March
a key focus of that is about saying that this isn't something the Council can just go and deliver
and it needs to be
something that government seriously invests in but also a big part of our role where we have one is about trying to
engage with residents and engage with local organisations so the Community energy funds is a kind of
an example of what we hope is a way of
doing some fairly small scale things that will we hope have a resonance beyond the fact that we might have installed smelly delights in one particular room or we might have
provided a ground-floor Community Garden to up its renewable energy supply
because it's about the people that actually come to those buildings so schools in particular are a big focus of the work that we need to do around communication inspiring and learning from other people who are
motivated and interested in in joining with us on this agenda
so I think that the fund generally but the point about schools I think really strongly linked to what we're trying to do in a wider strategic sense I totally take the point that in the report itself it lists out the types of organisations
yeah let's just looking for
I'm
a so
in one place it says it's it I think we are I think that perhaps the wording he didn't art doesn't articulate what happened we had a query very early on
from schools and all the school bids that we had were in fact
supported through a local community organisation called south-east London Community energy that we work very closely with so south-east London Community energy had access some funding from the London Community energy funds
which allowed some
resource to support assemblies and what they wanted to do was use our fund to complement that and make some improvements in terms of some of the fabric to
some solar PV and some LED lights and then bring those two things together so that
the kids in the school could could actually measure the difference that these things made bring it into some of the engagement work there was coming in with the school so we had a query at its head can schools apply and it could have been technically possible for south-east and Community energy to make all the applications but actually they wanted to schools to have ownership with it and because this is our community energy fund and because
you know the guidance was ours to kind of shape as we saw fit we thought
that it was it was
perfectly in keeping with the rest of the scope of the fund perhaps the wording head in quite keep up with the reality but we gave the feedback
that we would be
willing to accept bids from schools
particularly where
in this case they were working directly with the Community Organisation and it levered in funding from elsewhere so it just seemed to make a really strong fit with found overall
thanks Martin I'm I've got an indication from Councillor Millbank any
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:40:13
per got any one else no job
no thank you I mean I think I'm fat the school's applied is a good thing I think it's a good thing for the point feeder schools was also
Joan Millbank - 1:40:21
good things to avoid fear the fund because if you add the numbers after says 14 organisations that applied if those schools hadn't applied and the money wouldn't have been
used it in that way I mean I think what does this report shows Smith's the potential great lot potential in terms of this barrows one I don't know if it is going to be a third round but as I've worked on the Eco Audit a program in the past for another organisation I think one of the difficulties is getting organisations to think this is important and put some time into it so another reason I think the public discourse it's because they have facilities managers so they've got some capacity for that as well so I just think this for me this is this is good in that it could in itself but it's good in its potential because I think there are lots of organisations and I am a bit disappointed to say most of the Council outdoor council supported community associations didn't put in but I suspect that's because they don't quite appreciate what this is all about
so when I dunno capacity is going forward but it would be really good if we could somehow find a way of engaging them in the importance of these sustainability issues
rather than just signed as a bit of fun and you can apply for because I think people have to know well what could we use it for but also what's the benefit of this and also to know what's the right thing to ask for as well because they have to Kanye say there the running of the buildings in kind of in the round from a sustainability point of view but anyway I think it's really good news
there are just a couple of points I would pick up on on on that
Public Speaker - 1:41:53
we did have some applications that we rejected their not detailed in the report just because we didn't want to believe I'm kinda go into that sort of level of detail
there's a
if they
as to whether there is a third round I think that more generally are aspiration is to work with community organisations and schools to do this kind of work the challenge is trying to find
the resource trying to find the money in the first place this money came from
a
a repurposed Grant that we originally received from central government for a
carbon reduction projects three or four years ago as a revolving fund that came to the end of its useful life and we
