Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel - Tuesday, 26th May 2020 at 7:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel
Tuesday, 26th May 2020 at 7:00pm 

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1 Minutes
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2 Declarations of Interests
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4 Key Decision Plan
4 Key Decision Plan
6 Decision by the Executive Director of Housing, Regeneration and Environment on 15 May 2020
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  1. Webcast Finished

I'd like to welcome everyone to today's business Palace evenings business panel it's too late where I am sitting lovely afternoon I'd like to get straight into the gender just before that however like to welcome any members of the public press anyone else went down what you can wake up and I would like to also welcome colleagues and won't go Members' business Panel and officers and staff of the Council he'll have joined us here tonight to so vacant to everybody we've got a big agenda tonight I would like to wear moved swiftly on and all we had enough members of the Committee for quorum and the first thing I'd like to deal with just to record any apologies I have apologies from Councillor shake
are there any other apologies if no one shouts out I say that as you know I say that is a no

1 Minutes

the next item is minutes we've all got copies of the minutes are any items Stoney Conley want to raise any action from the minutes if so these show tent

2 Declarations of Interests

I've not got a declarations to any members of the business Panel have any declarations to declare yes I do Chair on slugging under item 3 the COVID-19 report just declare the I'm associated with Lewisham local collaborative and on the key decisions item 5 report and the best street on page 17 I'm a
a trustee of the New Cross Gate Trust
dallat John are there any other declarations

3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response [REPORT TO FOLLOW]

