Strategic Planning Committee - Monday, 22nd June 2020 at 8:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Strategic Planning Committee
Monday, 22nd June 2020 at 8:00pm 

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I could see another person waiting in the lobby how you he you let him in
and James can you confirm that the webcast is on please
thank you very much good evening everybody welcome so this resumed meeting of Lewisham council's Strategic Planning Committee which we need to adjourn on the night of June are with our taking the remainder of the business that should have been her on that night I'm Councillor John hash you I am Chair of the and many are the other people that I think you can see most of on your screen now are the other councillors on the Committee and I will go through the mist and ask them to introduce themselves in just a moment
no fact I'll go through and ask them to introduce themselves now so could I ask you briefly councillors to switch on your Mike's your video on are during the meeting if possible but switch on your Mike's and introduce yourself when I called your name so Councillor Bell
while on Council about how that will play committee are Councillor Councillor Bana via and I'm Councillor Barnard here
Carey Councillor Clarke
hello Councillor Clarke here
Councillor Cameron Councillor Karon present grieving thank you Councillor Gallagher
I am here evening session
Councillor Gibbons I for one Councillor Evans here good evening I a council somebody were good Irving consultant by they were here aiming to me and finally Councillor Castle Walsh even Chair Councillor Walshaw OK thank you very much James right and in addition to them and appearing when they need to around the table we've got various officers who'll be a supporting the process advising us in reaching a decision on the application and we got tonight so we have I I won't ask them to introduce themselves but I will just read out who his present and one over there we've got him at all but who is lotion Council's director of planning Michael Forrester Hoe his our manager for major projects and David Robinson who is the case officer
who is presenting who will be presenting the case we got in front of us tonight
Viv Evans who is Head of amongst amongst many job titles Head of complex projects are our Joanna reQall Stone who is a senior Conservation Officer in the Planning Department and Charles Merritt who is our legal adviser tonight and a Claudette who will be are taking the minutes and otherwise supporting the Committee process and Claudette as I've said before if you need to interrupt me because you think I'm doing something wrong in the process of the meeting then you have my permission to do so without Hoskin forward the any further during the meeting
0and that we will have her Dean who is our IT support officer and James so is another IT support Officer managing the webcast and I hope that coming over loud and clear to people her observing our meeting that way and calving who is also the seeing the
her process of the meeting right
excuse me while I switched between several different documents on other screens
we've had no apologies we have full turn out of members of the Committee

1 Declarations of Interests

so before we start the main business of this meeting I will ask all of the members if they have any declarations of interest in the item that were about to make a decision on and do feel free to unusual Mike and speak up now if you do are silence will be taken and as a decoration he don't well
a lack of such a declaration as usual if any interest occurs to you in the course of our discussions and I am pleased to indicate in the usual way that you wish to speak and then you can you can declare it at the time so it's minuted and clear to everybody the way will be conducting the meeting to allow for the online platform is the I'll ask people who are actively participating in discussion at any time to leave their cameras on particularly members and any officers who are speaking to us if possible everybody be to leave their microphones muted unless you are actually invited speak normally by me as I'm chairing the meeting

2 PLOT 15 CONVOYS WHARF, LONDON, SE8 3JH

and Members if you wish to raise a hand I know there are alternative facilities for doing this available in the platform were using but please indicate with a single character in the chat window will do such secure if you want to rate may raise a question that we can use the same process if you want so make any any sort of point or mover of the motion or anything else right so without further ado I think we can start or the hearing of this application that was left over from the adjourned meeting and that his plot 15 of convoys Wharf site so David Robinson if you can share your screen and make your presentation
then will proceed from there thank you
high-finance Michael I'd like to do a very quick on right before we get into the paper thin Haddon Tower OK so in papers will be the same as on the night of impugn bar the date they were have those and thus took a firm that we've had some leg represent hoping the third and fourth for for funding had the luck of Chalford
nothing is related objections with regards to play space and the Lead timing out of a permission now we have reviewed both and taken legal advice they in officers opinion raise no new issues not covered already within the main report or the Executive Summary has already been to committee so the position of our officers are main fund change in that respect
thank you
OK thank you set clear to Members
David
yes thank you Chair
do you need to share your screens was first Tingley yeah just on the process OK
can I just confirm them we can hear me and see my screen shared
thank you and thank you Chair and get even members and David Robinson Planning Case Officer and for Plot 15 convoys Wharf and the current application and percent for determination is the reserved matters application in relation to Plot 15 of the convoys Wharf development said
the reserved matters application relates to the construction of a boarding ranging from four to nine storeys in height to blade on 24 residential units including 65 at London affordable rent and 59 as shared ownership
at ground floor level yes 100 square metres of B1 offices including affordable and workspace and 300 square metres of retail uses of proposed development also proposes and space for 12 which are accessible parking spaces and one standard residence of parking space
your gender sets out to find an assessment an officer recommendation to approve the reserved matters in relation to dot 15 as well as the discharge of several outline planning permission conditions as outlined within the recommendation of sex herself support Sassard consultation for the application
return to the overview of the scheme
the slide shows the location of Fifa's team of and the existence site and searched SORP size of the development site and just north of Dhaka strays
and the slight on the next slide and the kid he 15 and Masterplan concert context alongside P 22 unpeel width and the block of things to get it to the size of the site and as previously mentioned
and again here
the slide shows the one-stop a context of he sustained Ostler's with them the royal dockyard and Farsley with an even gardens
led to this outline planning permission outlined a series of character areas as depicted in the cemach
PE 15 Astra Atlantic Gateway and calculate and blue label number 1 and the oven quartered and ever 7
the answer to proposals the slate and the kids home the architects of salt to breakdown the massing and the length and machine massing he 15 m an hourglass Socha template the over a boarding form of a strong vertical emphasis creation of a commercial basis and subtly attempt distinguished top
the applicant themes undertaken extensive contextual analysis in the development of this building and the slate or slate display some of this has been translated into the façade composition the proposed building is to the right of the screen and will for examples of the base middle top strategy shown from Deptford High Street and proportional study as well of the nearby LC see a staple
the Slade and gets the final proposals for prefer thin and an overview of the masking and the bowling proposed am of damage looking towards says Court stairs
NCDA image of the price of the building a few thing and are taught taken from the north east and from River traction
it's worth noting here that the proposed units and particularly an upper floors would have on inhabited views towards the river
the slide shows are based on this proposed building falling deterring and holding detail and showing how these sun-filled material palette and detailing offender Brock fretwork has been used to retaliate the boarding and add richness and doubts till facade
forgotten materiality a sample pots of to get tastes and has been proposed and worth noting here that the red brick proposed as them the same back and as proposed on periods and on the opposite side of the spangled and previously and heard that this planet very
the slightest indicates the material Board that was submitted to and the planned service and support of the application
referring to the proposed floor plans the Slade and the case of a post clone Ground floor Plan
indicating 2 4 bedroom family units 1 A1 units and 3 they wanted split in one to be provided as affordable business space that is the actual access to began from two residential Anshan says clearly look at allowance get the spine road and access to the present and only space would be available from for all occupants from the Internal residential course
12 winter chair accessible parking spaces are proposed to bear and want to 1 ratio and what the units proposed
the slide shows a typical residential and floor Plan layout
and in the slide shows the typical upper upper floor residential
there's an onto the proposed elevations
the proposed Section through the building
the strategy towards access and landscaping as indicated on this Slade as mentioned before prey or access to the private communal amenity space would be available for all residents internally as well as from the car park and an additional access to the west of the site to the west of the plot and near place called gardens it's worth noting at this stage that the reserved matters for landscape and does not form part of this recommendation for approval and the exact detail of the communal garden would the forthcoming of a future reserved matters application
this is a parameter plans Slade from the lane and planning permission and the centre getting that the amenity space to the rear of piece of thin and has been approved this private open space at ground floor level
and accountability strangest
learners not to summon decorative Energis of proposed landscaping please note again that these are only indicative and landscaping reserved matter has not been rep not yet been recommended for approval and will form part of a separate application once the designs have been fully developed
Matthew slates and showing a decorative images of communal amenity area
the survey shows an average of PE 15 from the south-west of the site and so near what the future connection of says Court Gardens would exist
forgotten reflection of heritage through design through a series of meetings with historic England and the funding service thought the current was requested to prepare a Site way hurt Strategy to monitor the approach to the reflection of heritage and design and to it design teams of the Splott and future forthcoming plots and as mentioned are touched upon earlier plot 15 straddles the John Evelyn says court and Road at prayers and as such and this has been the inspiration for the reflection of heritage through design
and in response to this then the applicant has amended the wall of the garden to reflect that of the expressed says court monitoring and the kid here and read and dashed red line on the screen and this would be expressed and
