Licensing Supplementary Committee - Tuesday, 11th August 2020 at 7:30pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Licensing Supplementary Committee
Tuesday, 11th August 2020 at 7:30pm 









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1 Minutes
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2 Declarations of Interest
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3 Boroughwide Licensing Fee proposals to introduce new licensing schemes
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  1. Webcast Finished

supplementary Committee my name is Councillor Evison Ruskin and Chair of this Committee
please could you all to switch your microphones to mute to make that to ensure that we are not disturbed by background noise and Turner both as to silent
if a member of the Committee loose internet connection or power can they please inform the Chair immediately so that we can adjourn the meeting until the connection has been restored I have received apologies for absence from Councillors Elliott or Yanko and Howard I will now read out the names of the members of the sub-licensing supplementary Committee here this evening please could you confirm that you are present at this meeting Councillor Powell
Councillor Campbell presence Councillor wise present Chair OK thank you very much Dean I see to ask you a 90 question because it's my computer's about press the snooze thing as though it's done sorry I apologise for that and I add a message it's because shut my computer right down I think it should be OK now so so this slicing supplementary Committee welcomed everybody in this very very hot day has grown coping OK in in the weather

1 Minutes

either laughing here or or just about getting on with it so the first thing I want to do is read out the office at the members of the officers but there's not the names of the officers who were present at this meeting we have patriot a man whose our lawyer Fenella Beckman who the Director of Housing Sabu's summer onthe sorry summer Rapness I'm sorry about that Housing Services Shawn Longley Strategic Housing next Stadler the private sector housing agency manager so before we go into the item on the agenda I just want to get you to agree to that minutes at the licensing supplement metric committing of out on the 22nd of July it was to the business and Planning Act the pavement licences can we agree those minutes

2 Declarations of Interest

a great just put your hands up I know like very much that's great so does anybody have any declarations of interest in this item so it's the borough wide licensing fee proposals to injury introduce new licensing schemes as a housing related
I kind of Surrey Strategic not just prayerfully and evil narrow in my title on the and again your notes OK if you are Le Asenjo year a message with the correct title
OK that's all right then all right thank you Nick St George's Reigate correct title just read it out yourself and Licensing and Housing and add lighting housing enforcement manager OK so that's that's cleared up for the and of the webcast thank you to send an e-mail to to clear Weezer actually let her know that thank you very much right so Sean only once to ask a question you put your hand up as that right Year R I'm sorry Charité again are you introduce me as being from Strategic Housing on in fact from private sector housing OK OK sure that cleared up sorry I was reading from the notes that I was given so I apologise that so much of its alright then thank you very much for that anybody else need to clarify anything else
OK alright certainly counts of keep their video on that'd be great thank you very much
so if there were no declarations of interest and I'm now going to hand over to