well OK recommendation 3 which is the first substantive agent air of the evening its scrutiny of Lewisham council's Colbert 19 report and the report is to be presented I believe by the Chief Executive
and route Wilkinson if their country showed Otley on their and hello terrace if Kim rightly protective here at RAF Wilkinson is on much and and believe this week's or Kevin Sheehan is presenting the report alongside this evening
thanks very much came welcome Cabinet and I'm sure we hold a grey route deserves a few days if he can get them any other Members as stuff an interest before the going to wear into any comments from Kevin O'Kane who won a kick off the report I just want to see an enormous because everybody here just to shore real thanks and gratitude to all the staff in the Council and across the board who have continue and continue when we continue to work as hard as possible to make sure residents those vulnerable residents get all the support that the need and it is when a plea for the record those before councillors he up with that so Kevin came of anything you wish to highlight on the report before we open up the questions so I'll leave it to you both now for expelling I'll just and give us a few overviews I can Councillor Brown and so this this report provides the update in assurance for Overview Scrutiny and a summary of the Council's overall response to covert 90 and in particular were focusing on those the critical services and in paragraph 4 point 1 and we're reminding members there about the approach being focused on that the three bullet points about intervention having a tangible positive outcome I can provide immediate sport to the council's response and how it can illuminate and improved decision making in section 5
starting from a point 1 we set out by the Council stress Jean objectives at for our response to COVID and going on at paragraph 5 point for the also provide members with a brief overview of the the London position with it's been very important that we playing our part in the pan-London arrangements in the response because it it's also
as set out in paragraph 5 point 5 and actually it's been very much a one council approach Hoover response and the collaboration across the Council irrespective whether staff are working critical none critical services has I think been very very impressive we took a look of it then impact thudded our 5 point 9 that Council staff redeployment explained to members about the help flying being established by e-mailing fierier than the pools that have been answered by staff who have been redeployed from none critical services who provides this practical and very reassuring response to the the residents' concerns questions and anxieties that came in we also second paragraph 5 when 11 and some examples where staff have volunteered into roles of being a critical importance I got for works well to talk about community response and I think we could all say this the positivity of resilience communication that we've seen in Lewisham and faces of the most difficult times we've ever faced has been extraordinary we need to support and sustain this capacity that this crisis has unblocked and Nelson's interest Oak some going forward
to apply for external training than talks Nicholas about shielding which was an additional responsibilities if councils for those people who were an extremely flammable clinically and this crisis
I will 5 point 18 onwards thoughts about that part of its workings and again I think it's a testament to all our partners across the borough that those joint working arrangements have really come to the fore in seen everybody deliver the response that we have to deliver the services and a response to be having your Ossian
and then
section 6 onwards which is widely thought to members about and updating assurance on those critical services history with her turbine Ford Lewisham and there's quite a lot of detail 2 thousand pages and open tend to take members to ensure that a question Nos with able to answer them but just a section that does provide that detail on the services that Members have asked for
you before we go to question the Chair I think for me just to give a sense of some of these the issues and and summary I think the scale and pace of been unprecedented and and and not a part of the council has been untouched in the way we responded to this capturing with the positivity and harnessing that community or what will in the way that we go forward and how we connect and interact who gave about communities in in a different way having learnt from those interactions during his crisis's certainly something brass to pay close attention to
I think easing the lockdown will be harder than going into it and we must be I'm very aware of the potential for further surges in infections if transmission rates increased but I do think eating of a lockdown is going to be very tricky offshoots of reasons and I think for the lessons were learning from the last 10 weeks are ones that we want to capture to both learn how to do things better in the future but very importantly how we capture the changes and the positive benefits that we've been able to and see operate in the last eight week 8 10 which have been at weird important for us to do as well and I think that community purchase one team culture that there has been across not just the workforce of the council but the the way members have responded as well is something that we need to make sure the walks of harnessing and showcasing as well and I think that the response that we've seen from a Council and the partners of boss motion said the ones that I've been very Pat proud of my other hope then but have been to
very happy to take questions Chair thank you cloudscape ogle Beckett a couple of things consequent colleagues can everyone makes you unless you actually speaking might befall his off and we'd all be patient with those each of that to turn them on and off when when it gets darker moments speak and also ask them for those contributors although the 10 days too late who want actually M speaking at basically can turn the camera off who isn't speaking or isn't a member of the Committee sought easy-access or the cameras that the public see although there people were speaking and also other members of the Committee so that's what the public say and then thirdly to Chairs of Committees just to point out that during this item this would be the time if you have any points that you wish to ban
confirmed to the business Panel with regards to inform an communications have had with the respective Committees if there's anything to highlight our to point out and this would take the opportunity of showing asking questions true in this item
I've seen concert complicates reporting and fair put the hands of their mug metaphorically air but I am going to ask some questions first if that's all right and then I will come to Councillor current and Councillor Campbell and there any of those other point show has indicated they wish to speak huddle Kim and or Kevin
now I've just got some some exemption from the report and Amélie and I'll just go straight into the factual care through recovery group can be a bit more when I think that might start and what kind of involvement with community groups local residents and councillors will have any involvement of that going forward when we talk about the fears of review am and for colleagues unfortunately are having not did the paragraphs of numbers on these but this is all at the beginning of the of the report at these items the phase of review a coming of some ideas are you going to carry it out and again is the consultation question we will identify and adjusted idea flavour of how we're going to implement that
and the section on am shielding we have fundable people clinically vulnerable people clinically extremely vulnerable people people I want every heart a bit of a breakdown of how the of numbers how that breaks down or fats but there we've got 680 I at the time the report I was still trying to contact and I'll just curious if we had so my ideas of what the issues their way of contacting those people in all be continue continuing to endeavour to to do that but what have been the problems day for the first group
it also begs the question which is really comes to the back of the report and and Finance
are we getting support from the government to meet the needs of all these groups or just the extremely clinical extremely vulnerable group and I'm not clear exactly how it works what we are being promised that were for getting money in support many fund to support to meet these services and then I'd like to go onto the section that was about them working with groups in the Borough and particularly the police and that will work with the police I think it's 5 point to actually I did make an order that
if our colleagues in the report and this weekend obviously we've seen some other see many was of heard about the issues and parks with Notts of air people congregating and knocking social distance in that his wondering if they'd been any conversations offers any feedback over the weekend at with regards to that and then just to more questions care homes PPE links into the finance and and and really it links into the section on Fane and 6 6 point 4 6 6 9 4 7 6 punk for it and the whole of section 7 with regard for the finances and
we talk about people being provided to care homes locally what we all support Negri with very strongly but again is that a kind of policy and action that we're going to get money from from the government that they have promised and the reason bringing this up and I finish on this is it's not clear and we know the impression was of the government to begin with you will get be reimbursed whatever you need to meet these needs for your residents in this time of crisis
and we know about getting different kind of feeling now it's ever going to reimburse what we think you what we think you're had to do if you went every bit further to protect your residents then in all that's for you to to pay for how this looking as best as possible for any clarity on where things stand on that
now I'm happy if you want to answer those questions before calling Councillor Curran
yes I prefer to answer that that to achieve questions first if you don't mind between Kevin an eye and recurring boy details that still the being developed at the moment and it would be my intention to bring further details of that either to the next all Member briefing or two or and to the meeting of this Panel next month as we still feel shaping that up
I didn't quite catch your second question if something that phasing of what was its I was going to affairs of reviewing the EU what we've done etc are there it'll again the contract the same question basically but on that they're on that issue
yet so that sat with paragraph 5 point 8 wasn't it yes and so there's a number of strands to this work will is there is an expectation that we've got to do an interim lessons learned report that will feed into the London vied arrangements of and what we've learned from this but also doing a piece of work internally to look at exactly the same I'm things what we done well one of the things have been want to do any going forward what things that and we want to keep doing going forward so again that will be something I want to bring back for this and all as it develops and
he then asked a question about the shielding breakdown on the next one this has been really really tricky that the shielding work be honest with you that that the data has been
happy into farce the releases of the data that we've been getting and the which we've been able to verify the accuracy of the data and one of the reasons why that we set up that outreach engagement team with redeployed staff in the Council is so that we can physically go and knock on people's doors if they haven't responded to our phone calls and our repeated attempts to contact them to check out their OK and a number of people have been on that shielded list who are saying they shouldn't be on it or they don't need help from us or that it was sent to them
as a as a not the data dump later on in the in the shielding process so that has been really tricky to stay on top of all of that data to be honest has been a problem for
turning to the Finance questions and you're absolutely right to raise these there there is some messages but but have been
given from from government heard by local government that perhaps have been a bit fluid in their interpretation but certainly we are and keeping very
hansard records of what it is that we're spending money on and shielding to take that particular example that would be one that very much we would save an additional responsibility has come with additional costs was that we wouldn't normally otherwise have incurred and the absolutely the right moral costs thrust of incurred I'll hasten to add but that would be something that we would argue very strongly is are entirely legitimate costs for us to be was to claim back from the government we are submitting monthly returns to the ministry there's a report coming to name cabinet in June that will provide the latest information on that position but you can imagine this is exercising a lot of local authorities across the country and there is lots of lobbying being done nationally and by London as well around the importance of getting some certainty around the Finance and
care homes and PPE funding and again this would be something that we would legitimately say we've Hatta provide emergency supplies if perhaps haven't Nell to put it himself through their business as usual advise then we would argue this is something that we would expect the government to be able to funders for I think you'll need your own question hadn't responded to is about the parks and police engagement which are going to ask care into response on that thank you
I think is quite close when we started off on this process you know the behaviour that was expected of everyone in public spaces was very very clear was you know parks were there for your one hour's exercise a day you weren't her own words you weren't allowed to sit down on park benches are lie around and have picnics Ander all that sort of stuff
and that was actually quite easy to enforce and quite easy to you know give people good guidance on and challenge so I think the relaxing of those rules of really changed that landscape quite a lot it means that work work were much more dependent on individuals self policing in a sense and doing the right thing itself distancing however we do have
you know patrols in the Parks every day and we are still observing behaviour and dumbing broadly speaking and we get report back every day from the pocketing and and the introduction of the police and broadly speaking people are still behaving very very well and doing the right thing and self distancing that's the general picture over all however there have been some significant cases where there are bits of events in parks were we have had more people gather at inappropriate times doing some inappropriate things and we are still working very closely with the police on a daily basis to try to address those things and myself or Kim spoke to the Cabinet this morning and the report sort of things at the weekend which we haven't picked up because they were out of hours very late at night and will will address those today when we spoke to police about them today will address those as we go forward but I think you know we have to recognise that where particularly after Ravens's again I think that the messaging as is more complicated now than it was at the beginning and that makes it more difficult to if you like patrol it you know but I think we can still work with our communities and still work our citizens to ensure that they did the right thing and get that messaging right and remind people of the importance of their self discipline of these things so it's a big dependence of people to do the right thing here know how vice Kevin I'm sure a number of us where can
the
how think of certain individual behaviour will try to muddy the waters and make it less clear for members of the public to know exactly what what to do before calling Councillor pointed it what checks from the with your case that's all right and find answers all we basically said the government isn't senior can do expect a condor why and you should do away but don't know not sure about Day
and no clarity from government to local authorities saying what the deathly reimbursed what the want etc. It is just just a big fog without buffet fair to sail up in England fans of the book and that's not for me to call it with your being fair or unfair to the government of course Councillor round but I do think it's it's fair to say that that that level of granularity about yes we will fund X but we won't fund why that isn't there yet and in terms of of of that finer detail and we are being asked to do returns that that less spend insert subject towers like Adult social Care Children's social Care for example but and shielding but not not granularity and not with any any indication of which get to take from which gets across the thank you both Councillor Curran
remarks chair
I am referring now for the benefit of colleagues and other people listening to a page 8 of the supplementary agenda
and
point 8 is the paragraph
and discusses dimensions there
in care homes in Lewisham official administrator tells us there have been 14 deaths I said 1st of May can we actually provide our own up to date number of of people who have been affected because in order for us to enable valid scrutiny we need to have up to date figures Hameed or I would expect the Council officers to provide us with those numbers
rather than referring to ONS data because presumably week if dictated to the ONS and that's a much over a bit of a delay through that because last in the minutes your say the I are I asked a question about deaths and care homes and I was told by another councillor that there's a high Lewisham was third had the third highest number of deaths in London I don't know if that's correct I'll have to put my hand up and admit that I don't I'm not good at interpreting those sort of very a specific sort of stats so some arise how many people do we not have died doing or have died from covert
a 19 in Lewisham care homes
how does that compare with other boroughs and what steps can we take to address that so that's three crushes on that I and the other point is on page 9 6 point 11 relates to what you ask chair about to P P PPA and money for
testing and everything it says the government announced 600 million pounds infection control funding for care homes and officers are developing our Lucious allocation of this funding will be distributed apologies if I missed if that question was discussed was answered previously because I had a little bit of interference or na on on my internet but my question is how much are we getting and how are we using it for the care homes thank you Chair
thankfully I can can you so you probably haven't had chance to see these yet Councillor Curran but in the written responses that were provided to the Panel shortly before the meeting started at that question was asked we did provide some data for that the latest figures as far as care homes is concerned and up to date of Mary with recorded 15 hope one of five COVID-19 deaths occurring in in the Lewisham but actually the work on a week by week basis the number of beds in care homes in Lewisham have been below the London average so we we certainly not been the third highest in London so added when that data came up pain from but I'm out of been below consistently below the London average
as far as that question around the fixed point 11 and the infection control funding our allocation of that's 1 point 6 million pounds and we have to submit by this Friday something is called her
care home support plan that sets out what we're planning to to to do with that money and indeed whether it's enough for what were expected though and also provide answers to a range of questions around an infection control testing EPA and equipment supply workforce support and clinical support so we have to submit a return again but I'm happy to share with members and that the appropriate time and so even see what that plan exists of and what it is that money is anticipated to be spent on and that the admission of that plan is something that I have to personally final flat plan along with every other Chief exec in the country but it's one that's put together and led by a Director of public Health alongside and in partnership with an RCT Gina and health colleagues
at least one to to clarify and can I thank the Chief Executive for their own son at very helpful and I think it's really important that were as open and honest or with public about what's happening in in care homes and that is a for me that's a lot greater clarity than than there was before hang so can I ask that we have we become publicise what we're doing about care homes and what we're doing there so we can make it more widely available to the public so that they will have instant confidence adjusting EFA
it's a sin of omission rather than coal mission nothing if for we don't get everything out on the table and just tell people what's happening people get suspicious you know especially now under this people don't trust the government because they're going around breaking their own rules and I think really to be above or above and beyond in terms of clarity thank you Chair
thankfully
I just again thank you for example it would be our intention due to publish of submission on the website and that is the expectation of it the government anyway but we will be publishing what we submitting the found fingerprint thanks came before call on Councillor Carter does when I make a list of the speakers and dot in case of missed any answer about the call Councillor Campbell followed by Muldoon card Millbank Mallory and Bernard's on ever missed anyone out put your name in there now please Councillor Campbell
thank you Chair I've got a couple of questions and then start off with the one I feel the least comfortable asking however I'm going to ask it anyway so my question is regarding the 20 staff redeployed into the established out Mutsch engagement programme you probably that happy information Nannerl but because of the disproportionate number of African and Caribbean people are dying of COVID and been asked to get a demographic breakdown of the members of that team
that seems pertinent given what's happened in the hospitals this my first question the other question I've got around
he'll ask the around the enforcement in the parks and things like that do we have any information around if there's been any enforcement in parks or any of those surrounding areas by the police or our own staff so RP even though calving said that on the whole people are being compliant there are police than there are enforcement officers going around have yet to do any enforcement in Lewisham
I am under my last question is around the rough sleepers that had been accommodated an an occult allocated accommodation is the accommodation that been allocated temporary or permanent or some temporary and some permanent thank you
and you'll get
OK thank you out or leave Kevin to answer the roughly sleepers in the parts question and apology I don't know the breakdown of that outreach engagement Team Councillor so I'll come back to you with with that if it's available
fabulous willing staff so probably will keep a thing as
can