through the location of the wall and for details of its design not your worked up and it's recommended that these details are covered by condition
dash night African the sought to reflect this documentation of the dock yard wall and through the proposed design this would be expressed through landscaping and found the blue lane and on your screens
and another far above the façade of the actual building itself again full details of this would be secured by condition and subjected a future application
and finally and again effectively the applicants propose to and tree planting plan with that Spacey selection intended to reflect the work of John even
I am not brings us to the end of the site show and that overview of the proposals
in terms of planning considerations
the application proposes the autumn 24 residential units retail uses of 300 square metres and the one off a space of 100 square metres in accordance of outline Planning permission parameters
the proposed residential element would be 100 percent affordable of 59 and shared ownership and 64 long affordable rent units and spitting yet teen three-bed dwellings and 2 four bed dwellings within the London affordable rent tenure the plan service negotiated and improvement over the affordable rent definition secured in the section 1 Essex which is defined as 60 percent of market rents but an affordable Rance considered genuinely affordable violation and his proximately 9 percent more affordable for 1 bed units 25 percent for 2 bed and 40 to 45 percent more affordable for larger streamed 4 bed units when compared against the at the right level secured by the Section 1 with sex
it is recommended that this is a secure bet deed of variation to the Section 6 Agreement
the proposed land is considered optimal and the land found machine Frommer's maximising active street frontages good natural surveillance of public spaces and providing a good quality of couple of road on the Dacian and with menace units receiving views Upnor towards the river
the proposed access arrangements are safe in accordance of guilty prommers
the proposed design is of a high quality and elevational strategies and materiality successful Brighstone the massing of the building and the proposed design of the charities consider appropriate and reflective or fill material in and Madeira
for God's reflection of design for heritage through design over all this is considered to be acceptable figure
the the materials as well as the design of the skills of the reflection of heritage through designer recommended to be secured by condition
the proposed provision of vehicular parking as a course in accordance with opaque and considered acceptable by TEFL and the Councils Highway Officer and finally the and around the pit would provide 10 percent which are user at which are accessible dwellings and with an accessible and space allocated each of these units
to conclude that the proposed application presents a high quality development and significant public benefits and the provision of 100 24 nappy woes pollution including 65 Long affordable rent dwellings getting of watching three-bed units until being for their units as attributes to 9 percent of their on your pits and for whom provision for that of the London Plan additionally application to go for those proposes the provision of employment floorspace and the form of get on its square metres of A1 office including 249 square metres of affordable workspace and 300 square metres of retail uses
the reserved matters application for approval of discharge of conditions have been considered in light of the relevant policies and standards and they'll be parameters as well as representations from third parties rappers of reserved matters for conformity with their previous development parameters for the scheme
and the submitted details including those under condition satisfactorily addressed the relevant policy considerations and other requirements including principle 7 and strategic and Site allocation in the Core Strategy
as such it is recommended that Committee resolve to Grant reserved matters approval in relation to PE 15 as per the rock the officer recommendation and he said OK thank you David
members let me say I've got questions indicated in order from the Councillor Olivier Councillor Bill and I'll I'll take those to first and the in ask you to answer them and then number questions from Councillor Karen and also Councillor Walsh in the CHAS well so Kevin Olivier you could go ahead place it you on the presentation left on the screen for the are not I don't think I need it for for my question but of course if if David needs to go back to that I maybe easy for you to and share your and share your screen so we can see who's talking and then really African if you need it to answer questions yet route of leasing and OK great right yet Councillor Boggia carrion bright thank you Chairman and thank you David for that presentations some my questions really around affordability now we all know that the overall scheme out on planning permission has got shocking minimum requirement affordability and that's thanks to Boris Johnson bring you that 15 percent of the whole side summary pleased that one of the early plots we've actually got a unit block where we've got over half of them are London affordable rent which is far better than than the at the definition of a former RUC so thank you I'm offers for doing that my question is in this particular block about access so because we want to make sure it's as a tenure blind as part possible how does it work in terms of whether your in so-called intermediate rate which I don't even accept his is an affordable level but but intermediate what's the difference between access for people on the shared ownership and those who are on London affordable rent that is that what was building OK if we take Councillor Bell's question as well and then I'll that he wants to those David
yes I questioned similar to Councillor balladeer so festival is this one building is my first question and if it is one building that round thing that which saw onscreen then how has the planning department approach the developer about pepper potting so we there's an issue of a poor doors in terms of separate entrances while which lotion doesn't allow in our planning policies so I'm told and the second aspect is round pepper potting so the shared ownership in the tenants are on the same rebels not restricted to different levels
David thank you Chair and so the building has to residential course and I actually met him first me sharing screen against her and him just for a shock
all this for wasn't through this
there's two residential course has touched on before and then to access in four London Forum in its forget it here and the shared ownership units located here
it is warm one more building and for most of the typical residential floor plan you can see here with warm home owing and interned Zoff
the the third over and planted his raised concern about me I agree herders are something to be would not approve and are not generally acceptable or not acceptable want all illusion
apologies are considered and access point which is disadvantaged by design or location where Internal off internally occupants don't have equal access to amenities etc and I think unless case with both accesses and entrances look at it implode close proximity to each other on the same stretch of for public realm
and thoughtful equal access to the main spine road air book that entrances are well designed and are equally at Ayr easily identifiable
is not the case that won an entrance is located in a disadvantages disadvantaged or less desirable location and the design quality as well is completely or across the entire block or residents for have equal access to communal amenity space and listen to the communal amenity space to the rear of the building and the reason why the spoiling an mini-bonds across the Borough don't have an Tenders pepper-potted throaty until there is up that registered providers possess the Stanley and they will require different tenures or you can separate course and in this way the management and service charge a phase can be kept to a minimum and to to ensure that afford of all of the units being provided as optimised
0here do you want to follow that up at all because if you if you don't I can think of her that her some more questions on the same topic yes so basically I will be asking changing that design because it had and how far the distances between the two entrances but that's not the point pointers you have an entrance for shared owners at least holders then you have an entrance for the tenants and that's not how you create mixed communities and I would say that one is a poor door and the other one is it doesn't matter whether they look the same the issue is as two separate entrances so for HAP share communal facilities at the rear and they can share entrances at the front and moreover and tells the pepper potting I think it's a pretty poor excuse for housing associations to news that on it's going to reduce leasehold Abell's perhaps they should produce these held a bills by actually dealing with housing management issues in a number of cases sad up that's a relevant argument either so I'll be asking later around how we through design changed that so
two entrances fine but there's two entrances are available to both tenants and also shadows and I I can't see Councillor Vale why if if this is partly shared ownership and partly completely rented that there is an element of rental therefore element of of management by landlord in in all of the all of the units in this Building so I am and I know because my son lives in a quite similar building on a development in village and so I can't quite see why and less well I can't see the logic in having more than one organisation managing those rentals so I can't see why they can't be completely pepper potted I think these are probably questions we can add to explore with the applicant rather than the planning officer per I let's hear the planning officer's comments on on what why if that if they think there there are reasons against that first Kevin do you want to come in on the same lawyer exactly I just want to say I think I'm Councillor bells actually made the point I just want to reinforce it to separate those two different tenures using separately as no need so let's let's about access to or them because there is a rental element in in all of the tennis the David de due June have any answers for this or due suggests we weeks for it with the applicant in them we could pick an explore of the applicant's Anvil thank 1 point our neck on that and on the points and regarding the two separate cores and having two separate accesses for the two different and Tanner's on a minute as a very fair point but perhaps the most most of the first and saw a plan here you can see where the and accesses can for the for the rant sorry
and for shared ownership and swimming what you what could for the alternative options of us would be to have one singular for North Ole thrived and and access then they gain from either an entrance for either tenure and the problem of the others and yet very very long corridor and which in itself is contrary to planning policy and the London Plan recommends are normally it units per colour and so as I say that in itself raises another
answered point non-compliance and with on the plans standards and Janet design quality standards and so at that would hold respond to that but I suppose that begs the question why not just Pepperpot the units in the building then I am not expecting you to know all this I think I think we should probably ask the applicant
if they got any any sustainable reasons for for doing this widely add the contrary to our intention at least can I move on so the other questions I think next I've got Councillor Karon with quite a few questions and then Councillor Walsh