no we're able to repurpose it for this so it was a bit of a one off and but we but we all see the value in doing it a key part of what we want to do so we are looking for ways in which we can try to
do things along along the lines of this with
community organizations in Council buildings one of the challenges is that they're often be on full repairing leases and so then there's an issue about giving them extra money to pay for things that you've already entered into agreement that they're responsible to do so that was one of the challenges I think in terms of bringing those types of organisations onside
thanks to at
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:43:23
I don't think there's any of the points of questions to monitor thanks to locked for coming along too late
before we go on to the next item which is Charlotte
do colleagues have any
we don't make any considerations of making any points comments
etc. on any of the items that were discussed tonight with regards to them communicating with Mayor and Cabinet
there that any suggestions or anything on any of the items the five or are we happy with the
conversation that we had tonight
sorry chair a not formally on the bit about the Community wealth
Joan Millbank - 1:44:03
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:44:04
Joan Millbank - 1:44:04
though they'll deny felt confident that the Cabinet Member will actually take away our ideas and if the noted in the minutes as a safeguard the I don't think we need to personally I don't think we need to formally put that before the Mayor and Cabinet
thanks John and the other comments from any other colleagues
can Councillor Khan
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:44:22
obviously the I'm just the missing section on
the but that's just again you know not
Cllr Liam Curran - 1:44:28
a major thing just machine report on Highways
section that we could see that
yes indeed interminable get back to us in there and very complex and
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:44:39
very good time a charm and all our work maybe it's if you send it to Kevin are Jasmine in Leyland she were all members of the business Panel gettable will leave that officers to to work out the best way we have erred Stephanie's indicate
you might just want to make sure that the decision if they
are not going to refer back to the decision
maker and any of these items is
Stephanie Fleck - 1:44:58
that right
that's where we're going but we haven't formally done that but yes unless any
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:45:04
any other final points in that case the answer to that is yes i'm sure whether those two provisos with the items from Tom at so yes Tom I'm and Jones comments for the minutes we will ask Charlotte to come along all your officers can leave exciting bits finished they may see it but we know this is going to be exciting as well
so when you're ready I'll just hand over to police on it
Public Speaker - 1:45:43
thank you Chair so since the last business Panel meeting a proposed new scrutiny structure has been agreed in principle and a report will now be produced for the Constitution working party and in relation to those elements of the new structure that require constitutional change than all the proposed changes will be submitted to the Council AGM so key features of the new structure include having six Members for each Select Committee
apart from the children Young people select committee that will have 8 plus the five independent education representatives each Select Committee will meet five times a year with those meetings scheduled across the course of the year and time limited task and finish groups will be introduced to carry out
in depth scrutiny into topical issues of concern in these groups will be set up by the full overview and scrutiny committee
in terms of the Select Committees we are about to enter the final cycle of Select Committee meetings this municipal year

5 Overview and Scrutiny Select Committee Work Programmes - 2019-2020

all the in-depth reviews are on track to conclude this year apart from safe as Equalities Review and that's because a large volume of evidence was collated for that review including a recent fact-finding visit to Glasgow so some time is needed to fully analyse this and present it in a final report so that report will therefore go to the first meeting of the new municipal year the Select Committee Chairs may wish to provide their own oral updates on Select Committee work thank you Chair
thank surely do any chairs or others wish to make any comments on
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:47:09
anything happening in their own Committees anything that Charlotte's highlighted tonight about gay Juliet anyone else
capture retreat the question first Julia if that's all right about what George Councillor Mallory
sorry I don't have a report to make because I made one to overview and
Jim Mallory - 1:47:31
scrutiny the other day which I think covered pretty well everything I could think of
but I do have a question and apologies for this but when we met in another place about the democracy review I had a prior engagement and couldn't attend
I think this is reasonable issue to raise in public I'm