thanks yes the have been it's this of enforcement I don't know the exact numbers yet so I'll I'll I'll get back to those but there I mean over the course of the last six or eight weeks on occasion silver staff have been attacked and abused so you know and that that has happened so when that happens we take action and the police take action those are very very small number of cases but but it does happen broadly speaking you know what we want to do here is is is encouraged everyone to do the right thing and that's very clearly what the police will do as well and were working very closely with them so so it it's a community based approach as opposed to enforce based approach book on occasion has has been required to take action and in terms of rough sleepers in the main they've been there been Hersden in Tempe accommodation and again this is going back to cause brands earlier point the government have agreed to pay for some of this I mean I think they started that say you're going to pay for all of it but our intention I know at London Councils and I came to a conversation the Chief Executive's intention across the land is not to go back to having we'll sleep as back the street again after this and were currently challenging the government quite heavily in relation to you know you know coming up with some schemes whereby we can keep those people who have actually come off the street and I keep them off the street and have some longer term solutions for them but in the main for the moment it's being that they're going to be a temporary locations
5 Kevin Kim thanks Juliet of Councillor want Dune lecture thank you very much and cause I am grateful to officers for providing the written answers to some of my questions earlyish night I hope puff Mr. France he can share his screen so we can look at the charts because I'm not able to share my screen there are some very interesting Trust but before that our I've got up a little bit illumination to shine on our Councillor Curran's question and I think a point to be made I'm sure the Chief exec would make it also is that the distribution of care homes is not uniform across London so where we am where we lie on a scale across London needs possibly could be weighted with regard to the number of people actually in care homes in the different boroughs and so that having been said and I didn't a chur I don't quite a few questions that some
pochettino to tell the community so the Committee members have been meeting regularly and after our meetings I our capture the debate and turn it into questions and the first questions and I think may have slipped through the net because you're recalled chair and when we had an informal meeting on the 8th of May and others request to send in question has send them to you at the top with your leave I can read those two out now of prompt one of my many devices I was got some other questions on another device and so the first question and additional Councillor Howard intimated she was wishing to attend under Standing orders Councillor Howard is in attendance pitcher had notified at this stage that you wish to contact book and I'm sure she can drop you know but she might want to elaborate and when I can't be end of and these questions the first questions and did come from an and it's really is the Council of where that a number of Lucian residents who have not been deemed eligible Fattal social care provision of financing their own private carers to meet their care needs that seems to be no monitoring as to whether these services are being provided in a safe manner with workers and patients being protected by workers having access to good quality PP it is a Council able to throw any light on the situation with access to knowledge of the private workforce and we assumed such workers and employers agree registered and regulated I'm and the second one prompt and an agenda this goes back a couple of these and many Lucian residents need to have follow up treatment for non covert medical conditions but are fearful of attending hospital appointments are also being put back my consultants and
jujus is thought to concerns about patient safety is Lewisham Greenwich a trust able to provide the data for us so better for us to question the very similar one thing thanks john adjusted before us for the Reince that gay and what is going on with the screen and what information is trying to be at put forward to us and is it relevant
because I can't really say it for Pulp's councils by feel abstract up and flatted could X it could stretch it
I'm just another chance just populous charge from that documents education hold get those charge just focus on the charge and just how it made them his biggest possible that'd be great there I'll hand over to Kevin and Kim there for those questions please thank you OK thank you and
thank you for the question was around co-funders and and funding their own care through private providers I have come back to you on the specifics of the details of that unafraid it wouldn't be the something height I'd no off top my head but in any event they should be am see to see registered before an anybody and users unaware aware of that we can make sure that we were checking their fully compliant with any CQC registration unafraid I don't know the detail of that
and I I can't answer on behalf of their
the trust has regarding the uprating reduction of operations and our people dying in hospital for appointments and so on and I know that thirdly a letter I received today from anti Bland whose the and accountable officer there certainly doing all they can to support campaigns to encourage people to pump the hospitals particularly those at risk of at strokes and heart attacks and or parents of young children to encourage them to come to hospital if they're feeling unwell and but I'm sure the next all Member briefing then Travis will be able to answer that my questioning more detailed item from the fund to see prosecco like skim the job before you come out again can or cannot can we say people if I didn't have time to look at the chart and maybe we can we can go back to the normal screen
and if possible
I'm in your hands that's cool for that you need it to go forward with their job well I'm not at the moment but some I will refer to as late as a preferred people can they won't have paper copies with they can look on their devices and referred the e-mail sent out two hours ago OK if you if if colleagues considered a board and all you tried of behind when I come on to the next question which again our Chief Executive may well be something that I will take up with the CEO of the Trust but it's it's a from month from a cancer Elliott and
and it's about the reduction in council referrals or rip patients with suspected cancer symptoms and the that some covert free Hubs had been set up and done what the question was was was this being included on the Council website for local residents to discover Ka-band either to also covert heart hubs illusion one in the northern one in the south and our residents being made aware of that through the council website so early those from and answered postion out
On the question of cancer referrals and again that that wouldn't be something I'd I'd know an amount going for good effect on the on it on the day council covert hub web page in Isis heart for your question around over the Council of referrals and the last so that is something to to raise the all member we can bend Travis present again the heart has yeah you're right there are 2 and again off the top of my head I don't know whether there on the Council's website the certain included in the FA queues that the call centre staff have so that they can answer any queries on on that but that they refer will only to there wouldn't be something that we'd routinely publicised could there not for people just turn up there with FAS now on staff how they work by the figure so now the my priest submitted questions in my own right as it were which are answered in the and the mother came round just over two hours ago and and the first question was what are the mortality rates for numbers of deaths from COVID-19 illusion how they compare with the rest of London and there is a chart attached to that question
I just wanted to do you have any comments on our Chief Executive
I know nothing more to add to that other than in the written response to Councillor Muldoon thank you and and then there's a similar question regarding care homes and again up with a caviar I gave before that we don't have a uniform distribution of care homes across the London boroughs do you have any comments on that
what other than doing this which physicist magic allowances what can you draw from the data can you draw any conclusions
from my conclusions if there that the data or as laid out in the written response that you've got to you but yes I would acknowledge that yet it by far it's not uniform by any stretch with us
London and I think this year perhaps some correlation with the numbers of care homes and the sadly the number of deaths that occur in them I get for my final question is about of dentists and opticians and and an optician certainly Rushey Green Ward have got sign the siting of closed except for optical emergencies as well stuff and and I wonder what for to given to supporting the smaller ones linked to that though is has been much and much publicity about dentists who do seem to fall between arm of the various traps in whether they can eligible for any support and there are rumours of one in five dentists going bankrupt and it's looked like slightly to the rateable value and as was I will give you any comments and again it this may well be something for the thick of the commissioners to respond to in due course but whether you any thoughts about about the public health of the people of Lewisham if they're unable to get optical Karen dental care we hear stories of people putting their own teeth out I hope we wouldn't go that far in Lewisham
OK thank you for that and so in the written response to be provided some information regarding the the financial support that might be available but I see just as important is the public health support that we should provide to a critical dental and an optician's that we got in the borough so and our public Health team will be providing advice guidance supports training of its needed on taking Seppi p to those opticians and dentists as a when they're able to open so will be able to give you advice and support financially but also very important to our public Health team your broccoli it might good the than pie Jean and and I site are obviously important I thank you very much as John
Councillor Carter please
thank you Chair I've got to to substantial questions on one little one the first one refers to page 3 5 point 1 and the objectives there I mean the objectives are great and throughout the report you get a feeling for how we're doing against some of them and some maybe it's too early to say like
the objective to facilitate recovery that some I just wondered if perhaps Kim and calving could comment as to what extent we will know we've achieve these objectives and it gets to the you know to the to some sort of report the number of months time you know who whose monitoring their achievement now and you know is that so of independently done or we mark in our own homework that those sort of things I comment on that would be useful then factor one that that Liam mentioned Kim did give an answer I thought she was about to answer my question didn't quite manage it it was 6 point 1 1 6 point 11 on page 9 about this we hear so you answered that we're getting 1 point 6 million for lotion you got to report or or request for the funds by Friday
you mentioned the CCG and some health partners but I wondered if trade unions and care homeowners have had an opportunity to to feed into that
and
finally my sort of small question I guess again a bit like the last set that section since the report was written as probably an update and it might be in those questions that we've asked in advance
but on page 14 at 6 point 4 5 we were the statistics said we returned and 66 thousand 314 councils for forgetting these grants out and I just wondered if there was an update on on that any any up-to-date figures thank you
the fact that the
thank you and good question on the strategy and objectives councillor hard and that will be something as part of the the lessons learnt but we would want to give some sense of how we think we've done against those objectives but I think that will be more along the lines of an internal process rather than it being so the externally validated although I know the the LGA had just started prior to this rolling out some pay reviews of business resilience and emergency planning so I suspect in the in the light of this that that whole process might be
amended slightly to ensure that it's picking up any the lessons learnt from from poverty but and that would be my intention
around the objectives you then asked about 6 point 11 around the testing care homes at care homeowners certainly are involved in that because there are certain specific questions that that you have to ask each care home and you can only really get the answers if you're engaging with the owners and the managers which would be doing on a very very very regular basis throughout the last and wait for this won't be the first ankle contact they get for West I can assure you
as for the trade unions and I don't know off the top of my head so again I'll have to at a checking come back to you on that and on the business grants and might have seen might have some data some more information I could give on their finances but perhaps I can come back to that chair if I'll try and find it if you want to take the next questions and I can come back with an update that's why churn
I could help them if it if it's OK I I just I I thought you might ask this question saw I gave Dave an Austin a quick ring before we before we mess and he tells me the said that the latest statistics others 3 thousand 400 businesses eligible 2 thousand 800 of them have had their grant that submit 37 million quid with dished out the 6 of businesses that were currently now looking to see and visit individually so that we can actually take them forward and hopefully finish that job off which has been as proven more difficult than we anticipate in the first place but that's the intention is to get a get all the grant down and I mean it was there was some misinformation from the government initially I think in terms of the numbers that we had and that had to be dealt with as well but the still a little way to go yet
back to cabinet and development for the Christian path gas thank you Belka thank you very much OK if I can call on Councillor Millbank please thank you Chair I switched a couple of questions in advance and I see that there's response being given in the e-mail so I don't want to go over those again but I just wanted to make the comment on the first bit which was to do with the community response Section 5 point 1 2 2 5 20 1 and the partnership working just pleased to hear the comments of the Chief Exec that we're looking to supports a stain
cross-sector partnership working going forward into recovery and beyond I shall look forward to more details that in due course and the other question I asked was around and Adult social Care 6 point 3 to 6 point 11 and again you've clarified my question in terms of whether the Care Act easements Ben potentially might they be used and and how we're mentioned situation and again I just want to make a comment just to say I note with the with great interest that when this Bill legislation came in one of the first things that notion Council did was to actually talk to members the disability people's condition which I think is the right way so thank you for that and I shall look forward to hearing any further comments from then a railed and adult social care staff as a when the issues of wise thank you
Back John Councillor Mallory
thank you to mine is not a question it's a kind or more of a report on public accounts because other Members of Overview and Scrutiny business Panel will remember that I reported last time that public accounts members had not met yet and the main reason for that is I didn't feel we had a substantial of it we had substantive enough information on the council budget and progress being made against the the the money that's likely to come in from the government had now my information now is that we are likely to get a report out at the beginning of next week which will be in preparation for Mayor and Cabinet on the 10th of June and I think it's in my apologies to viewed scrutiny business Panel but because of the timing I he were meeting before were able to get that report and because I think that it's really important that we as Members say something to Mayor and Cabinet and we're going to Members the public accounts to going to be meeting on the 4th of June and obviously other members are perfectly able to come if they want but the report should be out sometime next week and certainly before the 4th of June if it's not we're ready banjaxed but the the important thing I wanted to say is that that I mean what we would hope is by then we will have sufficient information on the gap between spending and likely funding from the government I'm I'm told and I think it's reassuring we've seen from him from reports from David Austin already that the council is preparing separate budget had for a spending on on Covert related items and on existing services and I think there are a whole range of related issues such as loss of income the delays in implementing the cuts
and the limited there the limited reductions in spending there might have been and also perhaps in more of great interest a number of Members the use of reserves in doing that it's my intention and that part of the reason why we're having that meeting is it's my intention to go to Mayor and Cabinet I'm with some of the concerns that we expect you know that we have as a result of seeing those figures
in much greater clarity and I think and I hope other Members would agree with me I think this will give us an opportunity and I intend to say the Mayor and Cabinet that it may not it may be that officers couldn't possibly comment but I think we will want to have a communications strategy in and around the fact that there is going to be a shortfall of considerable shortfall between what the government now says there are expecting to be pay us and and what they said they would pay us because it we should spend what it takes and I think we need to be very upfront with our community about what that entails because of the gap is going to be big and I think the way in which the government will have an I can say this will have in all likelihood let us down considerably needs to be promoted and publicised so that's my report Chair and apologies as a say to Members that we haven't been able to say anything earlier but I didn't think it was relevant for as long as there wasn't a substantial report to four of which we could do we could scrutinise that's gym get before calling Councillor Bernard shows the last Council of blood on my less of his item though a got a check with them comfortably shall in a moment African why what I was going to say before you have any questions to Councillor Mallory on on his as report there for many business panel members there to shout out of the ears of the not out the that as a no in which case I repeat tackles of Burnage please
thank you to
My question is to is around mental health due to this Covic maintain thing does tell a CA the disproportionality that term and that BME has been them
affected both by the government and the deaths that that smart does not that case their mental health is also disproportionate we know we're not because the data that we have effect the be me and it is more so at this time of the current Tim and therefore like to ask if there is any data the term be son numbers of the people who had been sectioned in a mental Health Act and has increased in an in year by year where we are now because of the impact of the COVID-19 thank you
I thank Peter I came from
thank you for that Councillor Rogers and I'll come back to you with the specific details of that but just to give a reassurance we are very mindful of that the impact on individuals' mental health and well-being not just in terms of yeah that the that the personal impacted their bereaved but also the the general impact of the the big the covert any source now going to be alongside the package of support we put in place for our workforce and are or partners as also to be mental health prevention summit held on the 2nd of June and that will be bringing together a number of partners organised buying at the NHS that will set out the principal trained Hind a new 12 month targeted programme of prevention
aimed at people who previously have not had access to mental health services but what may well find the pressure of coded 19 impacting on them individually and that their mental wellbeing and so that will also look patch near the impact on people had been bereaved the disproportionate impact of 19 urbane community the rise of domestic violence the loss of jobs the uncertainty and that's quite it himself isolation and so on that's something that were playing a key part in with our health partners because it is something that's that's really important for so again happy to report back to Members on what that programme and looks like going forward over the next 12 months
Peter
yes thank you very much for a TV executive file I appreciate the the August you are your promise to come back to me about term I'm still waiting for some other matters which was to ask some other time ago especially now on the best thing that this particular things on the BME and you have discussions and I have not heard those answers so could deal players' measure that to happen please assure me actually happen so how can I do apologise I I have I assume there been recorded it previous minutes as action so I'll I'll I'll Mitchell Kevin's catching those will get back to your deposit Jai's
the inevitable chase that up to visit pylon was together to get answers to what you're looking for and Peter I am now in Königsberg 21 second I can see I did say I guess I can see Councillor jumpers she'll become back if John conjures waiver from correct that he wants to ask a question an understatement if you just raises his hand nor OK Councillor Jack pursue was shakier and does she want to ask and her and a third question on this item if she can just see you name please
yeah I am here and I do trust the question how shall pursue
I go for a job I'll me right OK
I I did put a question and we've mission turn on the committee who depart Christian on the but asking about the lake the security of the lake in Beckenham Place OK I've now been sent an e-mail by Councillor Giguère the answers it for me but doesn't answer doesn't answer to the question publicly I have heard that there's been some misbehavior around the lake and is it's not particularly covert safety that I'm worried about but safety all told because then people were very concerned about the late last summer and if at the moment isn't lifeguarded although it's being patrolled I am still concerned about the safety of people who might use it ill-advisedly
5 Jack cabin would you like to make any comment J on on that question please yeah I'm finds for the question on on on very conscious of are as you can imagine of of the the risks around the lake particularly the in a hot weather so I I have asked the path team to increase the level of patrolling around and also asked them to you know have a look at the signage and make sure that that's all to up-to-date
so for me this is one of our high risk areas so it gets special attention especially attention particularly when the weather is hot and yes there have been a few breaches when went when when when the fencing is breached we do act on it and we do going get the people out of there as quickly as possible so you know my concern absolutely right to have a concern about and it's my concern as well
facts cabin
let's hope lie motor stop working or not working again that was scary second I'm okay so unless any last minute I'm looking in the chat if a can with be most
and last-minute comments or questions from members of the of the from councillors which I don't believe that is can we thank Kim and Kevin for this item than oak adjusted some in pupil over the last minute comes to jump issue I have questions or need the joint use for this item OK Councillor John pursue
they think that the Chair just had to write unlike you I am looking at 3 screens at once so I had so that it more button system nasty audio effect happening no I was just saying it twice in the trachea I would like to ask questions on items 7 and 8 of your agenda not this item