Liam Curran are you are you where richer and going to endorse what the previous Members are speaking have said and also to try and drill down to the detail because I'm not great at reading architectural plans I don't have training in it
but in my experience lots of those buildings along the river that you've spoken about being able to access those and what happens is you do have to entrances
and they do have two different types of access and some you've had to go in which is the rentable affordable elements of it and the stairs upper than stares down ermine in this day 8 you would think you wouldn't be able to get away with the will you know Wilf stepped access only to some parts but that is what happens and so some of the guarantees I would be asking for is
about that are following up on the questions that Councillor Spon of here and Bell have asked I also like to add another point is some what's are quite a few developers do is they discriminate via entry phones and then introduce charges for entry votes in the in the rent or the lease and some be wrecked by 100 pounds a month for the use of the entry phone to La access to people in so I would like to see if we could come up with a recommendation that isn't permitted that knits uniform
and there's no extra charges for entry found which is a sort of sneaky wear fur putting a lot of expense on people also I just had a question about I've got one about the cultural strategy and perhaps that might be be for later
I and another one about landscaping said that King be dealt with later let come back to the Strategic Planning Committee at a later date and in the same question I would like to ask what else is going to come back to the Strategic Planning Committee at a later date
and final question is Ken are one of the officers explain for them benefit of the members of the public watching the meeting is how are we going to deal with the transport construction process are in order to minimise the effect on the residents because this is what they are concerned about thank you Chair
OK I'll staggered Robinson say come back initially on that BA that there are other officers he might want to bring in who I think are briefed on some of the issues you asked about and do you want to outline what your question about the cultural strategy is for that reason
you you're still muted Liam
apologies from everything that I've read and heard of the last meeting it seems that the applicant is not fulfilling the minimum statutory requirements of AQAP cultural Strategy in terms of participation I also seems to have a desultory attitude towards so I'm just
a really asking how is that progressing and what can we do and the asking the spirit of cooperation the application joins in with the cultural Strategy with gusto and the really like to encourage them as as Chair of sustainable development and I know that the ward councillors would I think it would be very positive Chair and I know that there's some friction between you know that always happens to the applicant and the and local residents and sometimes the planning authority but I think it is a marvellous opportunity for Hutchison to
the more open and engaging with everyone in an embrace the cultural Strategy with gusto
thank you
in a David but if you if you want to bring in some Philco leagues I know Viv it's like me bested talking about the cultural strategy and our approach to it yeah I mean I can I can run through the other point Sam if a federal excellent release of the strategy he said today
and the in relation to the stepped access and the the heart attacks and design team that designed the and proposed building to the 10 percent compared to 10 percent yesterday compliant was part and for three of the voting legs which is voting urban wheelchair-user accessible violence and so to those units would be an level access as is the rest of the care of has are the rest of units proposed and the wheelchair user accessible dwellings and also other the parking spaces and provided on a one to one basis as well and so on that basis three or four say of the building regs and the planning policy Bell the plan policy in that regard am regard to extra charges and service charges the sexual sexist and found information the Clutters basically that's the developer have to agree with the future registered provider on the Council and the service charges are monitored charges and that they would love it or beloved on future occupants and one of sexual cards that those are kept to a minimum and turned a Optimus affordable if the oldest units and so Councillor Reid retained control on of that and through the section 1 of sex agreements again and now responded out an informative reminding the applicant of that and and the buffet to do so
On the the landscaping reserved matter application and appreciates slightly confusion as the other two you can forward his full reserved matters packages the suffocation and the full detail of the landscape and as yet to be drawn up and therefore would come forward as part of the future submission
and other conditions as well so the RAF as a recommendation for this application outlines walks conditions and of the OPP have been recommended for approval Allers and would have to be and some better later DIT and and Beckinsale Strategic Planning career and in accordance with our strategic or the far side taken stated Planning Committee in accordance with our Statement of Community involvement and in relation to the number of objections and the same or if numbers were to request otherwise right so famous yes they would come back to estimate the
yeah yeah I can't blame and and
before going to the cultural Strategy young I just wanted to follow up on that count you go back to the ground floor a plan please
and where council about were suggesting up between the two separate entrances read while in or signing up to the long code or am I can see a lot of stairs between those two entrances and I just wondered if you could take us through through that what what does actually knew I was walking through one entrance where the other what what would I be walking along what would I need to go through that space sadly the damage damage has been shown isn't a very high Rares and Mitchell parties for that
I think the stairs than you might be referring to the is lot cycle parking provided an approach for level and internally
the
OK so Garrison is that floor all on one level
yeah so the image of the moments at ground floor plan and so for the she can see my cursor and this is the core and for access to the long and affordable rent units he had left here and are a step or behind us and and further source and turn the screen as the cycle Parkin
then moving to the shared ownership units again you have left here and the core and Aster access as well so and then the back stories here to the left of that
can I ask you Councillor move between the two what one of those
markings near the looked like stairs to me in that words bend and
and that the one day any direct access between the two course and distract access to the EU no amenity space and to the rear of the site and from those colours and then moving up through the the to course remained separate and apart from voting
you can see the stair cores here
and here and left as well
to me there wouldn't be any 3 access through the entire bulletin and an after to reduce the number of units per core
so I'm so just to to just be absolutely sure it's all of its current right in my head if you have go back to the ground floor a plan
that is an on on her looking at their failure earned gap
so sorry to sound tents but others need to be very clear in my mind weigh where the to entrances meet as it were although you're saying there's no passage between the two there's that there's a slight dogleg isn't the and there's lots of hatching markings what all those markings signify apart from you so cycle parking yeah so between the two Coreys have got some and a one commercial unit here
so I can't see the cursor m x 0 sorry right as a one year got it got it and then a day one commercially in it and that has a smaller state frontage and a dog legs around the base of the A1 unit
and then just to the right of that they won yet there was just referring to is the listed as a cycle parking store
and then further cycle parking and then the access through the core for the shared ownership units
OK shall we
sorry
sorry
take your bicycle through from the entrance Where'd you Go exemption to the cycle parking and of some of the shop with the B 1 is in in the way
hence the cycle parking Candy access to the cycle store here can be accessed from streets and from the spine Road front and through the score not the access from the app parking area at the rear and an through the communal and so the communal and media to the rear
and innocence
could you point where your cursorily dismissed thing now is that where this cycle parking was for the rented units hen here this is again this Executive cycle storages Welby cycle storage hasn't been recommended for approval as part of this application and sold by Unite and planning permission condition that would again this part of the future submission has shown the same park in a more detailed forgot to what's accessible cycle Arkan access and so that information is to be forthcoming but yes and indicatively for my cursors know him circling at that's one of the cycle stores for the tweetable rent units
sorry showing that there was nothing in the no camp the floor as it work that claim so what we're looking at on this plan isn't what we're all going to prove tonight which I could find and that's what over the rules are well after finding slightly confusing is there anything else we're looking at that isn't going to be decided tonight strictly speaking yes I appreciate it is about and confusion by the schemes come part forward and and various applications and no ever seen Owl SEN and was on the floor plans for approval
the cycle parking and will be located in these areas it's just the actual access and to access external access and an exact and final numbers of third cycle parking spaces to be approved
I don't like him the the landscaping area to the rear of the block CAMHS at the detailed design of that as yet to come forward as well hope that looks a bit clearer
so there is potential to introduce some spawned of segregation in the garden the shirt garden area and has been are they wouldn't accept that basically
so having said that will come back as part of the landscaping submission to this Committee limb
OK and furniture just sorry alight I did have something else to sack a our just about the entry phones and all that stuff I would like that to be an informative the no that's reserved and apply planners can look up what the applicant is proposing when it comes to be negotiated with the tenant sound the developers and them and us
noted I so I think you asked about the cultural Strategy I'm going to call in villains who has been dealing with the applicant on that largely for the council I suspect he by say pretty much the same as he said at the previous part of this meeting but we'll we'll see if there's anything specific to this plot and I think you asked about the traffic impacts of building work on the site and I think that's probably going to be something that we have to find a way of considering over that the whole of the impact of all of the developments that are going to go on this site and those overseeing the last number of years so I'm going to ask hematoma or Michael Forest riff they can respond on on that so so Viv can you can you pad in the thing on the cultural strategy
yes any chair hopefully everyone can hear me a couple of points from me largely as you suspected repeating what I said that the first part of this meeting last time we met so the comfort current raise the question about fulfilling minimum statutory requirements for consultation engagement