3 Boroughwide Licensing Fee proposals to introduce new licensing schemes

2 An Sabu Samantha to from Housing Services to present the report
Sabu you then your thoughts on here yes and darting fennel introduction for it to to the OK so a solitary instructing first Fenella yeah yeah OK actually realised that sorry I didn't have an urgent thing to OK so we're really pleased to be here today which is like five months late to put their this report before you word you to come around the 19th of March and any all kind of way to the Tibet pear shaped so the report sets out the fees and charges that we are proposing for the additional licensing scheme and a selective licensing schemes so the Mayor and Cabinet agreed the additional licensing scheme at their meeting on 11th March but we've had to burn hold back on the implementation of that scheme due to the Kobe pandemic though we've also have to pause our application to the secretary of State for the selective scheme which we were hoping to earn little held in this autumn but that we're now looking to submit next year so this report really therefore seeks EU approval for the fees that we will charge when we are able to to kind of to to restart the work that we're doing Civica despair that in mind it's it's going to setting up ready for when we will when were able to charge so Sabu will take you through the key elements of the report and then we also have Vic and Sean here with you with us in case you have any sort of questions around specifics around the scheme replacing her council carry much Fenella and Hugh
I'd like to move to them are do do very shall Soumya into two schemes are there is the additional scheme which covers around which would bring the scope around 6 thousand properties and these are primary focused on flats and houses that are rented by two or more unrelated people and are from two or more households the selective scheme will cover other properties which are a single household and or other basic in one Tennessee and that will bring an additional 26 thousand properties in scope that takes us from a current of Arthur's 900 parties to whether you 2 thousand properties more white
we had to seek approval for 2 of the report to early recommended fee structure for schemes the first one is for the new béchamel her the first ones the neutral fee structure with a new Henshall sorry yeah yeah the HMO HMO fees structure the we asked the Committee to approve a fee of far 500 pounds or lettable unit which is the the unit of emerging each Housman are decisions to be made available to charities to create land was and fully landlords with of land with more than one property and also for very large animals out of the fees paid in two parts part one for processing application at 2 50 pounds per that were unit and the remainder will form part to the fees and doesn't include the discounts that we apply
therefore for the applications the second scheme relates to information for the selected Sky which we need you are putting the application to the secretary State these are for our we also committee to approve a fee of 6 40 per
or unit
again here the same types of discounts available would be providing discussed charities accrued landlords and before the lander's again our as for legal requirement can stir split into two parts part one for processing application which will be at 100 60 pounds for a unit and part two for administration of licence which will operas include any disconcerting for white for the tell application would set a fees are designed to recover the costs of running there is respect to schemes on their own
so we should have to rely on anything else and the scheme will enable us to ensure that all private residence private sector rented sector residents are doing good quality homes that are safe and secure of free from hazards and and other forms of exploitation the scheme is designed to work with Llangorse that we provide also plunders the to bring her to deliver decent homes
I will pause here
I suffer the team were available for any questions that you may have regarding this thank you very much like it and before I take questions from other casket ask a question so in terms of HMOs the actual is that that are are are able to be licensed or those of over 6 units yes so any HMO has six units or this is not lot are subject to the Licensing but
there were no exceptions that so the 16 64 for
our mandatory licences well-deserved costing anything PAF sorry 6 in a bowl
author John
Sean do you want to take the question so so you raise your hand
yes it's 5 and above the mandatory scheme not six in above and we'll have an additional scheme which Gilles at been in place at present the deals with properties above commercial premises where it three residents living in two or more households OK then thank you
I can't use them and I can see that you Caroline Hollies job during the meeting I I can't help that at the moment then what help Caroline Councillor Carlo
it's a controlled pull Harambe undisclosed into another link now OK I case I did any member of an M 70 questions to ask
so in that case I think we just couldn't let that we we just gonna be the accepted the recommendations and agree the fees
is it Petrus that were I am at the moment sorry I'm too seems to sorry yes Judea sorry I I listened to what you said but it was so I thought you look Puss in and then going to do the rest of the report so I just had a couple of questions when I was reading through it I can part of it with on 5 point 9
if the report and he talks about lettable units and then he talked about each bedroom so I don't know the difference between electoral unit and each bedroom because I was looking at the comparison that you did with other boroughs' and they said bedrooms and then we suddenly start according things units such as one to check it
bedrooms are units
maybe required once this yet shall not somebody else yes
is it a notable unit is I am is a unit which could be let to a year to a single a single family and so that isn't necessarily of single room that single bedroom because there may be a rooms of the property that aren't at that don't meet the minimum size as standards therefore you could potentially happen to rooms and although it doesn't adverse Crystal shown facilities I'm so lettable unit and is one it be one Hennessy basically for a year for family
OK so why do the other castles Cawthorne rooms I was just looking at that comparison and our language seem to be different from theirs that's what it was because each each Council makes there makes the permissions themselves at a date determined the year fees themselves and what we determined in actually and hit you Can't always define it as a single
a single bedroom I have because sometimes the say there may be two rooms and it doesn't quite for the to suit description whereas a lettable unit is a single tenure Everest for family and to add to inhabit but can only be let as a single tenure not turn not to separate and not to separate rooms
I am happy for that junior or he wants more clarification Addo are you saying that it is the whole property then
I don't know that that the short story is if the size as they need us and lend and get a minimum there's a minimum size stand or fall room air for a 4 bedroom and 4 a year for someone to let a bedroom in an HMO and he felt it today we have this form bears five bedroom in an HMO and we determine that one or both bedrooms is too small that might be or might be length alongside another bedroom which is big enough as a left the single lettable unit but it's actually
OK thank you and then the other 1 6 point 7 8 was taught except 640 pounds per property before a applying discounts and then I was trying to find the document what the discounts were
so the discounts are fatalities are 50 50 percent and for agreeing to landlords we have 80 percent discount
we do have a discovery estimate depending on whether they are of a full year loss so they may have come about multiple properties and if he endeavouring to do all the the processing together a same time then be offered them a bigger discount because then we can do do it as a as we like a wide long service for them and that helps us manage that easier
thank you