4 Key Decision Plan

at a clarification thanks job OK so good with permission yet of always air so we're gonna go on to the next item which is supporting walking and cycling response for to the corvid and Demick and we have confirmed McGeever the cabinet member could we also just shout out the officers that we have here for this item please
you are going to look at your Louise McBride and you'll Sigott Alex Cross concern
David thank you very much so the any officers all the cabinet member wished to make any comments with regards to the report before we go to questions
if his how IT I could give him traction but if you if you don't require it in your straight questions it's up to you to ease innocence it's anything you want to highlight pug doubt or or make make clear and if not to go to questions it's up to you what you like
am I hereby quicker you just to introduce the kind of pertinent points or more it he said thanks very much for the opportunity and I think just to highlight you would want experience that we've had kind of a significant impact on our daily lives as a result of the covert 19 pounds HMIC and that's had an impact on transport and travel in the city and in Lewisham also the easing of those looked down and restrictions also presented number challenges which are unprecedented and so it's imperative that we respond to those challenges and provide a safe environment for for our presence to this report brings forward and arrange of as measures to respond to that specific challenge and provide a safe environment in which to support walking or cycling and also more importantly to enable social distance protect public health and safety we've been developing a range of measures and we are ahead of the game on this as a result of that work that has done and it responded to and it is in alignment with them a number of guidance documents that have been issued in their in past couple of weeks so section 4 of the report Co sets out the context in which we're with Kanye considering those measures and I think putting it once at an eight other safety and you'll have seen that there's been reports of kind of increased speeding as a result of the lower traffic levels and as the movement level start to increase those concerns become more and prominent and also the limitations that there will be on public transport capacity so cheerful have set out that even with operating full services will be operating with social distance