as far as that's concerned the applicant has since the last meeting this week they submitted the start of the and enhanced proposal for community consultation communication and engagement that is with us as officers at the moment full consideration it I don't think it's ready yet to be shared more widely I think we have a number of questions we'd like to ask about that that the the move has been already made since the last meeting to submit information to improve consultation and communication locally
I think the comment Councillor Karen made about it being felt to be an adequate in the past is a largely upheld by all the conversations and engagement I've hard with local community interest groups and with the general public in the area so there is more to be done around that with regard to the actual initial cultural strategy itself then
just to remind members what I said last time there was an initial cultural St cultural Strategy submitted and that was refused by the Planning authorities being inadequate a further amendment was made in 2 thousand and 18 which was also declined but in December last year fresh consultants had been appointed a draft was certainly could informally amongst of both officers in the Council and also shared with members of the cultural Steering Group in formally there was a more positive response to what was received in December last year
and the applicants
I had started the process of looking for a reconvened meeting of this country Steering Group at consider securing the agreement to go out to buy the public consultation on on this latest pollution
that happened just before we went into lockdown since the last meeting of the Strategic Planning Committee the applicant's half contact with members of the cultural steering group looking for a date to reconvene that meeting at a push this forward so hopefully that will make progress in the coming weeks and months thank you Chair OK and I my Cole all the for recruiting into invited to that account for a strategy as Chair and firm sustainable development
they're happy to meet or repair replied that too yes yes Corseford that Thatcher with regard to the actual draft or revised draft cultural Strategy more than happy to share that with Councillor current on the any other Councillors for that matter in terms of attendance at the cultural Steering Group there there is the outline planning permission has very strict conditions about who isn't who are members of that a steering group so there there are nominated and agreed members between the applicants on the Council
sorry I think attendance at this early stage of the Steering Group can't take place but the as soon as that is authorised to go into the public domain Members and under the members of the public generally there will be invited to take part in in that and are clearly I think I was that goes through the process Councillor currents Sustainable Development Steering Committee can could look at that on the way up to mayor and cabinet thank you Chair
OK
yes I fact and to understand its restricted or by the covenants or the second one of six but I'm just putting it out there as her you know a thing that the more people are involved directly in the committee are list invited to attend and the more engagement that the better it will be the outcome for all concerned that you
OK and I'm you would last about transport it traffic impacts of the of the building work and I'm just going to ask him or Michael or anybody else they nominate two give us a quick response on that I don't know if we'll be able to explore it as fully as possible in the course of this application yes Chair I'm happy to on happy to come back on that so I mean I shall yeah I shall imagine the an additional outline permission for up to three and a half thousand new homes certainly and included a lot of detail around impacts on the local area Thu and it was a development and a large part of that was about construction impacts and impacts and from
traffic and as well so on the outline permission there is a condition condition 44 which requires quite a lot of detail around construction so in 20 17 a site wide quite general and Code of construction practice was agreed and and then the next stages would be for phase sub-phase plots specific and Code of construction practice to come forward and that would also outline construction traffic importantly a part of that and it is something that during the outline Lewisham really pushed for was around maximising the use of the river so that we can limit the impacts and on streets and yes there's also sort of associated and conditions around ensuring that the jetty can be used EMI structurally sound I believe Councillor common you you requested that condition at the time and that that is on there so we've got the things in place to try to reduce the impacts and maximise the use of the river
of course with the scheme of this scale there will be impacts and it's around mitigating those so this is another one of those areas where we don't have that detail yet but it would come forward at a feature day and would be needed in advance of any development commencing on this plot and the others that applies across the across the piece as well
OK thank you in that regular rightwing Liam you've got more
problem is just a brief
a response and I'd like to thank him for that response that so gives us reassurance and information and I just like that we can share it with the community groups like Deptford folk who wrote to us today with their concerns about the out to make sure that they are fully briefed as to how it is going to her where s in terms of monitoring and controlling the traffic because rightly they are going to
no one say endure but have to live with whatever we do or whatever the applicants do and I'd like to emphasise again the fact that we're pushing for it to come via river the building materials and as much traffic to come via River as possible
Farry happen it said to set out on the details of how its captured in the outline
thank you but I think that would be useful for for a lot of Members are interested in in this as as the site finally starts making some progress right I it's nearly neither Clark I'd there are still probably a couple more issues to be explored in your presentation before the April 2 rat cat I guess the question yes I am aware that count Harlow is waiting to ask question and Councillor Walsh who indicated so at the earlier albeit that was more than half an hour ago I'm very sorry that you had to wait so long both of you Councillor Walsh yours was first and then Councillor clocks and then I'm going to ask David to respond to to pool of what you have both to ask and if any other Councillors need to ask any more questions the officer presentation indicating the chat now otherwise I'll assume we'll be moving onto the applicant the K her Councillor Walsh thank you very much Chair I think I want to support everything that councillors Bell and Oliver said about these poor doors and pour cause I don't like it I think that we need to go back and have a look at that going forward because I think
and though they may have felt the same standard children from one block will not be out and readily access children of another block and mix and mingle buildings great communities that from for his for me is really wrong I like to just pick up if I might want to form the interesting and good things about this development is that there is a number of disabled accessible dwellings included an it and I want to I know that we've got some things that will be coming back to this Committee such as landscaping for the rear garden and I just want to make sure that officers are thinking about back to say that the stable liveability and throughout this holds Our scheme and this designers come forward SNI so that hurtling thing to access to the bus for making sure the bus stops and bus shelters and fat is around the garden area being or having play equipment for both disabled and non-disabled children because some of the PE kit in the flat might be disabled and making sure that we've thought about how wheelchair users my interact with the business users as well at ground floor level so I quite liked have maybe just to one of officer time talking about the holistic nature of disabled access and how we're going to ensure the sister or relevance accessible to all OK thank you and Councillor Clarke finally in Surrey had to wait so long thank you know Kevin charges didn't know at the my chat was coming through and the other question was and that I had was about the thermal massing of the building and because I know we're looking at plot by plot but it's also strategic GI across the site and there seems to be a limited amount of fur landscaping around nor landscaping is going to be separate which makes it more difficult but
the this I wanted to know a little bit more about this thermal impact of these buildings the roads around them because it seems to be a lot of concrete with a few trees dotted and this could actually end up creating a heat island effect as we found in many other places in cities and the city as heating up generally and I just wondered if we had any if this has ever looked at in these applications or if there's any information on that because I couldn't find it specifically are considered in any of the report the other question was about green roofs I know their mentioned on page 52 and I just wondered if the officer had any information about the green roofs exactly to what extent that is and any green was or green roofs as in the GLA report of the backers whether some information on that but I'd like a little bit more information on that the third thing was parking for the commercial units I just wondered if there was any cause small businesses in particular often can't afford a lot of them delivery you know expensive delivery firms and and often need to come back and forth from their own businesses I wondered if that had been covered at I couldn't see I've read the bought thing but I can't remember seeing that
and the fourth question was just about the place BIS if if you could give a little bit more information because it seems a bit confusing at 0to 5 seem to be covered but 5 to 11 and 12 plus alluding to be relevant for clear off site which I was quite sure I understood fully so I'm and the final one was just the daylight on 11 per cent of rooms in the summer would have beyond the BRE guidance on daylight specially on the lower floors which are often given to those who are room in the cheaper deemed cheaper accommodation
I just wondered if we had any thoughts on that thanks Chair
OK David can you if you motived all of the questions in both of those
yes after them Trefil fade upon me of a massive lessened them three points to cover Here's moved back cancer Walsh's comments him in relation to the I'm basically the lovable day of the plot and the wider openside for those way of
and it access for wheelchairs or other ways and I think we touched upon this about in the previous and meeting an for the way they want to to that it is something that we're baneful often and certainly as the scheme as designed and the public realm as desired coming forward we want to achieve the maximum levels and often levels of accessibility and for all users no future users of the site and will be ensuring that the African tame is noted your comments from tonight as welcome Sir Walsh and and as these details are designed and pre-Alps coming forward and the dots FOI taking into account am at a stage we don't have
and we don't have
and additional information as it was proposed often and tackles and emerges four-tenths certainly going forward something rearming for often more benign for us
in relation to use the thermal massing and they're hidden in the fact and comments and consider and Clarke raised wrong that the open planning permission was submitted with her and extremely Langley and environmental impact assessments and to all those and embarks were fully considered that stage in relation to the mastering being proposed
