Licensing Committee - Wednesday, 3rd June 2020 at 7:15pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Licensing Committee
Wednesday, 3rd June 2020 at 7:15pm 









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4 Silks 177 - 181 Rushey Green Catford London SE6 4BD.
1 Minutes
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4 Silks 177 - 181 Rushey Green Catford London SE6 4BD.

Claire yes that's fine
Good evening everybody and welcome to the first remote Licensing meeting first thing the ordered non-participant non councillors at the meeting could you switch off your microphones to mute
and please don't do not open your microphone unless your I called you to speak open microphones they cause feedback so before sorry Jodie audit the applicant is that right
before I don't know but I just want to actually if we're about I should actually introduced everybody right before I did this so
I'm I'm not going to go through a preamble first and then I'll can I had sorry Clegg night Oby
you should carry with them yes he she can I cope but there are three applicants a case I've got Joti Mears and and Oby yet guys colours as well
I have not had that waiting in the lobby in the room at the moment OK alright then
OK so
people should be on the screen go so Joji could you switch your video off Oby could you switch your video of please the only people that can remain on the screen for now going to be the Councillors so you can see them so we could you switch over the off is is my not now I'll get there it's often and now I can see you I'll Zoff yes off now awkward now you back home you back on now open or McCaughan yet something's happened yet
I think I'm on the you're asked I'm calling you need Colfer scream
I'm after scenario you're off now OK so for your information Joji Oby the Danny people that you can be on screen will be the Councillors you guys are there you're mikes are off but you could hear everything that's going on right and I just got to introduce myself my name Councillor either summer off again and the Chair of the Licensing Committee the people in the boxes are if you can attack a thing of the nasal come up that is what we need to met names come up
you've got Colin earlier
put your hands up Colin
Colin Elliot Carol Howard kin Poul Juliet Campbell
Susan wise
and so haughty enko enko so were the seven Councillors who gonna be making a decision and shared determination were and what we hear tonight so I'm just gonna go through now preamble of how this meeting is going to take place it's the first time an I've done this so unskilled read from a script exactly what we need to do so please could you switch or switch Mike please could you all switch our microphones to mute to ensure that we are not disturbed by background noise and her mobile phones to silent please do not open your microphone unless I called you to speak open microphones may cause feedback cleanses as accounts as well
yes please yes OK so casually say Mike's off as well yes before the business starts I would like to make clear that procedure for this evening
this is a formal virtual public meeting the purpose of which is to make a decision on the application having considered all the evidence presented before us including written reports verbal representations and questions asked please could I ask people not to talk over one another and treat each other with courtesy and respect at all times
as Chair I would invite you to speak any person speaking must be permitted to finish what they are saying without interruption if our request that an individual stopped speaking they should do so immediately interruptions may result in you being disconnected from this meeting
at Licensing Committee members of the public have been known to speak with candour and passion but please remember that this is a public meeting it is being screened live via the Council's website and recorded for future reference please not please do not disclose publicly something that something that should not be said or could be regretted later
the applicant will be invited to speak and members will then be invited to ask them questions any objectors may then speak and allow members are thrown again members will be able to ask questions I will allow five for every speech but please ensure that there is no repetition if a member of the Committee wishes to ask a question could ask them to indicate this on the chat panel
members of the public sorry members of the public are reminded that that the chap panel is not the public use any messages left on the chap by members of the public will be disregarded by Committee members members of the public who are disconnected from the meeting due to technical difficulties should use the link or dialling instructions they were sent initially to return to the meeting
if a member of the Committee loses internet connection or power can they please inform the Clerk
of this via the WhatsApp group immediately so that we can adjourn the meeting until the connection has been restored
when the when Members have heard all the evidence the meeting will close and deliberation will be made elsewhere the decision will be sent to all parties via e-mail within five working days of this meeting
that clear to everybody yeah right care can you me
what's yes can play like I have got Chapman on my screen has wide get that fell it's the second one from and federal for the right
as I second second I've got it now I've got it now equipping right sorry sorry guys thank you very much we've got to behave very
sorry you've got your hand up 0 God thank you thank you Juliet K I've received apologies from absence from Councillor Annual and are now read out the members of the Licensing Committee please could you confirm that you are present at this meeting I've done that already actually sorry clear and can't got off script now but I just got go through it again so run over or that I'm not going to go through that so we know that Councillor Elliott there Councillors Campbell are there Councillor called Yankos there Councillor Howard with is there Councillor Powell and Councillor wise is the wrong people
so Councillor Hanley did say he was coming but he isn't here as yet who K I will now read out the names of the officers present anything yet
only it now read out the names of the officers present at this meeting again could you confirm that you are present pictured a man
as a lawyer
yes 1 year Lisa Hooper crime and enforcement and regulation Yemen now and we should look at
cramming enforcement regulation officer
Richard doesn't need to be here I can cover for which no
OK so I'm is caught Khan handed to send a message into the Chair
declared he got that from coal yes I'd hand I shall I send to man an invitation yet let him join yet can
OK so the only item up for district percussion tonight is I'm silks on
On Rushey Green subject to look at as any member have any interest in that item