3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response [REPORT TO FOLLOW]

thank you thank Hastie so the need to get those people who are able to to walk and cycle in an environment which is safe is is more pressing as the heating lockdown is is restricted section 5 of the report sets out the types of measures and the principles of the approach and this will be a officer delegated decision and say which is facilitated through the scheme of Delegation and Aussie to respond to an emergency situation we do want to introduce these measures as soon as possible so unfortunate there isn't the time to do the usual public consultation process that would be associated with with transport schemes normally and but there is a commonplace platform for people to express their view and should these measures should there be an appetite for them to be made permanent then the public consultation stage would be part of that formal process
so as I hope you can appreciate it's a fast moving picture there are a number of unknowns that are still in play
this time but we feel that these measures and at the top puts us in the best possible situation to respond and to those challenges and provide that safe environment for for residence factual as a whole by some water their songs Lake Eyre please don't get on stopping up or drink nobody looks lies I have before our open it up to dare Colly's additionally to clarify with Councillor pursue John a constituent fortunately but you to state clearly what the ancient or that you all that you want to come in on this visit different genders knocking around in his only be clear fleet
it is stated them
closure I some 7 and 8 on your agenda they are being got on yet I was just Compostela than place well item 76 slew vision of press and public and I to make his decision it's laid by the Mayor and Cabinet
on the 13th of May alone particularly I want to ask what she those item 8 Roman to which is the smarter EP smarter working position Aiken by their and their thanks and help
for its inclusion it under Item 7 chair thanks John that clarified that thank you very hadn't made that for and the other comment I made in the chat was because it was a very stately public I feel which I was also monitoring was showing somebody editing of document which probably wasn't intended indeed thanks again gender justice candidate gap and hopefully uncanny later
OK so I have Councillor Campbell
followed by Councillor Lamb will do Councillor card comes LeBeau not Councillor sober and then we have Councillor Ingleby indicated they would like a question so he come in then so Councillor Campbell please
thank you Chair and mine comments really I improved in support of the principles of their core and I'm happy for the sorry can you hear that as terrible sorry over loudly Norbury hearts in here really I was thinking about the the Head of Highways and Transport taking a lead on the temporary measures but I
I am concerned that the person would also be able to make changes and additions on the work stream without any scrutiny or without anybody else up in any input on it that's that bit I was also gonna talk although Luis did say that you know it's it's a fast nuthin and we haven't got time to consultation that even the platform of common place it only really had allows a certain cohort to really access to any certain people access them even in their time with suddenly realised that there's a lot of digital poverty out there and so and just raising that and then around the review of the once this is all in place is going to be reviewed in the six months the review is six months off six months now want clarity is that after the implementation of the Tito's and their TT are ends and is that from now we starting right now so six months from now that there will be review those make sense Louise
I want to thank you thanks Juliette Lewis OK say thanks very much be questions I think on the commonplace platform recognise the concerns that that Ellie's accessible to her to a certain type responded I think he in normal circumstances we would be doing additional measures that would make that format more accessible and increase drop-in sessions at like an awfully at the minute we haven't got the ability to do that with that kind of quick restrictions in place and so we can get that some awful to about whether there are alternative methods in which to make common officers available to answer questions on tape comments C balancing that with with a timescale thing that we need to respond quickly to this emerging picture particular with restrictions being lifted in in the next couple of weeks more fully as well and but we'll give that some consideration and review is six months from when they're the measures are implemented so in terms of time scales we would anticipate that some of the measures don't require difficult isn't son do as set out in the report those that do it would be a six month period from when those measures are implemented with the associated traffic order or temperature fit notice and make your concerns about the delegation of earthy and Kanye changes to the programme without scrutiny I think you that is in in response to be able to be responsive valley and respond at as quickly as possible and I wouldn't cut make any changes that
I wouldn't consider appropriate professionally and but still there is that consultation with the Cabinet Member as well which is referred to in the report and see we can come back and do a further report to scrutiny at an appropriate time to kind of feedback on how it's going and any changes that have been made him the impact it has had
OK thanks thank Louise and I'm looking at Juliet's ructions your kid you for yet before calling Councillor Mal do I just want to remind all lie colleagues that this is a pre-decision scrutiny so this is a chance to put forward thoughts at the state of the draft report if as any things that good offer that you want to highlight the change going forward than this is the opportunity festival Dune please thank you trap and my question or two questions in fact are both about common place I I'm only 5 of digital engagement absolutely as part of a overawe
platform multi-channel platform engagement including letter drops freepost address freephone number e-mail addresses so that's my first point I think simply using commonplace alone is inadequate second question though why choose commonplace
Louise Kate say I take the correct about the the inadequacy of using commonplace in animal and as with the previous question will get that consideration as to whether it can be supplemented in terms of why commonplace and might bring him my colleague and I explained I do understand and that it has been used previously on a number of applications and is an consultations and its current well versed in terms of they can it even know how to use it and have the ability to can provide those comments but it over the Alex is there anything else you want to say that point in particular
I think you've covered the main points I mean a sleaze the said we have used it on a number of other local stations and it is simple to use it's very visual in its presentation so we thought that I was the most appropriate channel
a supplementary and do think drill commonplace and has some weaknesses in an about partners of being able to capture and interpret data
I I would say that perhaps no no platform is perfect and you have to make some come judgement as to what is beneficial and the drawbacks of that and put that into the mix and so I suspect it does have cut have disadvantages but in the round it was there were concerned reasons as to why that capital was selected
OK job come those sound reasons be shared I'm sure
I think it was to do with the usability for them and forgive me of anything post for for a short while so Alex could you propose expanding absolutely it was to do with that it was that we have an existing relationship were commonplace they have a database of users that they can communicate the message out to at help promote what we're doing which was quite attractiveness as you rightly say it's important we capture as wide an audience as possible and speed was also the essence in terms of the emergency nature of these measures and we do have a direct procurement route with them
a job
comment
OK I'm obviously maybe the system think we agitated to pre decision scrutiny so physicians that arise that we more information of look further and obviously we can do that before going to add caucus becoming was to leave early coaching for a family and commitments so I'm going to let Councillor Cohen dive in ahead of as others OK
as yet to leave at 20 50 Councillor current thank you very much teacher for involvement sounds apologist to colleagues as well and that I have to go and for jumping in advance it's really as simple as 2 point sexual once the make so this is what I made last time but I do think that we don't have enough scrutiny are available at the moment and so I believe if we don't start restoring or other scrutiny functions we will only we will be missing a lot scrutiny for six months all the way to September as is currently envisaged and with people going back to work and shopping shops opening and everything that that I think people will ask why can't we get back to normal or something more I do it I do appreciate offices next to this to this item in his question as we've that got at discussed before Councillor current
it is because obviously there's not a lot of time
the because we don't have enough scrutiny s putting all
second point chair relevant directly to the item is in terms of consulting with the public or informing the public especially under this current situation I think him her I would be grateful if officers and I don't expect police to respond to give an answer now obviously but I would ask if officers can investigate the or option of texting members of the public if they sign up because for a lot of people who don't have easy access to the internet they do use texting and co general COVID-19 messaging service
to sign into may be very very helpful I would find it very useful myself as a member of the public to find out what the Council was doing because I can't stretch across all the functions all the time so I just wanted to put that down there and sacred by and thank you
I say goodbye and thank you distance listen to the Wiese's response first that let me a k so I think Selly take the point and considered that with with colleagues for the longer term and I'll see you such as simply didn't expect me to answer on the text when now saying and what will come of consider that and I think it's unlikely that intends a timescale that would be brought in in terms of these excite these measures but perhaps as we go forward them and all of the measures in the programmes and it can be explored and just the other point to raise on the on the consultation and see if these measures are and but welcomed by the local communities and there is a desire for them to be moved and and retained on the mouth more permanent places than we won't be telling moving to an experimental traffic which in itself and extensive traffic order sorry which in itself includes a statutory public consultation period so people would have the opportunity and therefore we would then how those different platforms available to engage with the widest range of people possible
as Luis Councillor card please
thank you Chair couple of other one substantial question I think which is installations FU
the 5 point for the sexual school streets
On page show there isn't a patient on the section 5 point for school streets
I know insular some of our schools are that made began school streets and wondering if there's a sort of a I don't know how far you look at the consequences of installing a school St that if a school St is just off a busy road or a main road and you close the street the school is in I guess there's a danger that some of the parents and start dropping children off in the main road yeah they'll still drive but dropped out in the main road and that may cause other problems and I just wanted to check that taken into account when you're considering were were School Street should be when a couple of sort of comments about
statistics and things in the report the policy context and you can ignore them if you like but I just want to drop them in a couple of times it's mentioned there's been an observed increasing speeding and dangerous driving on the roadway Network but my experiences this Fourlis because as far less traffic so I'm wondering if when it should really say just for accuracy is there's those baps more as a percentage of the drivers are on the road rather than you know more of it
better minor thing and we talk about 3 point 2
a high proportion of footways they're not wide enough to safely accommodate social distancing practices and therefore and sure that what we've done is
prioritise that because we won't be able to do all the footways in the borough that on wide enough some shall prioritising the busiest places but do we know you know is the some statistic somewhere that again you then have to give me now that shows how much how many of our footways not wide enough and how many would the proposed measures actually changing my guess is going to be a very small percentage that we actually are able to do at this stage and just wondered if could shed any light on that thank you Chair banks pack
Louise or
just underscore streets point that those sorts of impacts and unintended consequences that you've waste would be taken into consideration as part of the current assessment as to this to when the school St is appropriate or not and how we mitigate potential impact like that that at the outset and I'll see we also need to look across the programme of measures that were suggesting and how they interact and whether actually suffer the kind of measures being promoted as part of that kind of restricting access and modal filters to support walking cycling would kind of fear says suitable station for a particular school so we are looking at in that kind of broadest sense and in terms of the Staten I'll see you take take the comments and will review that in terms of finalising and that the decision reporting that the information that we have from tier fell is that there has been a reported increase in speeding vehicles and because of the lower traffic levels at we've asked for further more detailed data of what sits behind that and I'm there's just when kind of discussion with the police about that and I would have to come back to you and whether there's any data kind of set or an asset management plan that shows what the width of the footway is Emil centred we might be addressing the as you say with the money that is available and and the kind of speed which we want to introduce these measures were not going to be able to address that across the borough so we are prioritising the locations that are busiest than or where there are particular road safety concerns or the correlate with it with the Strategic cycle Network so get its that layering effect as to to where that investment and that priority should be given across the borough
thank you for that
back to the Dodgers quickly comments to Councillor Carter that the and my experience up using the road because you're going very fast as a lot lot less on the roads but unadorned my own experience than going very very very fat and go through the list of air speakers questioners will have next Councillor Bernard Shaw the Millbank and
then Councillor is asking to take part and say the business Panel outcomes' Ingleby pursued Jack Leo Lubkowski Sarfati's and then Councillor Campbell if we have time as indicated she would like to come back in on this and will ever come back to that then so Councillor Bernard please
thank you to us some of you may know that the just the terrible accident in the my ward in the forest trail a term onerous road under some of this measures
Mary's sympathies with those all those involved and to thank the police and emergency services that attended the same this measures are very good and I welcome them but got this question of them the criteria I don't understand the criteria used to select the places that term o are deemed fit to implement them
given the term some of these roads are narrow 0 well they the public transport users there whether this 2 buses can learn actually pass each other and then also that the
removing some parking bays in front of soul a small shops who were definitely struggling at the moment that you're to contain under between are they just turn the adjusted making the business afloat the does my goes rusty surviving it it'll game it would have been better much for much better if the public and I've been involved especially the own on some of the roads which have seen identified here and then he under on this report and that the town removing those few spaces they will have a very big impact on the few shops that are on them and the and another one is then have there been any