it doesn't really ability to read open greasiest application love respect of the stage can the Moston husband faxed on a look that some of that can be no amazed through landscaping and again we can we can save that to an extent and going forward but again perhaps you're tied in to foul me so not to an extent as well and without any planning permission and promotor so we must work with any
May I ask the Minister to if if trees are hot when we talk about landscaping does that include the trees for that come back to us on a tree or trees being dealt with separately because I don't quite understand what we're dealing with tonight if faith it's landscaping does that include the trees as well yes there's an influence includes trees as well I think it's actually specified specifically on the and the landscape and armed
public realm condition when you details and species of trees and other and vegetation the PayPerPost OK I'm I'm were wooed we will be getting that at this committee Suzella but Joni you have over the swell 3
yes thank you very much Chair at Castle Clarke really good point about photovoltaics in her submission actually I disagree with what's written upon what the applicant saying there is now a large body of evidence and this committee has actually built the Sinn before two applications by of solar roofs or more effective than green roofs and so the Panel's separate it doesn't have to be one of the other and there is a significant body of evidence about that and I know that we have a look to that before and can I get some guidance from officers about that
yes yes said another good point and again going back to the outline planning permission C energy strategy and provision of green roofs were agreed at this stage for that stage and of the development and as a result staff against has proposed this came in accordance Bill people promise which is simply for the provision of fee biodiverse scrub and green living roof and broadening of English and Arabic does anything to stop them personally from proposing PV panels for Astley last weekend to to comment on that and in terms of the scheme the in compliance with the OP parameters and it is not regarded as a safety energy strategy for the entire development was agreed at an unplanned permission stage and PV panels weren't orderly agreed energy Strategy them and at a sub-regional reason the Rodborough count propose another stage and
but for for us to refuse the scheme on non provision of PV panels wouldn't a passable and at an another courses in common with with a lot of the issues that we we like to have in the overall application on this site for our hands are tied as we been right reminded over and over again by the decision made by the Mayor of London not the current Mayor of London that the one before him
so we can only really negotiate with the African within what's already there what they already been given permission by somebody else for I suggest some of the issues that we've just been raised are things we can ask the applicant iTunes applicants representatives have been listening to the discussion so far I see no more questions indicated by members of the Committee so shall if you were trying to learn if somehow not reach the chap pain and therefore I'm going to propose that we move on to hear from the applicant's representatives and I think I've a list of who's going to speak and the long list of applicant's representative Sir
who are available to answer our questions so I'm going to but I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves and then kept them give them five minutes to address us before we start asking them probably quite a lot of questions
OK thank you and good evening hello my name's Barnaby Collins enough speaking to bar on-site on behalf of the applicant and Suckling's location as noted earlier we have complied with the obligations of the outline permission the set out the content layout form massing and scale of PE 15 providing here the detail of what has already been approved design access panelled endorses their design and officers confirmed that the are amaze accord with the 18 parameters mound by outline permission
officers concluded that the design detail is an appropriate response to the significance of the site and that the lay out an internal living conditions meet local plan standards Local Plan standards and thus acceptable us negotiate Boyer Planning officers the PE 15 affordable housing is being brought forward earlier the consented the greater proportion of social rent and consented 52 percent compared to 32 30 percent is more affordable and consented
and the PR and P 22 committed we heard loud and clear your thoughts on local community engagement as a result we are in discussions with officers about agreeing more meaningful package of communication and engagement arrangements to address on the Commons just being maze I've despite point out that on the design of that XI qualities consistent across all tenures or certainly be no charge for entry phones but because it has to be to cause because of the maximum of eight units per core the scheme is deep has been deemed by officers to be policy compliant
we've got a traffic impact yes I'm sure we can through the later condition condition 44 G and 54 consider River Bourne phrase and the river is there right next us because and we'll be considering us in due course regarding business parking car-parking I'm sure we can allocate some of the residential car parking for business use of the car parking as expressed
and regarding PV panels on the roof I'm sure we can get that further consideration thank you and if there's any questions I lather asked the myself or draw some of the team to help us those questions
thank you very much Mr. Collins okay I've got questions for you indicated I Council Olivier first-inning Councillor Gallaher so let's take those two and the no move-on and caring Olivier yeah thank you Mr. Collins and you said that this idea of having two separate parts to the the building is policy compliant may well be policy compliant but but I think you need to hear what we're saying about opening this up properly to all residents regardless of their the nature of their tenure so I'm ought to hear what you're going to do about what you can do to me our concern as a Committee or silly sums Committee on on with what's being four of us OK and Ashling Councillor Gallaher can we go on to your boss
and I have already spent Councillor Bell's question might be along similar lines yet just carry following from what Conservative via has said and it would be good to know if you've been speaking to any housing associations or by potentially taking the buildings and I am and I'm not I'm not sure if you have read out and would wonder why pepper potting is not something that you would be willing to consider a C and that are am particularly because for instance with Lewisham homes are our own ALMO at there are many leaseholders and Lewisham homes and then attendance Lewisham homes and we all managed to live in the extracts very well despite the fact that it's because of Right to Buy Sir would would but would like to know what you think about that Councillor Bell would I be without the right in a in guessing that you might want to ask Mr. Collins about similar virtues yes they are Salecia so yes
bombings festival thank you for giving us more affordable housing is not enough but thank you anyway because obviously biased on some gave us this sum
this dog's breakfast therefore we're going to have to them get what we can but the question I have an I heard is Alan queue that's the R P that you've you've signed up to this so the the argument that housing associations have around to different buildings doesn't apply because this entire building is affordable housing and between London affordable rent and shared ownership which means the housing association will be managing both so if one Housing Association as managing both crept me fine wrong that means that the the the costs of management building will be less because it's both shared owners and tenants are paying for the Service charges so across run buildings going to be us so as set out the planning policies which are officers of given you so Amma mug navigate about that but given that this is unless I'm wrong one housing association managing both tenure types then pepper potting is a way round the planning policy problems so I'd like to ask that that is done so that people like me for example have more reason to vote for this then to vote against it thank you
could I get about officers Jesty please come in I think those are all broadly related and yet it has been discussed as with some ourselves and I don't think they'd be included jet maturing here one of those not I be entirely it it is one building not separate buildings it's one building and within that building that no reason why things couldn't be pepper-potted other than when we work within the confines of your pani pulsing dance regarding 8 years for Core etc we forced into having to cause than it actually falls that the layout will have social on one side and intermediate the other side but apart from that the Irish we consider it in further and further but the plots of other development plots see whether we can work around your development but your your policy stands to see whether we can
I did what you're seeking us to do
I sympathise about the policies that have put you in this position
OK and I think that's an issue for our Planning officers to note when we week below will be arriving at a planning policies ourselves that hamper some of our other aims which also embedded in planning policies
OK shall eat shall we move on I got Councillor Olivier I think you want to follow up questions well yeah now I hear I hear we I hear the you hearing us going forward I'm I'm concentrating on this way here for this application yet so if you know you here is tonight you can put we can you can agree a condition and say right this is how we're going to do it so
can you actually reserve that point and make sure that you can actually see how you can make sure is either pepper-potted or opened up in some other way because that's I think what most of us in all of us is committee want to hear
I think we could do with this particular plot because we're confined by the by outpatients before year end in the premise that outline planning permission and why can't get given my word that we will get this service consideration with your officers the further plots
I
I'll hold out for OK thank you I see no other Members indicating they want to ask questions of the applicant present a nervy wait in their hands frantically so Mr. Collins thank you very much thank you and your team that I know were on hand
and let's move on to hear from the objectors please if you could turn your turn your camera of Mr. Collins now as objectors I believe there are two people who are going to share the speaking time of 5 minutes Malcolm Cadman and Marion breeks and I get well things we can confirm was was which order you want it to to go in Malcolm and Marion are you both and me in 48 go contact with the meeting
hello
hello is that is that Mariam Brink's yes hello marry can I can I just check that we've got Malcolm as well
I think we do Malcolm Kemeny you are you were in the meeting OK
have you have you and Marion decided who is going to have the first half of the speaking time Malcolm
he's been held on 1st June
OK right I'll I'll sit my time of 5 minutes I won't charge you for any time that's taken up with technical word technical changeovers and so on and but I'll let you know when when you've had two and a half minutes of it is that OK yeah and then you can hand over to to to Marion and if you could say when you introduce yourself what organisations your representing both of you and then obviously if you can both stay in the meeting so that members can ask either of you questions at when you finish and I think also Roger Green is in the meeting and he may well be called on to answer some of the questions because I know you're you're partly representing what he would otherwise have said
OK so Malcolm from going ahead please