4 Silks 177 - 181 Rushey Green Catford London SE6 4BD.

no no no said all councillors are indicating that the they don't have an interest in that meeting so I'm now going to hand over to Lisa Hooper who's going to introduce this item for us
so Lisa over to you
thank you Chair
answer tonight hearing is in relation to an application for a new premises licence silks at hundred 77 281 Rushey Green SE 6 4 BED 3 I just into the interrupt their because and weight of the Councillor Hanley it starts without him or ago can't be included on an all seeming to do the minutes in the declarations please
OK sorry thank you just I've just sent him in the Erne a link so hopefully he should get here and straightaway I'm after have done the declarations I have
I haven't done the minutes here because you don't really use as at the end that's fine and but if you want to wait for Council handy otherwise he can't take part OK so which I haven't got an which minutes are we looking at her
the 10th of December it yesterday there's two of them but we can do it at the end that's fine
OK get to happen I've got Claire through I'm sorry okay so we got minutes from the 10th December

1 Minutes

so they came in your pack can we agree those minutes
agreed or strongly agreed thank you very much so there's Minister agreed everyone's to Cook declared no interest so I'm just going to hang on a minute for Councillor C Hadley to get into this meeting because if he doesn't get in when the meeting started can't participate as you know the rules of licensing
carry on the phone with him as well or is he just doing that nourished sent him a link so it should you literally seconds

1 Minutes

OK so I'm reopening the meeting call-handling isn't going to be joining us so I'm going to hand over now to Lisa Hooper who's going to outline the case for silks that Rushey Green O2 Lisa

4 Silks 177 - 181 Rushey Green Catford London SE6 4BD.

thank you Chair I am good evening councillors and this is an application for a new premises licence in relation to silks at 177 200 81 Rushey Green St 6 4 B D the application is for the following licensable activities plays between the hours of 9 am and 1 am Monday to Wednesday 9 am to 2 m St and Sunday 9 am to 4 am Friday and Saturday Live music between 9 am and 4 am Friday and Saturday 9 am and midnight are Sunday recorded music 9 am in 2 thousand 30 and Sunday and 9 am and 4 am between a on Friday and Saturday late night refreshment between 9 am and 2 m stay to Sunday alcohol for consumption on the premises between 9 am and 4 am Thursday to Sunday and 9 am to 2 am on Sunday sorry that was 9 am to 4 am Thursday to Saturday and 9 am to 2 am on a Sunday I also applies applied for seasonal variations including New Year's Eve and New Year's Day to be open until 5 pm Easter Sunday working till 3 am Easter Monday to be open to 4 am and all other bank holidays across the year to be open until 5 am the application was advertised in required format as stated regulation 25 and the last date for receiving representations was the 10th of April 2 thousand and 20 representations were received FUL to interested persons on the grounds of public nuisance
representations received from from interested parties have been examined by officers and were considered not to be vexatious or frivolous these representations were all received within the specified time conditions for the licence were agreed between the applicant the police and Crime Enforcement Regulation service to promote lasting objectors in line with the Council's Licensing Policy and as a result no objections were received from responsible authorities
after having regard to all representations this evening members must take such steps as they consider necessary for the promotion of licensing objectives the Licensing Committee may one Grant the new licence as applied for subject to mandatory conditions to grant the licence subject to conditions modifies to such an extent as the authority considers appropriate for the promotion of licensing objectives 3 exclude from the scope of the licence any of the licensable activities to which the application relates for refuse to specify a person in the licence as the designated premises supervisor or 5 refused the application back over to you are Chair thank you very much for that Lisa and before we go on we seem to have lost a Juliette Councillor Campbell although she is she's coming back
do you can split the Michael and talk to me moment please
you back now sorry yeah I was just moving around do my papers I didn't want everyone see me just going back as about bomb here I've been here what on OK right thank you to my Mike Ofner so thank you very much for that Lisa so to current daiquiris kept at Council of any questions of Lisa before I move over to the applicant
OK so if you do have a question any time a Member in the chat screen you just need to type a question mark so soon you may not known this if you want to ask a question in the chat screen just put a question mark in your come up against your name and I'll Collie to ask a question at the appropriate time OK that's very kind of you chaired by and I do know I've done these I do know that I didn't come to the practice farmed because I've done a customised That's OK that's fine so so miss Mears are you presenting for SILCs tonight now that will be Carloss who would be speaking OK then saw going to hand over to Carlos now term outline his case your case rather