voted on to the emergency services said via cause fire brigade than others because of Sinn that about a wordplay get missed it but what would force that given a thought and also the cost of Cilla figure here of 160 thousand
well it's not to the cost of hiring the balance and gonna be put in in the tender the road the road them under the cycling and walking ways and them impetus for buying can we have the cost of because you're under put you said there will be a review with them with a view of making them permanent we'll we'll be giving us a cost of hiring listings all buying them because I was as you say Don't be a view or what really Review interview of they can permanence of illness as a weather time comes
but those are my my my question is please thank you
thanks teacher there are potentially
the case centred on the criteria and we we've used and a range of information to inform where the measures would be required across the borough and that is hundred dependent and there is between the different projects that are outlined in the report so we've had feedback from a number of kind of
stakeholders so for example Lewisham pedestrians submitted a list of locations where they thought that it was difficult to achieve social distancing where the interaction of cannot queuing for sharp sand can narrow if it weighs me that difficult to do so we've taken into account those views where possible where we've got data so previous studies that have been done about traffic flows and and routes in the borough which are more prone to rat running and for traffic to be using them as a as a through route as can of let us to tick a routes where we think there is a risk that that traffic would return to and were therefore needs to be prioritised for for the modal filters the measures along key corridors for for cycling and walking again is associated with the keen networks and Russia points so of tearful have indicated that they are own going to be funding these measures where it creates a Strategic cycle Network it can affect slow traffic neighbourhoods and creates more it more space for pedestrians and cyclists town centres then and transport hubs so we take it into account a range of data and evidence that we have available together with and views of stakeholders on a solution
the students and also officers own experience or knowledge of of the network to to provide that and there are paragraphs in the report which just cut up highlight those those criteria but as you can appreciate its doing given besting pet valuable information we got to prioritise that list
we have been liaising with the emergency services throughout this process and having detailed discussions with them about the measures proposed and their views those discussions are ongoing and Oxley whilst you're week there is a need to conserve but these measures in place and response of the emergency that has to be coloured tailored with the kind of benefits that will bounce with the benefits that would be delivered as a result of these measures and enabling keyworkers to to get to work and also those people who are not able to walk and cycle no freeing up capacity on public transport that's already and to be significantly limited for for those people's well barn on the cost we we've had discussions amongst officers about the trade-off of and arts between costs of buying equipment and also hiring it and and what the long term financial implications of that are and I'll see we are not alone in doing the sorts of measures so the demand on that sort of infrastructure is quite significant from other boroughs as well so we are taking steps to to secure that that is available to us should the measures be made permanent than costs would be included at that point but if you wanted a more detailed breakdown we can try and get back
it
that filter out of thought to the term that the best starting point is taking on the data of the that accident will how we have had with the we have some fatality of cyclists under it all and I'm 0 Lahm Israel you know you'll know that in Forest Hill this one particular spot where cycle the start in in a in a much higher and much danger about is not included on this report and the other thing is that disabled people would make nominee to pack across at where the going to shopping and while this one is been removed those thus facility is available to be there so there will be impacted negatively no going forward because it's not auspices of Dublin and limited than a parking spaces for the shop thank Peter before as well answer to that question can I just I encourage her to wear
sat in any particular suggestions where you an awful conscience of identified an area of danger to cyclists and as I say that his pre-decision scrutiny that the time to put forth these things so I would urge you to wear may contact outside the meeting with details of the all proposals officers please
just if I pick up the that sable parking quite so see where we are impacting on general disable parking the kind of mitigating factor for that is that is the patch so those people with the most severe limitations on their mobility worked out the blue badge in that kind of affords them special privileges that wouldn't be available to other people were affecting specifically dedicated disabled baddies or general disabled parking bays we would looked to re-provide those close to destinations as possible and as it currently stands man standing as we're not specifically affecting indicate it and parking bays but when very mindful about when developing proposals and looking re-provide on specific location in Forest Hill and more than happy for you to get in touch and not familiar with with the specific location you are referring to but we can catch discuss that outside meeting
thankfully with additional consumer does indicate that the Khademi
such like Councillor Mowat thank you thank you just went down there are few seconds a French better get a move on the next speaker question Councillor Sobel please
thank you both thank you for the report so as a as are other paid-up supporter of Greenpeace for 38 years
I am delighted to see the environmental at positives the benefits coming out over of these measures and as a scrutiny chair I'd like to echo some of the concerns raised by my colleagues around and consultation now the of course in an emergency
no one has to respond rapidly and we have the legal powers to use temporary of regulation notices and temporary traffic orders are provided we can show that there is a danger to public safety
I am this is all it is all well and good and my question is about the longer term sort of transport roads policy at present why it's great to know stakeholders about important offices thinking and even the common place
portal at doesn't really allow the general public to be consulted because until the locations of the measures of published it's very difficult for members of the public to give informed views on and what we propose and I think we have to acknowledge that we are working slightly you know slightly in the dark in terms of our public and my Mike Mayan main issue is I think it's important about this review PIP this moment of review because Section 10 of our corporate strategy and does make very clearly that we are committed as a Council to become more open transparent and we are committed to increase public involvement in decision making and I think it must be very we should make clear to the public that the powers we use an emergencies and the thinking that we employ in the consultation we employ when it comes to achieving our long term objectives are two different things they may end up with the same measures but in in terms of governance in I see in this very different things I think it's very important we don't slide from an emergency situation into longer term without sitting back and reviewing and refreshing and including as many members of the public in as many different ways as my colleagues have pointed out and as possible and to that end I was wondering whether the Committee might be minded to recommend that the the delegated authority to the Executive Director be time limited to
to prompt you know a return to discussion with elected members at an appropriate moment thank you Chair
I can't get the point out as it had paid the ticket Scrutiny what it when not a gluttony decisions in flight call in anything like that or refer back to the man it had on open for comment and I'm sure offices another taking note of the various comments and punchy and raised by a member to the Panel so we can make whatever commented suggestion relate in this pre-decision a arena officers please
take the comments I think it's not the intention to has to slide from one type of measure to another and and certainly in terms of and the review and Next stages of consultation should the measure be desired and I'm people want to keep it on a more permanent basis we will absolutely have more time to plan for that and I'll see hopefully by that point the restrictions that are currently constraining us in terms of and face-to-face contact will hopefully things crossing be in in place or or a severe
so we can certainly think about that in our planning for the next stage and as the reviewed and in terms of the delegation my understanding is that the the delegation to to the Executive Director is in accordance with the scheme delegation as it currently stands so that's as it's it's about traffic orders and and the executive director has the authority to make that decision but if there is like I said previously and desire for us to come back and and report to Scrutiny on on the progress made and on the impact in that we can plan that in as well
Banks Luis above the Executive Director here I think but I look all him unless he wishes to speak and Councillor Millbank please thank you Chair my questions already been put by other colleagues thank you then exit has ever John on like agreed thank you very much for that them
Councillor Councillor before Councillor Campbell I would like to call some of the Councillor Trotman as the business panel and I'm going to list them now for the again just for the record that older would become less Ingleby in a moment then Councillor pursuit Jack Councillor Gibbons Krymski Davies so firstly could ask Councillor Ingleby please
yes can you thank you Chair I can you hear me
it's OK thank you this is I think this is a Haley's Comet moment when we couldn't predict but it's a great opportunity to the these proposals and particularly a particularly like the the modal filters project the key corridors in the school streets project aside to questions on her suggestion both Council McGeever and myself as cycling champion coming we'd getting crocked with her quite a bit of heat and shall we call it impatient anticipation from supporters of these historically they Lucian cyclists about so I just wondered push again when might we for no when we're going the modal filters where the locations of the Wenders this sort of hit the road and it gets going because each day driving down the the roads that had been more cars on the roads as a sense in cycling community the or are we going to miss the opportunity to pursue a knock but her would be great to know Hammett close regard to at the next stage secondly the the school the perky corridors it's great that here foul of affect up on our work on you to the Lucious by NI 21 and are suggesting that for for for the project I am still amazed that we have that they're they're not also considering the section from Catford out to down which arguably is the part of the 20 where there's it's Sir whether or to lazily Sadie's more like a race track and even tear fell statistics for example by the junction early Beckenham Place Park upset Phoenix where the been accidents so it really I'm and giving it the they track the outcome definition study that Sir this being done it just makes complete sense to carry on and do that section as well so
be greatly from every we could get that as well my suggestion is something I read recently nerve and and cyclists magazine about how to Top Tips for school streets in terms of engagement and they suggesting the double buggy tests Our School Street Champions on the teaching staff and communicating with Heritier associations this is something we could start now even though said that the schools in a sort of flux perhaps PTS got more time to answer e-mails and could get into the discussion so I mean that's a suggestion so we start to get in line with Council dude another's Commons the we can widen the communication process during this process as much as possible mitigated the part participation of everybody in we can win this
that's it
thanks Mark before as far response can I just say welcome to HJ Councillor share can she has joined us and to say a conflict-free we haven't got to the item of the their forward plans or you'll attend at your question directly
and also Councillor Mallory and what he has to leave us at 9 o'clock soul if we don't get to speak before then and easterly goals as we know can also good by the councillor Mallory now am and on a basis it felt Louison of this can respond to mark his yet suddenly say
taking those comments and suggestions in order so and of the as I said previously we want to introduce these measures as soon as possible and and were aware that the current announcement needs to be made or on what the locations arm and with we're looking to do that in the next week or so and then once the decision has been made with reporting that hopefully the measures will be introduced within a two to three week period to we still have some communications to do with Council contractors to make sure they get up and it to implement these measures as seems possible but as officers working us as has weakened to get these out there publicly and also in place on the streets and as soon as possible as well to make sure that that opportunity is not lost one particularly as it becoming more pressing with the traffic levels starting to increase again
or on a key corridor the 21 we've been talking to two of our regarding those measures and at Ataturk making the point that we also believe that they should be extending that corridor and beyond Catford and and not just focusing on that section we are with me that point them in various meetings and we're due to have a catch up with them on their design process and to get some feedback on on their position on that point as well so we can update members as and when we get that
I note your suggestion in relation to the school streets and we are in Colley in conversation with colleagues from education and said will pick that up with them about appropriate communications out and to try and get them but can cation coloured and the Champions in place facts Luis before us construct the shield ask a question or go to add one that feel put in there by Council of a large which I can't read now cause an even as part of their because so if you just read a contagion over this one please and then go to Jack
Councillor Bernard has asked have you looked at the Bartlett School data you know that the what that means or not will do
what specifically Alex isn't even continue OK one were to come back to that one Peter Jack bishops'
yes I can refer to the paper's won't willing him for dinner in the meeting but soon I'm a little bit concerned over it somewhere about taking out parking bays I noticed on down the throat that there was a remark on taking up parking there are no small independent shops have taken a fairly significant knock we being closed during the crisis so far and and in the past they've said that they suffer most if that that sort of parking bay are taken out and so I am concerned about ha of this might affect small independent shops if they parking bays are taken out and also how are people still continue to park even though Bob can bays are being taken out the effect Level narrow roads of buses getting through and the things like them thank Jack I wonder if Lee or Councillor given his record ask his question now if you ask it now in answer them altogether or you are all happy to do that now Lille how yeah I'm I'm you that
yeah I was just Crinan say I think the news bulletins that these measures are really needed and it emergency situation to keep our residents safe one thing that's been plan noted in the report is that I'm during the clarification of these temporary traffic orders we will be doing assessment on on what works and listen back to comments from the public acting as almost kind of consultation alive consultation as he's go which is which had positive to hear and if we do want to if the feedback is positive then the experimental traffic orders up in place there is as Luis mentioned another