Malcolm Cadman and points for debt burden if you to for at Plot 15 as be bought for his son non-private 4 thousand phase 1 slightly revised again after the first admission snow but slightly higher for the rental and perching intermediate Veja you're going to get about 3 percent from this particular plot should about one and a half per cent of affordable rented housing at the LDP so despite if I percent driver and his best 50 percent affordable says very low with 3 thousand 500 units
the 50 per cent non-private affordable is spread across the whole EU element to site-wide Atkin official folk view p when time vicious given in 20 14 20 15 there was a a 70 percent shared ownership that the same ratio put into that actual
some sort of play for the time just quite the opposite in your course to two-tier planning policy number 1 your policy isn't about the amount that more affordable then for shared ownership and you actually like to have a target for fitting centre for them all within the overall sound percent mix to set extension media and loss of family sized houses as one so they are or may on this one failed recall policy through a number of bedrooms not appropriate help pollution by the policy needed you well know is first of all I beguines who are getting a lot of one to two voting for beers belittled styling a mountain shot three bedroom properties get housing awareness of 10 thousand is going to be really not at all by this and that as you coming forward shadows you first serves effect receptive is video on the private ownership introducing this year I suppose but a more bitterness buying a property tray arising out of the bay at the Sánchez footie about 25 said the 30 percent so very few be but she achieved that full
a shared ownership and of course you've got no genuine social rented housing in the escape but London affordable rent which is secure centred Marco pollution and would be about 30 to 50 percent higher Ventnor current counselling so it could be and an 50 a week for one bedroom compared to just under that kind relation with the budget as a security tenure as well and what not a service charge when applied Mutis about three to five years only and then there's me that lot higher ecstatically misses the chronic failure is what riffing the tap about you want to see Lucian in the policy and design voted those align be South that clear sort of division between the rental Affordable secondary governance would lack of the back and away from the river all of what before it is driver towards a river and as the Dog and attention being paid to long vistas Messent above his face up like this to start you off there are Sarko
the Chair OK let less Marion are you can you switch your Cameron coming now
thank you thank you welcome to the meeting if you can introduce yourself start by introducing yourself and any organisation you represent and then I'll learn a restart the timer OK thank you why am I my Inrix again UK coordinator for the Alliance for children
I am getting on for the children and Young People's ahead and cook for voice for debt for it and get for me the root action
I want to introduce the concept of children I send indicator species if a neighbourhood or city is healthy for children it's healthy for everyone
Paul child-friendly other proposals for Plot 15 imagine a ten-year old boy with a football on his way out when he shares a room with his brother there is scarcely space to move around the for his clothes toys or do his homework there is a study were usually is prudent for working from home and there is not much space for him he's glad to go out what security Reagan's because he beach when his way how can a bulletin iv easily recall sheer to my charms I didn't get to the sheriff garden his those faced a kick his bowler and we Adams complain is there any adventurous equipment within sight of his home how far to find a playground and other children could do
August safe routes and clear views or to school what have you want to buy a snack or more
these questions are crucial to the independence healthy government mental health and well being of children they must be taken account in any paid certainty
no minimum 10 square metres time is an important guide but in itself is not a please shut with you I was written questions of an aunt Mole are he central part of being a policy
children's social infrastructure is can scarcely thought through from the child's point of view better facilities in residence garden are inadequate to provide a stimulating he won more attention must be paid to the consequences of what such a large influx of children miracle green space more amount of money as compensation for the erosion opportunities the plan had only been children
we're trying to the idea of children indicator species were proposals for Plot 3 p for could provide a healthy and a woman who children thoughtful we can can shows that these proposals on refer all potential residents and should not be accepted
thank you very much
I think I think there should be an important points members might want to ask you about specific applications to this this proposed application met members has anybody got me questions for either of the of Dexter's
a
no 0 right at counts Councillor Clarke you've got a question near infesting you and so as Councillor Belsey Councillor Clarke you go first please yes thank you I did ask the officer the about this and I think he forgot about an attorney to come back to it and when we had the chance to did debate at the end but I'd asked about the place fares and the because it seemed that it was within guidelines for 0 to 5 as I understood but not 5 to 11 or 12 and above that I understand her supposed to be Crear given this off site so as going to ask how that would work and I don't know if either of the objectors would like to sort of give it a bit more on their opinion affirm that how it would work on this particular site and the place this that's the to is there because I know that it says also there's on catch fit 34 and application references a clear strategy but it's not outlined in the p p so I wonder what the play strategy what how that relates to this application as well we thank you to you if you might want to put that on the the list for one of the officers to come back on possibly something we can deal with when the landscaping of this comes back to us but I was going to ask as to whether it was less let's ask the objects as there ever your nuts aswell Marian that that's probably for you to answer if you can was worthy Ken square metres comes from a long one and is now a policy in milkman
and it's to give an indication of how much space to low wall children more just under forms and the policy was referring to only discusses the twins Council returns and in the original submission it appear so they were alone for children outrage real open to be on one side who not in local parks
what I've been pushing that all with all children neater have playspace within sight of the wound
were to promote their policy self-loathing 400 missions or some homes OK Councillor Councillor Karen you indicated you got a question Council believe indicated you got a comment to make so maybe that should come after we've dealt with questions to the objectives of your happy with that okay Councillor Karon your question please with the objective than cure 0 Lancet Lasker both Maryam bricks nothing thank you for coming along tonight virtually and making a contributions
I just wanted to ask you what would you how would you like to see that developer engaging with community groups like itself over the next few years because we need to have a real us what are they not doing a work should there be doing because we're in for a long haul here
very good question Malcolm Jul to get first on that actually prior hard on land and at some really everyone and to be involved and up up it fun turn person we'd better very remote developers particularly development we had a better outcome elsewhere every other developments that maybe we can get some benefits of all of the people who actually live work and enjoy Deptford as always be no intention that against redevelopment we'd like to have a really really good quality and respects the history of the site as one about Billy point things and the green environment and a coded 19 yet again as I lighted the bankers being more disadvantaged and so on so that all these factors to take into account the Neighbourhood Plan Bernard you some direct consultation with the aim is to make sure they get their news for a change inside the key policies
Mary would you like to come back on that yes I think they sickly people go feel they are being listened to one consultation is actually an exhibition or when the developers talons home
how good the development is and we should really be grateful and appreciate too but children go and some 0 residence don't appreciate it when they want their point to be seen to one held
On responded to a survey is something this important K I and I don't have in front of me the that the details of the Yemm the cultural Strategy consultation Group Berlitz that was mentioned earlier whose membership has been so tied down by the Mayor of London's decision but some I would sincerely hope it involves young people directly and if it doesn't the developer is willing to and make amendments to let us help them involve young people it directly and you know we have lots of lots of mechanisms of already that this councillors developed to engage young people which they should be taking advantage of OK I don't see any more questions for the objects as indicated on the chat pain so if you could are your your welcome to stay in the online meeting as he joined in this way Malcolm and Marion but if you could switch your cameras off delays and make sure your Mike stay you said for the rest of our discussion I am not entirely sure whether we're expecting Councillor Keller her to speak as a ward councillor for Evelyn Ward under Standing orders and sheet she certainly did on the other two applications that we heard in the previous part of this meeting does dim we have Councillor Keller hit in the meeting please or yes yes we don't OK at Councillor Keller her would you like to take the floor next please and addressed the Committee and o and are just before you do and you can switch your camera on our Councillor Gallaher once a clarification on something
Councillor Gallagher Headley's 9th it'd it occurred for after after after some aspects 0 OK right OK let's let's go ahead then we Councillor Keller her are you are you with us yes I you of excellent bright welcome to see Planning Committee you've been at the same strategic planning committee meeting before but then there is just this two week gap that we will suffered so but we now on Plot 15 please let us know your views and I Shoom your representing all of even Ward Councillors I am
and thank you care and I stand by everything that I said at the last meeting an ungrateful fold questions that have been asked that this meeting an and I fully support my community our Roberts take a different tactic is evening you did ask me last last time chaired to be more positive so I've taken that on board
and there are therefore I beg your indulgence was something that may be a little strange
and if officer good could bring up the overall outline plan I'd be very grateful place for could just raving yet
yeah what to put on a bit circular concert Heller just just the outline of the full site
yet there was nothing to the one that identifies the different plots you made it that'll do yeah
I've got one of the parameter plans and coastal her that and the cats and the plots so you should be able to speak to that I'll share 9
yeah that's excellent thank you so imagine coming in for the entrance at the bottom centre of your screen on the right-hand side you see a very busy area and you you actually spot Copnor people you seen on the telly
jam-packed what's going on but you know you can't find out