good evening everyone the keep for the time and so yet we've read over the objections and I just want to kind of highlight the concerned that these applicants have just to give you an overview on how we are going to run the business and especially as opposed to the prior business that was there which I think most affair concerns come from some again I'm very aware of the previous history of the business and that was there the various owners that run that business and most importantly the promoters are called them for now just because they are primarily the people that brought in the audience that did going to the last venue that was their named nouveau lounge and I know quite well about the business and up until probably 2 thousand 14 to win their closure date was I'm aware that the business ran quite badly early security wasn't a priority so I'm not surprised at all that these concerns have come but just a kind of highlight to you guys that how we are going to be running a business is going to be a lot more beneficial and one for the area security's gonna be are utmost paramount to our neighbouring to neighbours I should say to businesses in the neighbouring areas as well I mean the violent crimes won't be happening in the venue to prevent that what we are going to do and we are working directly in partnership with the security firm which I don't think many venues do to be honest I kind of higher one to be third party so that'll be one if I think that we'll be doing working directly with them down to having CCTV inside and outside the venue to work as a deterrent for crimes of any kind of nature in and around the area outside the venue and security will always be present and thus just a number one rule whether it be outside and inside the venue and again to the tear any type of crime happening instead of combating the crime when it already has happened we'll be having things like ID scanners as part of a licence includes Auster have and which will again work as a deterrent to have certain types of individuals outside of the venue staying away from the venue as there will be obviously known to their local authorities police and most importantly us as well and one thing that I think is a hundred percent key is having the two way communication with the local authorities as well as our neighbours we have processes in place one of them which McCulley was kind of go into more detail which is called no neighbour which is us having part for communication with our neighbours where they be upstairs whether they be two minutes down the road or 10 minutes down the road down to the noise relation understandable again from some of that may live in their the surrounding areas we plan to have very very minimal queues outside the venue unless about making sure that people have inside the venue as fast as possible
we will adhere to the actual licence requirements for the South that we can play having a sound limiter inside the venues well and which will stay to that and then I think the most important thing is that dispersal of the patrols so make sure that we have steered us and security outside will be forming a process which will have a staggered disposal so unlike most LAC clubs and they tried to get everybody out as soon as possible will be doing it in a staggered fashion so you don't have your hundred or 200 people outside the venue all of dance will be staggering it so people kind of leave the venue in a more quiet fashion without any distractions to stay around the venue which then causes and quite a lot of nuisance in lies after the venues closed and I think on a on a on a more positive notes is the way that we will be managing the venue in Moss purposes ways and most people will be seen as an that club it won't just be a nightclub we have plans to expand the business further beyond that having a bar restaurant and at the front of it which will run not just on your first Friday Saturday night and having something that will benefit I think the surrounding area and the borough itself when which can be used as a social house for people to come to work in the daytime grab a bite to eat as well as it being a venue that will be used for multiple reasons photo shoots even down to film production and recording and just due to the way that we're gonna kind of design the venue as well as well as it being a pilot club as well and I think things like the processes AQA said which might clearly Jodie would explain them the works a process that we have the Know Your neighbour process that we have as well and what will be things that we will put in place just to make sure that there won't be any kind of concerns and especially for their safety and there won't be any consent of having noise nuisance around the area and other be opening hours from Lannion down to and Fourier granted the licence
if the economists have you finished yes trying to keep it within the five minutes OK thank you very much that's pretty comprehensive so two Councillors have any questions for Carloss though Colangelo question NAMA's got any questions yeah colony got questions put your my corner put your my concourse
I've just got it out no sorry I can't go I have a question for call us regarding the noise nuisance because that's come up in the the objections that we've had a can I ask about your re-entry policy and is there any buffer and between those going out for smoking for example and coming back kin will that
he frozen calling a block the noise go out into the public area how are you going to have some are anything any yes yes yes yes I heard I think I had been well should
yes so in regards to re-entry where we are going to have a very late re-entry and I believe at the time don't quote me for this but we will be looking at the towns of Nabi 12 to Welham no re-entry after that time just because we are aware and people liked her head of stand upside for reason or try to stand outside to gain entry for friends at me becoming a earlier time as a business we wanna get everybody inside because that's where we make money and he was standing outside isn't going to be beneficial for us at all in regards to smoking and plans at the moment isn't to have a smoking area at the front of the venue we are looking to actually build on the progress the land of you have an outside