Sean do you any other way you had your hand up did you have something you must add to that now not all I'd I thought we'd lost neck from the transmission I wrecked hours Heffron to to take the battle I think the IT is one not working very well this evening that all I'm not quite sure what is causing it but it's not quite as it's going quite as well as it has done in the past I would that's what I will say so so so offer consuming don't have any questions so can we just agree the Committee agreed these phase incur the recommendation as at the right I might put their mind benefits made seven years high recommendation on page 7 of the report paragraph 1 Chair I have put some stuff in a chat line
get your facts now Councillor wise Surrey gets you did know I am there's nothing in the chatline all I can see if I've been linked back in in that case my out question place it came forecast the recommendations please
as someone who has been working very hard to improve housing in Lewisham many years I lobbied long and how to improve our HMO scheme and additional one is quite thank you
well done to all the officers on the hard work on that can you also sell me
where we are with the perspective the proposed selective Licensing scheme are in the past we have delayed putting it forward because we felt I'm notion might not be successful and would you think our chances are this time please
so he wants to answer that question
often referred once Anello you control the yeah I will I will answer the OK these yes I'm so we are absolutely committed to to submitting an application to the sexual state of for the selective licensing scheme is something that we believe an is is what we want for Borough so and but what we also know is that the time either this this this period this this timings isn't it and right now with Covey going on and the recovery and a focus on the recovery we know that this is probably not the right time in terms of the Maidan the mood music can in central government and it doesn't it's not the right time for us in the Borough bottle system the right time and sensually the government achieve the reason where we paused it was actually and their guide and so we already know that they've told us they're not really get suggesting that boroughs don't put them looking areas don't put forward something
so we've we've paused but we've pose but I repeat what I can say is that the determination of an application is done purely on the Leon on the Act among the legal basis of the application so my understanding is that some unless we put forward a case that is solid and a makes for with makes the argument convincingly the secretary of State in fury has to agree the difficulty that we'll have is that was that is the understanding the secretary of State's decision is we assess the sector tapers and have to explain why his return some further so hence rear we all have to believe that if he turned something down he actually had a really good reason even though we don't know so that's why Liverpool and some of the other boroughs that were turned out while a real pick when a were really angry on their own in the see earlier on this year because they felt they felt aggrieved that the staples and Edin tell them where they fell short so I'm so I can't say I can't answer the question as to whether are successful will be other than to say that we believed that the timing is not right on the words of submit something now it would probably look a little be odd right now we are focused on trying to support our residents who are struggling with the impact of the economic downturn we know that arm for little rest and soon who are living in private rented accommodation and introducing a selective licensing scheme now is invariably going to be an impact on their rents and that's that's not something we want we also want to talk to landlords about keeping our residents who are struggling or who will be struggling when the moratorium on evictions is lifted when will wanting to talk to them about keeping our residence and working with business hope are struggling to pay their rents so I think a quid for poor crook or as it were is if we're gonna talk to them about this we also want to kind of local bit understanding on on on that but the but ultimately come next year and certainly going into and then the next UN financial year we are we believe that a selective licensing scheme particularly in some parts of the borough is what we really really be there are other options as well
it may be that we don't offer full butler scheme it may be that we go for 20 percent skin and and therefore of before Kusal two wards of the Borough for the cementing Inoqo full borrower so there are options that we could talk to yourselves and housing select and and the Mayor and Cabinet about but right now
is not the time so hopefully Councillor ways that kind of sets out where we we are in terms of that was for the selective but we are you doing IQ Fenella and I have no doubt of the commitment of officers to any progress and good thing in housing I was to Kimber a previous delay of a couple of years ago and I know it's come in next year but thank you for explaining it to all of us
why concern really is that some
there's never a good time to present anything to this government so unjust hoping that next year we are successful and can or cannot just remind you that the wards will be changing so any any Ward that you define as the ones in the selected area will have to conform to the new boundaries opening replace take that into account this course of Sankyo I think thank you very much Fenella thank you says into that so coming come in and move onto the recommendations have we have approved the proposed licensing additional licensing scheme fee for HMOs as outlined in paragraph 5
and the section in paragraph section licensing fees for HMOs and the proposed selective Licensing scheme approve the proposed selective Licensing scheme fee as part of the application to the secretary of State as outlined in paragraph 6
I'm sorry I think we're seeing worth of it's not very well written this thing so I think we're really only considering paragraph 1 point 1 is that right another so yeah I think that it's right White White was 7 the places I'm rooting out I think that I didn't agree meeting that so OK so we're just going to paragraph 1 2 1 point 1 Section 2 1 point 1 approved the proposed additional licensing scheme faith HMOs HMO fees as outlined in paragraph 5
yes certainly grit can we agree that as councillors have just put your hands up ordered that's great that's thank you very much thank you very much everybody so not this now concludes the last thing supplementary committee and there was a meeting scheduled for the end of OK August but successes successfully managed to push that back so we don't have any further meetings in August so the next meeting will be in September clergyman do you have that with you at the moment or not
no return seconds yet in September it is the
OK that's the 22nd September will be the next meetings that's quite some time away from today so that may well be or a meeting beforehand because you know how things go in licensing so the or with meetings popping up just when you least expect them to so thank you very much of Fenella due to say something yes I was going to chair sorry just a real quickie
there was there was we were asking for you to agree the scheme at the fees for the additional as well as the proposed selective did you agreed a bottle I just want and has only to one yes that was the so and recommendations to these two players seeking the second one well familiar seeking suffered one as well so that we could go out or Nahuel yet like to have been misunderstood hospital his understanding that this was OK so can we agree then infection to the recommendations 1 point to the
the proposed selective Licensing scheme approved the proposed selective Licensing scheme the and classes on sorry about that took them off the thought finished
machismo to reach out a previous proposed additional licensing scheme approve the proposed selective Licensing scheme fee as part of the application to the Secret secretary of State as outlined in paragraph 6 can we agree this agreed agreed everyone yet aggregate agreed a kite thank you very much everybody so now moreover now thank you very much and have a lovely summer everyone thank you though the weather if you if you if it's your now
I am drowning in our work to be honest so well it's not much fun here either
let us fight run thanks everybody of