so you walk forward through an open area in front of you you see the Olympia building equally busy but in front of it is statue of Thomas Equiano
one of our famous sons and
he Olympia building has become a museum
dedicated to the slave trade and understanding the lessons that we need to learn from that
to your left is a parking area with some low rise housing that all families this creates an open space that is accessible and welcoming to all and these are the things that we have discussing at last time I referred to plans I think I was mistaken by some as people thinking we'd actually gonna draw this out now is drawn out because we don't get paid for that however these are the things that we've been discussing with the community I refer specifically to the meeting held in February where all our community groups were invited to discuss these very issues what our past looks like what our present looks like what we want our future to look like and how convoys can being of well we shouldn't call it convoys really she could include what is Doyle dockyard
and that's
what people are envisaging highly skilled labour that they can be involved in that they can feel proud of good homes that meet their needs
and accessible space
this is what we would like to see this is the alternative
I'm and it's up to the developer we are we are aware of that we've been told we don't have any choices we have no power but they do
and I can have the power to listen
I'm to make changes
I'm Chair thank you very much when I go thank you Savana I do members of the Committee want to ask any questions of the ward councillor first of all
OK 8
I can save a bit I'm being tugged at the Atkins representative has has lost contact with the meeting in his being been brought or backing so we'll wait until we've heard that he is before we make any points any other points that the we want the applicant to here I think what you what you say what you said Councillor Keller her goes goes a bit beyond plot 15 that were allowed to consider considerations of for tonight
David could you could you and share your screen again so we can see most Members of the Committee on the screen and I and it's been suggested we are where are we will and a half hours into the meeting is being suggested we have a very brief adjournment for a comfort break for members while our technician gets the applicant back into the the meeting so I suggest we adjourn I make it
almost 9 40 can we adjourn until 9 45 please and then we've we'll meet up short discussion I think some officer advice and will have to reach a decision so I'm hoping we can do that by about 10 o'clock tonight
thank God we didn't carry on doing shoots within height right so a short break can we will be back in the room by 9 45 please can I turn my camera my Mike off Nowell a silver yes please Señor Cameron Mike off
webcasting Officer

2 PLOT 15 CONVOYS WHARF, LONDON, SE8 3JH

I believe we're back webcasting now so we're resuming the meeting with everybody once he been refreshed with a cup of tea or whatever
we've heard from the applicant and asked questions we've heard from the two objectors representatives and we heard from the ward Councillor Councillor Keller and we now need to move on so he further deliberations or discussions we ought to have any further questions we need to ask of our own officers are and I think Councillor BELL you'd indicated before we broke that you would like to make a comment
I don't think anybody else so far had indicated a comment that that might be cancelled Gallaher 0 and Councillor Bonneville is so in so I think Councillor Councillor Bethell Councillor Gallaher and then Council of Olivier
9 comma Westminster about term London affordable rents as I keep on saying they are social rents and I'll give you an example every development is different based on the air the average earnings but also the fact that new build housing is always more expensive than our to the shall stock from the 60 s and 70s so out to clear that up
OK right thank you Councillor Gallaher what was it a comment you wanted to make this point yet and I just wanted to get absolute clarification from the applicant that they are not willing to entering a condition about pepper potting I think we had a pretty clear answer from them open about that on this application so I think I think
at that's that's the basis on which will have to reach judgment Michael Forrester is saying he can inform us some more on that issue so Michael due on the the floor
I am that we've been having a and Pat during that plight at of now now and to vote or pepper potting
what we could do is to amend the resolution before members and that would be to add a clause which requires the the other perks or you to use all reasonable endeavours and to promote pepper potting liaison with an API and setting out how that's possible or otherwise for what massacres we have they haven't reached any advanced stage of negotiation with a registered provider or is it that yet that's right so
Ballance's if not secured that an API we can't give absolute that we could add that as a further clause into a 1 6 that gives us a further review at that when the when the time is right
what will it be if you seem to relish the developers indicated that he wouldn't object to that we can insert it into the section 1 0 6 legal agreement that sounds to me a better assurance than just putting an informative on the application which gives the developer no no obligation but I hope I'm happy to hear what other Members think about that that as a suggestion
everybody wants to
right sorry I carry new you happy you'd indicated already so young as you go next and they are thank you actually might thank you Chair Michael anticipated might my question to officers
on this because you think you can see the feeling of myself and others a strong feeling actually very strong feeling that that we need to make this tenure blind as possible
and I just want assurances here because informatives is is yeah it's nice language and you could get disc expresses are are and you know are feeling about things but it but I want legal force I just want to be absolutely clear that this condition if that's put in tonight and it gives it retains for Platt the planning authority ourselves the ability to insist that that that the that the that was pepper potting or something else but this will be an open an open development and and it will be tenure blind in that sense so I have that assurance about what we are proposing to as Michel
and though it wouldn't be an informative or condition it would be inserted into the legal agreement for recovering quite thumb from head behind it and what work actively suggesting there is that that the development uses and the reportable to promote reporting and we see how they found that
with an API so that's what we fought with the
signature what would it help if we also got some assurance from Charles our our legal adviser at an eye on the strength of that ease any my conclusion I am unlike you I'm not a lawyer but I think I think a section 1 0 6 clauses better than an informative that Charles do you want to come in on that
of course as with my microphone to come on I mean I was outspoken to Michael already about this suggested Obler and obligation and I think it might view it it goes on a long way in seeking to address the concerns that have been raised in this meeting and other section 1 2 6 it is enforceable and and as Michael Sands and under this suggested obligation what you would have is an ability to look at the endeavours made of the efforts made by the applicant in trying to seek pepper potting for the tenure and in my view that it is it is a good solution and at the moment and would help move towards a pepper potting if if it were possible
having a OK thank you to us that is actually that's that does some very positive I like that that that thinking I just want to be clear as what that saying is well look it's almost like use your best endeavours to try and pepper pot but ultimately if they come back and say Well we tried you know but this is not possible
as pepper potting but there's also does this issue about the split core how it can we look at the impression I got and the Africans first jump in if I'm wrong here was at well their hands are tied because well that's that's what you know that's what planning policy is that's what we've got to follow I want to be able to see what we can do to say actually as a practical issue here let can is anything stopping us from actually opening up his practical she so putting great best endeavours Yapp but what about opening up this core can we do anything about that and and putting that to the section 1 6 agreement
and if I can come back only on the lay up point you mean been balloon from why the building has a set number of core if it's good housing design practice and certain policy have no more than 8 euro core and that food banks Tregarrick bond of corridors and you think things like heat loss and is the poorer for the environment in terms of work ethic condition and so on so you can do that that Crick secondary problems that we've written return to form of housing design OK so I'm sorry that's Chair I just want to submit details of its one nail this down so OK so I hear you Michael so and practicals that brings other issues if we open up the cause so really the answer to what we're after look at any Blyth is to make it to people
that that's what that that's what you're after a fair work I mean the the layer of law class before before members but if there were them any development the matter where it was a fair with say 20 units per floor showing one left we would set up an acceptable in design terms regardless of the tenure if if if it is able if if it is possible through an and that this is an issue of management rather than physical design if it if it's possible to Pepperpot the units
of different tenures then the the split into two cause doesn't really matter saga is that you know if if you're a small child living one of these flats and your friend is in a flat in the other core yes you are to go down in the lift enough in the other lift but equally if your friend is in the same core you owe you so so if if we do a cheaper potting through this but I think but what were advised is this is this is the best our best option we we are still being asked I think to exercise some Trust for we've got a work with this developer on this site for many years to come but corresponding me they go to work with us to
can I make a suggestion Chair so as dropped yes I'm on on this point is there a way in which we can we can be kept up informed of how this goes because can this be brought back to us on this point if if if there's a problem I am I'm not sure it's going to be practical for us to actually have another another decision item I'm sure we can be kept informed by the officer so negotiating this on behalf of the Council but I
we need to take advice on whether it will be a practical to have another decision item on it
can anybody give us that advice preserver the balances yes Chair I'm happy to to come back on that I mean as with section of six clauses they're not a planning application in their own in their own right however I mean with very happy to keep you up today as you rightly say we're in this for the long haul and so we're we're very happy to keep Members up to date as this progresses particularly as this is such an important issue for you
members are now getting regular monthly briefings or from all these strategic sites that either have been or are on the horizon for this committee I'm sure it can be that that aspect of all of the convoys Wharf sites in applications can be kept in kept in that as running item had heard that would that would let us know how those negotiations Gary I'm pretty sure we don't all want the full details of all of them because they are very full indeed but I'm sure if officers are happy to answer questions on them as well