luckily again we do have and we will be working directly with a security firm so how I had done with my past experience before it had someone man the smoking area and all times and it's their job to actually make sure that no-one is actually spending outside in the smoking area just for social reasons it is just to have their cigarette-smoking brick and re-entry into the venue
that's why the 30 miles to follow to get you can or cannot of just regarding the smoking area is that near any residents bedrooms or anything like that where is it going to be like going to in terms of the residential properties and so fond the view of where we had been at the venue at the moment and obviously did covert I can't remember that much of it and it has been a was it's a blast in in there and but the only residential area I can see it's post maybe through hundred yards away if you take account if you don't take into account the visitors that are directly above us so well that smoking area is actually within the car park is on the Atlas side of where the car park is I'm not sure if you are familiar with the the venue itself there's a carpet just behind it whether McDonald's and I'm guys it's the and it's that this the little carpark so nouveau lounge is caught directly or perpendicular to Laurence House and the Town Hall which is the old venue is that that but that is the premises and I'm correcting that Carlos is that right yet correct yet so says neck 30 next to the Post Office in Catford
yet Parfitt's yeah so smoking area will be on the back side of the venue where the open area will be the Littles carparks out directly where we are from from memory and I believe were enclosure I think I maybe even saying shorthand to and yards and it may be even further if you don't take into account the the neighbours are immediately abuts
I tracked him just make a few think they will be impacted are told by any residual smoking area of it than angers about how far above other
I don't know a measurement but the venue is extremely tool and into say on top of that there is space in between there so going upwards I would probably say maybe at I think that would be directly affected are taught I mean in regards to distance you may be able to smell smoke if you're windows open at that time of the night and but would it be directly I don't think anyone would be directly affected by that we may be talking about their be 70 yards upwards again and I don't know measurements that Welsh but I know that the height of the venues extremely tool and to even saying that I don't think even if you were directly on the review of an have most directly affected by that smokes were
thank you very much thank you thank you very much and I'm so complicit before I take other Members' questions and Susan you've reached your hand but you need to send a message in the chap thing with a question mark easily support centre question mark to the chatter that chap yet it back down again all right so I'm get unkempt Councillor came Powell had a question
high I'm Conaty questions here and what shall capacity for this venue
and the area at the back that you took an about what she's gonna be the smoking area I know this area behind on this building and it is a quite a lot of fat fly tipping there at the moment and it's not as the best kit area so
My thing is how are you going to stop this ill from getting worse than is at the moment
I'm so the area I start with the adequacy at the moment have been confirmed by the fire brigade I think five the last venue although we have it laid any and constructive changes to the venue and I believe for to 500 to 700 other have the people directly in front of me and I believe it was a first numbers I'm in regards to the back area and that area what you've got where where sorry the area that will be used as a smoking area and will actually be bothered off so they won't be open into that car park area it'll be completely fenced up as high as I physically comic I'm just because obviously we again we don't want people coming over effect that that's of Albie security is most paramount thought but yet any of the rubbish that will be in the area would actually be part of our own Pablo and I are keen as war will have that clean up on a on a daily basis
I had the answers that question OK thank you OK that and Kim yep I'm before we and up to hack US Coral and lethal you wanted to say something they for Hooper
yes please Chair thank you and I just wanted to make a point on the previous and discussion around the noise nuisance and the remittance after certain time there it that the condition that we agreed with the applicant is that there should be no admittance or re-admittance to the premises after 2 am unless there are booked promoters and DJs and cornices just this informed you that then looking at working to and midnight one I am be admittance and so I just wanted to flag this if you are reassured by that and that's something that you would viewing them as operating to you may want to adjust the condition they've actually agreed because they have agreed a later time so I just wait to inform you of that
thank you Lisa thanks very much for that so I'm council houses you had a question
Tony Michael Cole