p p although it may have been raised a there so apologies if it has and has been resolved the is a kind of logistical issue around the Task and finish because it strikes me that many of the really important task and finish
issues that we might wish to investigate a Wood A B cross-cutting and therefore might involve more than one committee and our past experience in involving more than one committee has been arduous at best and quite cumbersome and so I don't know whether this has been addressed but I think if it hasn't
there will need to be I'm A look at doing it and managing that those processes are in a much more expedient and a x and y because I don't think actually necessary what will happen quite often is one of the committees will be quite keen on the other camp for at least two members of the other Committee even if the Chair is assiduous can't really be bothered so it's a one it's a one committee show even though it has
you know equal impact on both Committees
thanks customary L let's Charlotte dance electronic dance Adhamy comment
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:49:10
so the task and finish groups will be independent of the select
Public Speaker - 1:49:16
committees so I'm one of the reasons behind setting up the Task Group's was I'm they could look at strategic cross cutting issues because I think one of the issues that had been experienced with Select Committees carrying out in depth reviews was that sometimes they kind of weird went beyond the remit of that Committee so Members of other Committees were asked to attend and give evidence whereas a Task Group the membership can be drawn from all non-executive members so they'll be able to look at cross cutting strategic i'm items a and then make reported to Mayor and Cabinet on them
so apologies is because I have undoubtedly missed the discussion in
Jim Mallory - 1:49:57
and around the process I'm so the decision to set up a task and finish group will be the property of overview and scrutiny I'm and it will be for review and scrutiny to decide which Members are involved yet
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:50:19
yes exactly at the pay I'm always a great saw the exact processes in stone but basically councillors will come to full overview and scrutiny with a proposal to set up a task and finish group on X issue and the make-up of the membership will be decided on a obviously most young volunteers in it people will be forced to do stop are basically it'll come through overview and scrutiny committee I'm yet
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:50:49
look comes in sorry Julia was it a question is it a question or is it or is a question on on this bit for Charlotte either report for the question
i'm so I've
Cllr Luke Sorba - 1:51:02
just following off what Jim said I'm I've
put some questions to the Chair of Overview and scrutiny today
i'm asking about the other end actually gym which is the what happens after Task and finish have completed their report and if it
involves the field that one of the select committees has so far it's on housing or children young people or an orange environment
might there be a role
of that Select Committee
once the report has been written and I've just asked some questions because I feel probably at this stage and we haven't quite set out the final steps before it gets to Mayor and Cabinet and and cause because this is the first time we're doing it I wouldn't have expected us to but just to let everyone know I've just today raised some similar issues about ironing out that those kind of details before we sort of forge ahead with it
I think you are absolutely right to lock the detail hasn't been worked out yet
Public Speaker - 1:52:12
but I can certainly provide a response to any questions that you've raised
can I just cook sorry Julia before bringing Councillor Campbell
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:52:22
can I just comment come out well comment A A or unless LA Jim wasn't at the the other place as reported but there was lots of very good points put forward for and against and inquiries and will how will this work and how will it be implemented etc throughout the debate
so there is lots of issues that have to be dealt with and confident they will be dealt with but I'd like to take this opportunity to say as as Lucas said he sent in some questions so if anybody else has any questions concerns queries we want you to be sending them in so we can make this work and in the
you know put a procedure together that everyone's happy with
could I call on Councillor Campbell is ready
it's a teeny-weeny little things just to follow what solid talked
Cllr Juliet Campbell - 1:53:14
about I'm Safer and stronger as final report won't be ready in this municipal year but there will be some draft erm recommendations for the Single Equalities Framework because they
they are they have to report to Mayor and Cabinet in this year so our recommendations for that element of the equalities in depth review will be ready but the overall report won't be
thanks Juliet or does anyone else have any comments or questions for
Cllr Bill Brown - 1:53:46
Charlotte if not thank you a once again Charlotte and going to look at me sheet of paper and an eternal or when it's blank so that I think that means we've entered the meeting thanks again for another interesting and worthwhile debate on a lot of issues and I look forward to seeing you next time thanks a lot