period of life consultation that statutory and needed so I think there is going to be that consultation and the public will understand that they can be put in rapidly because its emergency measures iteration but I would be grateful if Luis could maybe to elaborate on the requested decision to delegate to herself and Cabinet Member about any additional changes
ward impact over gonna have in this helping speed up the process I think we understand that this is been quickest possible so that if it could just kind of show a bit more light onto that particular decision and how they feel speed up the process meanwhile can roll this out before traffic and congestion gets to an unsustainable level actually or about that cool air Luis Alexander case taking both those points and say immolations the parking bays and the the expected consist suspension of parking bays is is something that we're looking at in particular to provide that additional petitions base where there's an interaction between potential queues and the shops and also pedestrians trying to to get past in all Saracens get from A to B say and stand the concerns that that the impact on on infant and and business at this difficult time for them with the evidence has shown that actually those people who walk and cycle ineligible centres tend to spend more and spend more time in their local centre so and whilst there is a perception that the reduction of parking availability for local businesses is it's kind of has negative impact on business that's not all out by that the evidence of the research and so we are mindful of that and Aussie is part of the economic recovery as well if people perhaps having more fundamental changes to their to the way they will travel in the new normal and more people will be encouraged to shop locally and therefore walk and cycle for their journeys rather than than dry that if it possibly can on just in response to to the delegated powers in and on it what that will enable us to do is is is that responsiveness I think this approach allows us to adapt had where there are unintended consequences that we might not have envisaged and we have to cut or change our approach whether that be a specific location for modal filter or a new location to address cut it and and a new Mac run that has emerged it will allow us to do that quickly and and like a say just without going through and multiple decision making and processes so as not to circumnavigate any consultation is as a say that will be done through the statutory process in in overturn is to provide that direct response to this immediate need and the unique circumstances that were facing in terms of safety and increasing traffic levels Alex is anything on the Dartmouth Road specific proposals that you wanted to say
inside the covered with the general points effects
thanks both
again we have got to do it we call coasters Kripke than Davies but in the meantime discrete through the question directly from Helseth Campbell Louise if we can just make a note and the question is can always come back to business paddle if she intended to make changes or additions to the work streams please for if you just on that one another can call on Councillor Oborski please
good evening everyone affected and it's no surprise to anyone when I'm unusually supportive of this and these measures and the I'm I'm very concerned that they are moved forward as quickly as possible I think that and the public seem to have got into their heads that lockdown has actually now finished and everyone is coming out and I worry that if we don't get this a real move on this that they are going to go will hold on a minute is to its done align and nothing in its happening now why is it happening now I didn't happen before so I think it's really important we get a move on I was I just wanted us so the question is how many officers have we actually got dedicated to actually implement this and do we are we confident that we've got enough resources at our fingertips to be able to get it done and and also I'd like to reassurance that the implementations I was joined up as possible so that if you've got school streets you've got modal filtering you got traffic widening areas you know how much of this stuff is actually going to be really well thought through in terms of and joined up so they get maximum benefit from it and also something that's come up a lot within the sort of cycling community is the junctions and whether there is enough space I'm so that cyclists don't bunch up and actually you know the the social distance it doesn't work so I just wondered if you had any thoughts about that too thank you very much
thanks Louise and could we have Councillor Sean Davis place extra sorry I'm not putting on my videos I'm struggling with my connection so I will we are basically I completely agree with Luis I was gonna make similar points in the I'm I'm also really I I see no very very supportive of these measures and keen that they happen quickly as an officers are working really really hard to do residents in my ward I think have been pushing for things like this across the ward for a Y or and I think we've seen in cities around the world and in other Boro's around the country in that these these measures are happening and in very ambitious way so I think it's great that we're kind of having the same level of ambition and hopefully capitalising on the moment basically two quick points I agree with Lewis point on how are we going to make sure that it's linked in together in the in the kind of healthy neighbourhoods approach basically and my other point which had discussed previously with both Sofiane offices around kind of transparency around the prioritisation point because I think especially with the current consultation being understandably sped up and understand count colleagues' frustration with that that because of the transparency around how the priorities priority areas are identified would be really helpful I understand that can be a little bit complex but the kind of more transparent we could be about it the better I think thank you thanks Yoffie Luis Alexandra please
thank you to note that the desire to meet these measures borders as quickly as possible so that we as route taught before we don't lose the opportunity in terms of the capacity of the team and how many officers we got dedicate to this of see our whole focus has shifted to to this so but the programme that we thought we were going to be delivering in 20 21 is is not being delivered anti afoul have cut have paused all of the previously let funded projects and Alex's team have come been and prioritising the coated transport reports it's inevitable that there is always more work to be done than within getting and and sing with a desire to move these things quickly never to be the more resources be happen the quicker we can do it but we are trying to manage that within the existing capacity and refocus the teams and efforts and where no Syrian and slow things down and bring in additional and roles responsibilities yet make note the point about the the need to join up implementation as much as possible and will take that forward and in terms of junctions of seat there if it's unlikely that any significant changes against be made to traffic signal junctions just because the process that will be involved in working with tier fell to understand the impact of that I'm and then bring those to fruition so I take the point about the bunching and practised law that with tear fell as as and when we have further detailed discussions particularly on the Under 21 corridors well and the transparency around the prioritisation the report does refer to some and high level details about how will these locations of prioritise out and what data has gone into that also will consider whether that needs to be expanded in the in the final decision report and Obsethed commonplace up update will provide website and will provide that information as well so I take the point Batley to be as transparent as possible
calculates and will draw this to a close now coastal dune as indicated he would like to wear popped something fourth I believe John well chat and I was really and wishing to explore the protocol because we've heard that and that this is an urgent matter at is going to Mayor and Cabinet and ordinarily
items which are determined at Mayor and Cabinet and the decisions made under delegation are subject to call-in unless there exempted by the Chair of Council and I wonder Chérif you had thoughts
thank you John before I give you my thoughts are there any other colleagues will want to make any suggestions of pointed the closing of this item
I am just checking
don't believe so OK well
we have to check Councillor here I believe but I don't think it appropriate to when discussed that there in this forum is Kevin Sheehan still here
yes I am here I Kevin can offer you in and just to get a bit of fair clarity is there as the plan or process already agreed that a Cluj at waving scrutiny and with regards to the process has been cut opening by comfortable doon o under normal circumstances after the man meets if it is the tank every contract me face-to
a on June 10th then this decision would come to the business panel and should business Panel but just as far as far as your way clarifies what you know now so so I think first of all I think that the decision is is a delegated decision to me and however as usual any decisions that I make under delegation would normally go through the usual process and be looked at by you good selves that this Committee but I think one of the reasons why we asked to come tonight and to come early with this is because
the process of going through that fairly elongated approach would put us back I think weeks before we were able to act on on on the measures that I think we need to act on quite quickly and I suppose I want to say that the context for that is that I mean the government have announced already that they're going to really relaxed bringing some very relaxed measures very soon and I think that's gonna put
the pressure on the streets very very quickly so I think you know we are you know mindful that we want to bring these majors forward as quickly as possible
reminded that there is a temporary measures and we would have to back at some point in the future for if we're ever going to make any these permanent but you know if we're going to keep people safe bear in mind that there will be more people out the street more people walk in the pavements more retail outlets open and actually the spacing that's available on the footpaths in terms of a you know our citizen be able to get a safely is is going to be very challenged so the idea was to come here tonight to try and give you a chance to have no a chance to shape things and hopefully then to put a request to yourself and maybe the Chair of Council tomorrow depending on what comes out of this evening about whether we can actually waive the that that particular process of me making certainly went back again to his well much later in the day so it's a speedy it's what I'm looking for a speedy decision to try and get these measures in place as quick as possible
thank heaven does them to answer a question before John well up Jack I'll I'll imparted Garces and Executive Directors outlined the concerns NI across charting is you who said to another place so we can convene a meeting business Panel in every like on notice with sufficient numbers
thanks gigantic very true I mean not enough and not just on decision just for for openness all colleagues I have put forth more than once and made a clear air that we don't to Thomas's that if needed the best respond will be flexible and if we need it because it is an emergency then we will convene a to ensure that scrutiny takes place for the desert adversely affected timetable if there is some something these implemented emergency manner
that function thanks Kevin I mean of any of the last minute Comanche opens up will be raised at the last minute from colleagues and despotically firstly on the sanctum I'll win a second that's in one part of the Millbank Headley's only other questionably not Christus department just reflecting back on the discussion I think it's still a lot of good points have come up but I don't think kerb reflecting on the comments that have come up with a Chris's any of us said anything that implies that we don't want this thing to go ahead as close as possible because I think we've actually heard that these are emergency measures to an unusual situation for me the safeguards there in terms of these things to me made permanent they'd have to go proper traffic orders further consultation so I think we need to express that view quite clearly recognised Whiteshill we support what the officers are trying to to for the rest
and we send this report on its way
what does it say this is pre-decision scrutiny saw this as a question as I've said to colleagues about what we call a day and we see what they could we don't like it whatever this is one of those normal came to meetings
my comment will be there's been not a common tonight from colleagues on this 8 him and I would hope that officers have taken account of the common study in May and so on the face the report of the day when the draft report becomes a fanged report I would hope that points issues of showing that been taken on board and I think yet I grey that the onus everybody wants to go forward understudies emergency situation but we also want to make sure everyone is aware of concerns put forward about Oby put across on he go forward on his as it on a more permanent measure and the important thing is as the I feel an emphasis remain is that we take residents was but the key as against the residents armed that firstly as a cyclist
I can't wait for all these different things there then the lane for it's about not what Kirsten of them thought so much it's about Mitchell
come to this and I'm confident if we all work together we will bear but that is equally accepting the role of councillors with me in this I'll I'll leave their if that's OK for me to the formal vote and thing to go forward not appreciate getting history decision scrutiny at this stage and it's very good that witness or comments from councillors
and we look forward to seeing them and taken on board we look forward to serious final report and when it comes through as Councillors do before and the state of business entirely I just wanted to raise this in coming from this on item during this comes in a patent for your together the cause of the spongy Port except for see kids whose face coincidentally serendipitously come upon my camera for this actually for Kevin more often education and we're conscious become memories is the amply heaven the messages punk general policy and may not be able to it now and we can go forward some answers lit around but up in a pro fight
some councillors in the borough
and might for councillors in the area and they've been caught by residents with regards to erecting telecommunications
and there's a number of questions in detail lectures in which will be sent in to be answered them through the Normans but the boys down to this question really if you just stir gently like this hunger possible of not compactors as far as telecommunication but goal what residents in this area looking is that no decision will be
taken to erupt telecommunication mast without
the engagement and consultation
where is it going to be argued that heaven yeah I'm you Bill thanks and can you give an assurance that any sharing a bit of information on the situation for that Arcturus on it
when you're still going to come from the specifically know anything about so do that but I mean I think you know how the Council of Angel and I'm not in favour of beginning the to the community without involving the community so that's the principle I guess but I don't want I don't give you an answer specific because I'm just not aware the specific and I'm very happy to take on if you if you'd be so the detail of local can be questioned in Saturday specific justice I juggle per se in the bother to invest cases as a fierce of registered staff sticking will be taken on with affectation but happy to take on board your comments and your plan
replied to the specific questions which on its specific EU this morning for detailed which is inappropriate for this forum thanks for that heaven
On that basis I would now like to move us on to act on the kingdom action plan
and I know Councillor Sheard has a questionnaire on this Satan please Councillor shape