we can't hear you yes sorry very sorry yes I'm I don't know that area terribly well but it seems as though the residential is it Khatallah block it is very very close has it's not tower-block it's a block of it's just flats is not a tower block you Rodhouse the tablet as Eros house it's further what much further away from Iraq House OK and under were quite a lot of complaints about problems previously I mean I know this is is this a new completely new company taking over here and
On the other what was the other point sorry our our firm it's gone out of my mind and if it could just say you know is are these new completely new operators because the seem to be a lot of complaints previously and people saying that a children didn't feel safe
and composting is a completely new operator this is what what cause what call seven-year when he presented his case would you just like to confirm that Carloss please of course yet so were completely separate company separate entity I think I have a benefit of happen to his own food the previous owners were I consider my friends I just obscene another third party entity so I know how they run the business having spirits running Mac clubs myself and you kind of compared when you see someone running something whether it's betel for worse so yet I am aware of the problems that they did facing their previous run over the club and I am aware of some of the issues that they did face as well so again I'm not surprise on some of the complaints that they did get I think where I've definitely tried to say this is where we're going to change in this way we've and trying to benefit and from this situation is one have in the in-house security firm in place I think most clubs have a problem with security because they don't have a two way communication part of their security fence and they are technically just and strange as that appear every single week normally various strangers as part for security firm and they don't know the area they don't know the local community and especially they don't know how the club works and so having an in-house security firm means that one don't know how we run our business and it would be beneficial that they also lend their help and handing Augusta risk assessment and things like that I'm an also we do poor in places that the security firm also sending people people from the local area because again they work as vigilance they know people in the area who are the best people to kind of flame people that they may have seen trouble before caused issues and other different commercial years as well and yet again we just trying to put in as many security processes in place and to make sure that one are staff are safe and feel safe work and the neighbours whether they're upstairs 5 minutes or 10 minutes down the road feel safe as well and that we do have processes where I may as do know us by name there is a two way communication that if they ever do have any concerns they can directly come to us with sometimes can become a bit more comforting for them
OK thank you very much for us thank you thank you I'd though with one other thing sorry I forgot you it fares on the application that you are going to be putting on plays if there's some kind of theatre intention around the provision of entertainment
I am I think to maybe answer that two different ways I think in regards to terminology plays in regards to the application that's the pay of music but on today but not to say that as well ovine you won't just be a nightclub so I don't want the the of the ideology of silt being just a nightclub I come from a multi purpose of and background so having ever just worked in the nightclub industry I've done corporate events as well of social events so I am there trying to design of any that can be used for anything such as production for a short film or a feature film and down to production plays down to yoga classes Kazuma classes as well as it being a venue where it can be opened as a night club or bar and restaurant as well
I haven't got enough thank you thank you card us for them so the last question I have is from Councillor wise
Councillor was microphone on it is thank you to my question is about some the leaving of patrons and their dispersal we have a venue in my ward where that is the biggest problem late at night and early in the morning when patients leave get into their cars or their cabs and is banging of doors and lots of noise I appreciate that
the location of this venue is the shouldn't be caps and calls pulling up but can you tell me what policy you've got to allow that to happen smoothly and without any noise to neighbours of course I'm so one of the process that we have is which I mentioned to slightly before a staggered
dispersal so what I've seen in several different events not a snack clubs and seductive thing it's what they do to try to get everyone out of the venue as soon as possible because everyone wants to go home early which is understandable but that then creates a problem outside and especially for security when you have a staggered dispersal less to say we have a hundred people allowing a hundred people to leave 25 to time over the space of potentially half an hour then means that you have 25 people outside who have less distractions if I'm just going to say in layman's terms boys looking for girls and young working to other girls about doing things that might happen that night I'm a guy's just me and with their friends when you have less of that happening people tend to get bored they realise it's 2 and 3 and 4 am in the morning ton for me to go home so that's what they end up doing so that's one of the things that we intend to do have staggered dispersal which allows people to 1 leave finding a cabinet is a mere down the road or it's in the car park behind us behind with the venue situated and they leave a lot quicker and another