right I saw other indications for I think Councillor Curran you had some questions for officers or comments he wanted to add at this stage and I think Councillor galah you did to so Councillor Karen first bicker my Christian relates to her the Lennox project riches TA obviously tied in with this
they've told me that last week the applicant's representatives were saying that there are waiting for the Linux to come forward with their business Plan A and they tell me that they have to wait until the secretary of State decides whether took set Mayor Khan's recommendation that the protection remains I think they're referring to the protection of the Wharfe but I'm not sure so they can't go forward unless they know that that happens because then a project is largely unviable so could why they offices elucidate please for elections that be very helpful
is it can answer that one I'm happy to give it a guy and yes I think on on that issue
I mean obviously it's not directly related to this specific plot that we're considering and we're considering tonight the Lennox as a project was secured to a level within the original outline application with a process for them to go through and with that business plan now I can appreciate that the Lennox will want some certainty around the future status of the Wharf as that has been considered the most feasible location for the Lennox on the site in terms of the 1 0 6 there is nothing precluding the moving forward now but I can understand why they would want that assurance and around the future status of the Wharfe I think that's probably the best I can give you at this but I'd be very happy to take that conversation offline as it doesn't directly relate to this this pun enough been reckless more conversation for those of us from this Council can have with the current Mayor of London because it's is the current Mayor of London's policies about protection of those working the working Thames that are actually holding that and I'm sure it can be resolved our yawns cut them back Liam Usan thank you I thank God for planning for that responses were helpful and I would just ask the Cownwy corporately ask the secretary of State to get a move on is that his the that permitted or can we find that when his
or he or she is going to make a decision I mean that's the thing that the director planning as point of that which we know is we need to certainly I do appreciate that this is a direct part of this meeting about it was as part of the same meeting held last weekend it was then that the African her save these waiting for business plan from the Linux thank you it would ease the site technically is the same meeting the secretary of State and none of his representatives of grace us with their presence to light so I don't think were in a position to know the answer to that finally but Sir as as lots of us of saved its along process that's that's definitely a pottery and I'm sure several of us are have expressed public support for Linux project I know you have Les and I know I have I don't think that Sir declarable interest the
changes our position on hearing this application that some the and it's something we need to keep making representations the Mayor of London amount at Councillor Gallaher I think you had been allocated that you had a point to raise with officers it was about one of the other ones are as ages ago now I am I'm I'm very sorry and I suddenly again it's been a long process but I had not been doing all the talking right are we are always a position to move forward on this it's just gone 10 o'clock we when in dangerously suspend Standing orders yet not to our pasta skate have questioned sorry Councillor Bell you've got a question for officers
yes so we hear a lot when schemes are approved and you've got a building in this commercial space underneath and part of what were reassured about his our when it comes to a change of use to residential from commercial that everything has been tried we have evidence that they'd marketed it here there and everywhere what does this addition to section 1 0 6 agreement give us that isn't a marketing brochure these
I'm not sure this is about a chair at the applicant's coming back to us and saying we we can't market this as commercial we need to change it to residential is it then a while saying is so we have these assurances given to us all the time and when we hear mapping committee when I used to have a bank attendance on A B or C now but when something was granted planning permission that had commercial units under if and then come back for a change of use are not talking about this as an example more of a metaphor to the condition than lawyer has presented around the pepper potting so how does the condition of the sexual when I 6 agreement that's added to it for the pepper potting how different is that until marketing brochure for a change of use from commercial to residential in terms of the activity that's involved to give us reassurances I think is substantially different but we we should ask Charles our legal adviser to
advise you on that
Charles
sorry just just loading up the Cameron the microphone again and OK I mean what is a what reasonable endeavours ours is a matter of judgement for you and the constant for officers to make I'm I honestly and the I can't say what what they wouldn't wouldn't look like but I think it if the concern is is that an it was simply be a marketing brochure presented the view may be taken me rightly be taken that that is not all Risman dabblers that more would have to be done and that's
so
I I think the specifics of one may or may not be required will have been thrashed out between the parties but fundamentally in my view it seems that more would have to be done the mere marketing to meet the all reason endeavours requirement and if if that sort of addresses the point
sufficiently
I I think I think you've confirmed there is a significant difference between I know exactly the sort of cases that Councillor bells talking about I go I I think this is more secure than than those Emma you've said you can add something to that you're I can add something very specific to this from my memories of being the case officer originally and I think sharing some of the concerns that Councillor Bell has raised so this is a section 1 of 6 agreement where we have defined what reasonable endeavours means for the avoidance of for the avoidance of doubt because otherwise it is and latter of you know case law and how far someone who's has gone so in in this the owner is under an obligation to use reasonable endeavours to achieve a stated outcome than within 10 days of us writing to them they have to set out what steps they have undertaken in order to try to
to try to reach that so we can require written evidence as defined under the Section 1 0 6 for them to have to prove that they've used reasonable endeavours to meet their obligation so I think it is something that we could never guarantee and I think that at this stage with this scheme having an outline permission there are difficulties in what we can say yes that we can definitely capture because there isn't a policy requirement that you have to provide pepper potting otherwise this scheme is unacceptable I think this is probably as far as as we can think that we could take it
and the fact that we do have that definition defined overtop would give us some more teeth to say now has someone really tried and for them to provide the evidence of how they really tried as a legal requirement under that 1 0 6 OK well I personally I think it's as good a significant improvement on where we started at the beginning of tonight's meeting
or the beginning of the meeting on the 9th June and I as as I said earlier I think we're gonna have to exercise a degree of trust in in the developer will have to work with them on all sorts of things including site-wide projects like the Lennox and the cultural Strategy and and yet they can add to work with us to so it's not just one way
OK I can't see anybody else indicating westerns would anybody be fair to make a proposal at this stage
does anybody want to make any other are points that I think are relevant to the decision we're trying to reach
R O or Kassabova sorry I missed I missed you in the Chair
thank you Chair just wondering if anybody else of the other points
you could as you are next Committee would have heard I was I and others were very concerned about making this as tenure blind as possible and that and I'm I'm pleased are officers are now minded to put this into a Section 1 0 6 agreement and on that basis and you know I'm be happy to support that not least because this is a it was where more than half the units are going to be a London affordable rent so on that basis I would propose that we accept the recommendations with that section 1 0 6 agreement amendment amendment there
OK Councillor them but they were you you put your hand up in the other hand up thing
but the backstory so
about your Mike still muted
I I sit on Councillor been aware OK you secondly that our let Councillor Clarke coming which she said she's got a a question so so you in the Katz's enter thank you John just very briefly and there had been a mention of and and and the developer said they were willing to the year the roofs issue the photovoltaic panels and there was also one other thing the parking for commercial units as well and they said they would be willing to look at that is there any way we could add that in as being something that would be appropriate as well to be considered in this application I think again I belt to the advice will get from officers on Rafa and but and I think we could certainly add an informative if Members are minded to if the Member who who beg pursued moved and seconded that proposal are happy to absorbed into it a slight amendment that we add an informative on the OS issues because I don't think we have any when forcing the developer to change aspects of design at this stage
I can see that embodying so I'll take that as agreement and I hope officers of noted that as a suggestion for an informative and can put the right wording around dates her because they heard us discuss our intentions earlier in the meeting and they just confirmed that they they can so we got a proposal on the table I am could ask us to attempt her a vote on that proposal now that we agree the recommendations subject to the addition of the section 1 0 6 cause that we discussed which commits the developer to the extent we've discussed two attempting to pepper pot the
different tenures of housing developments in in the wider than beats our our policies on that and also the added informatives that have been suggested by Councillor Clarke so I'm below asked us to go through a recorded vote on that now please and are going to ask the Clerk to cool our names in alphabetical order
and I ask you to respond by turning on your Mike saying whether you vote for against for your abstaining from that proposal or exceptionally if you need to recuse yourself from the vote because you don't think the you've seen and heard all of the proceedings for some technical reason I not aware that that's happened to anybody then you need to tell us that at that stage as well OK so Claudette can you conductor recorded vote please on that proposal OK are Councillor Bell for
councillor Furnell via for
that's the clock full
Councillor current for
Councillor Gallagher for
Councillor Gibbons for
Councillor attended one form
Councillor pursuit I voting for
Councillor Walsh
Paul
the vote is unanimous
OK thank you very much everybody we've all of provisos in discussed in the last two Nicole Trowers planning permission is granted for Plot 15 convoys Wharf see all again at the next for mixed of these geeks thank you very much for your participation thank you if you're still listening by any means to all of the external participants who have contributed to this and thank you particular to all of our officers who've done such sterling work to keep this going to avoid any technical hitches and to conduct very proper meeting online thank you good night or peace