4 Key Decision Plan

thank you very much Chair and it's a quick question I heard it's just garden and I'm not sure what it's on its point 17 in and officers of outlined the the Learning Disability Services a report regarding that report has come to me cabinet around contract extensions and I was just hoping
rather than kind of doubling the work of singer report and then feed back on that perhaps asking for more work at that point in case there was anything there was panel could feed him to during the formation of the report we could just have a few details of that report will entail either in this meeting now or indeed who EMA to one thank you get the shareholder the Council wished his allocation should on this item
councillor that is then carried pops
come on so I am not on the details on the concept which is due to be published in June we moved on since the publication of the business panelling gender and haute has been transferred from their covenant to get because direct of services so the man come to no longer be involved but the time look the same so the report will go directly the business Panel for post decision scrutiny and there can then going their form and depth and make any recommendations or conceivably referred to the Executive Director for Community Services for we consideration your gender is due to be published on June 15th make possible the sector while the report before them but should the ample time for the business Annual who consider the applications and raise constantly from summit
scattered
that's a bit of space
he just over history under this goes back
the Mayor and Cabinet in March about the sled with a thing
initially I thought that was on the market position under was published or such
but there was some swing
not address I like the place where until May 2 was moving but in no way it could be moved to and that was a further issue which was being addressed with the office but Israel has not we have not I've conclusion of that what could do just from that progress
could I am at him
Kevin Sheehan Yerevan it on and that basically
Young that we haven't we haven't we haven't final live we and finalise was going to go yet so still still something that we have to learn from Alliss so we up to that point yet and any touched most of the time those referred to include publication representations except out the first year will thank you
as Peter
the education about my come everything was yes' to be very very welcome to first to have some input on the on when the time Commons
elsewhere we had some concern and obviously we are all in the housing making sure we have been replaced
absolutely
thank you well if there's no that quite I can the Allo comes to love Toba at each of the forward plan but first to report on them help review you don't Murray cabinet July 2 suite to say but
too much like a copy of that report to go to the children and Young people Select Committee Council Members
sometimes it goes to Mayor and Cabinet so that we can look at it warmly save a lot of time at this panel if if we do that banks looked our captain Act and with a little
committed
I'm sure to be renewed share yes thanks Kevin
all care and we got the question of councillor for them it's all OK without level were largely to the Norfolk council about honour
we now move on to thank you again
10
but the other six were open nothing unfolding now as requested to look at
6

6 Decision by the Executive Director of Housing, Regeneration and Environment on 15 May 2020

executive director again no one's commented to any questions on this gym so now we go to Item 7 exclusion present book which me is that because we're looking at confidential care as Members of the principal Blick who are working on web cast where land is because the closed session saw the past and is close soaking or thank before technician to do that thank the members of the public own of taking part and Councillor with confirmed so the web-based members of the press and us and I hope his come back again next me think