thing is which is something I'm looking into at the moment I don't know how well it's going to work is a staggered queuing system so it basically means that when people are leaving the venue it's not like sheikhs trying to get through a gate there is a natural queuing system that happens which means people live in a quick up a smoother operation and again that then allows people to leave the venue with a quicker and type with a more time on their hands and it means that hang around outside because by the time you get into the Cuban you actually leave the venue you're pretty much ready to go home because you haven't you've had the time inside the venue and to actually talk all get your coat or wherever it may be well I think the last part is is immigrants tonight and this we will be much into promoters whatever R M time is without turn the lights 1 1 minute before the event finishes due to are I limit on our licence we do that potentially half an hour 25 minutes or maybe even 40 minutes depending on what the capacity is inside the vacant and this then allows the early people that want to go home they can then start leaving and it does it mean that when the lights turn on liberty leaves it just means that we then get people signals to let them let them lower make sure that they're aware the night's ending soon so if you want to start calling a counter to do it now while she still got 40 minutes to actually have to leave the venue so these are certain things that we are trying to put in place amongst the stewardess that we want to have outside the venue as well to continue to the kind of politely shove the patrols in the directions that any to be going in with us to their Kocab or public transport thank you kind Emma
can I ask not come back on that place journey thank getting Carol or set son quite reassuring it sounds as if I understood the staggered dispersal so it doesn't sound as if that is going to be an extended time of noise when people out there doing this dispersal and I'm very glad to mention the stewardship outside because I was going to raise that with you because that is something that has caused a lot of issues where we are because no one was around monitoring people moving off smoothly and quietly so thank you
what could we I think I understand the noise issue at her to get it and I know that it is difficult to tell someone who is slightly intoxicated to go home when you going to tell them once and stewardesses are one of the things that we're 100 percent gonna have I'm at the front of the venue make sure that people are going in the direction that they need to and the most important going home in a quiet fashion because I know that sometimes of security it's their tired they just wanna go home they've been standing in the same place for maybe for four five six hours and when you have stood us is that come in a lot later on the shift there a bit more concerning their bit more waking am aware of the situation and they'll be doing their job in a Bill a bit of a different way that the security who's been standing there for six hours would be doing
OK well thank you thank you very much for that Carloss and close ask you a question as well what what what Conor them promises or sensible thing that you have you been involved in before so I've been events industry for 14 years now I started social about so was actually thrown parties Tenderer age or found 16 home from parties in nightclubs and that's where I started and I then went straight into the corporate industry doing a corporate events such as a corporate meetings award shows I then went into weddings for about two to three years and then I went into corporate social events so things along the lines of and weddings for what you were Castafiore as royalty rich also other types of events like and sells meetings and expeditions and other things along those lines and in a social corporate managed or companies such as lack Ikea Coca-Cola Highlands which everyone thought and then I then went in to Welling now lack club for all four years and three to four years and while still doing ad hoc social and corporate events as well so I've kind of been everywhere I think the only to the found is a funeral and upon its for at the very interesting this is totally not within anything to do with my my question wasn't Emily it is not a licensable activity I'm just curious in my own mind sake those everybody else enough questions and they feel they look like they've got enough information on the application so thank you very much Oby Carloss and Jody
we can end this meeting that Radcliffe and is going to say that right we're going to end this meeting now Claire that correct then nymphet ahead of information they require and there's nothing else needed to be said yes it's fine so I'm conscious he would have heard that we gotta make we gonna deliberate in a separate meeting and you'll get the ar ôl decision via e-mail yet effort thank you OK so that ends this meeting this this particular Licensing meeting so just get you phones up with a red phone and and click off the phone and then I'm sorry judge a hand up to ask a question yes sorry I was trying know where to find a suitable sector to ask one not TAs a question but to address something that call said
and we did actually I agree in the conditions that Lisa mentioned a who I am re-admittance and call off its say don't quote me he wasn't a high draw with the 12 am due to security reasons we did all we would prefer a 2 m admittance and time that's possible not to have that rejected OK OK then Joti thank you for that so that's it now then Wiganer I'm going to end this meeting and we're gonna go into the next meeting up I believe Kerrison everyone