Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel - Tuesday, 18th August 2020 at 7:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel
Tuesday, 18th August 2020 at 7:00pm 









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1 Declarations of Interests
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2 Minutes
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3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response - Update Report
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4 Key Decision Plan
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  1. Webcast Finished

tonight to the business model of Lewisham council I we've got councillors in officers here I'm going to briefly go through the agenda for anyone there webcasting or just joining us now if I can just sit started the meeting if air unless you are a member of the business panel or you are speaking if you can keep your camera switched off so at this point alone EB business panel members with Sire camera on and again for those joining us if you want to take part in the meeting raised the electronic kind or put a message in the chat area tonight we will after am declarations of interest in minutes we will be hearing from the chief executive Kim right can cheer next if director for housing and whispered but bright Head of Highways what he had to address any questions on the Constance COVID-19 response update report we want so harder hybrid meeting report which would take separately
I it straight after the man report we will then be looking at the key decision plant which is sets out the key decisions that the Council will be taking over the coming months and gives the opportunity for councillors and members of the public and one as looking in true as questions and felt that further information on those of coming decisions without unfortunately will be excluding present public it's then
the point before we take decisions from the moment couplet which is on awarding a leisure centre contract and we will also be taken a decision made by the executive director for each already for housing on the abandoned vehicles contract loans to them and fortunately on legal advice for commercial sensitivity we'll be taking taken in private so I hope that's explained to one or what would be done tonight

1 Declarations of Interests

the first item is declarations of interest to any members of the business Panel have any declaration of interest to make a second floor Millbank John please
you to John
thank you Chair just to say once again on a member of the visual collaborative who chairs König them involved with the 20 apertures referred so in the first report item 3 thank you thanks John I also see Councillor Davies can I just say when you're using your hands of colleagues fan immediately take down the hand there once their questions been taken hours forget to deal with that air Councillor Dave his case thank you on the same point as previously declared
I am a council appointee to voluntary services and social

2 Minutes

thank you selfie if their normal declarations VentureCo the next item which is the minutes of the last business Panel do any colleagues have any point shoul questions with regards to minute or collies happy to accept the minutes as a true record of the previous business panel

3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response - Update Report

great OK thank you if you just take your hand down please Sophie that that me great thank him so that's a great privilege thank you colleagues become to the me first me nature of the evening which is Item 3 scrutiny of the concerns courted 19 response update report as have out we would ask care came Kevin or Luis if they wish to talk to the report first that received
we will have any indication I notice to a Very Short introduction please Councillor Brown over to you thanks Kim thank you very much and so against ever short introduction to say this is the fourth report that we've prepared to hit the business Panel no view of our response who polled 19 it follows the usual format of providing an overview of critical services we've also woven into the report of responses to this the issues at been raised by there is members over the last few days as well
I'll just would like to draw attention to members on the recommendation the second recommendation where we're
asking you to give give a steer as to how you like to receive these update going forward given that September held for the start of the resumption of her other scrutiny meetings are coming into being
but I won't take up any more of your time possessed there's usually an opportunity for Notts very useful questions that to I'm sure between off at present will be able to answer for you thank you
the trouble to accommodate I've got your hands Yami Leduc and take it down
assistant Fernando sorry John but before coal yer average got a couple of comments that so if that's all right if you could only one second and the two areas that I just want to raise is the recommendations actually which is on page 2 of the report for colleagues
when we talk about going back to Select Committees as business as usual etc. there has been consultation former consultation between members of business Panel and non-executive councillors and what we wish to do is yes we want to go back to the normal way of doing things for scrutiny committees to take place etc. we also don't want to lose any positive things that we've that we've decided works good works well for us in the temporally system the to areas had been highlighted to me all the expletive explanatory notes on the key decision plan that councillors are found that very useful and obviously that can go that's administered of come Friday to sat way grateful and I for that to continue and the other area is the this report the corvids Bank team report a Councillors' face very useful that things areas are brought together in one report and the board so business panel members like the opportunity to have this engagement and to see the report and for questions in an advanced etc that that mechanism is there I'm not looking for a detailed decision obviously to tonight's meeting but it's important to pass the feedback on of trying to keep the positive areas that we've discovered work there as well as going back to the normal procedure for the college make us some to say about that and I just add one other area in their Nateby my bit
An electrical is getting his pitch pitch 16 sorry page 15 of the report I believe of application was employed six but it's fares true transition 5 point to one where after to conclude a we're in phase 2 of transition to assess the in particle with 19 etc etc. and I'm just wondering when we would be looking for the results when could be looking for the result of some of the assessment when give us a kind of timescale basically have for in Phase 2 already when we could be getting some their output from from our deliberations I will end there I say Councillor will do and I'll tell you a higher catching John that if we can of the answers constable to please
Mama questions to the fare firstly dummy man growth of the campaigns that the informal missions of numbers of helpfully let chromatic sort make well in advance of his meeting which may we do get and comprehensive and thorough store answered however are own 5 point 2 8 of the report when I'm looking at the metrics as wondering whether there's any evidence or capacity to to gather data about blood groups because I'm reliably informed by sources that some those having glutted over whether our racist positive or negative have a 20 percent less chance of catching COVID-19 as wanting a for this can be answered fully to consult the Director of public Health role for tested and public Health England I've done over two officers fees
thank you very much I'll just to respond on those when I well I can thank you for the feedback on these reports always good to as you say take forward the positives out of this sum and lead members had found these useful informative so will will work with you over the coming weeks to ensure that where we're doing something that still provides that insight but also recognises the fact that the other scrutiny meetings are going to be up and running as well so we'll we'll work with you to it to shape something that that works for us all and your question around the Phase 2 and at the lesson learnt we we did in the meeting before last I think it was provide some insight updates on the lessons that we had learned so far
and a and provided some high level feedback from members in future reports we will keep on reporting on where where developing further lessons and how we're developing the a preparedness for any future waves as well so we will certainly bear that in mind for what goes into future reports and Councillor Mark do in your question on blood groups I must confess I have I have seen data until it comes out my ears over the last few months I have never seen anything that refers to blood group so as you say let me go back and ask colleagues who are much better placed an eye on that level of detail and see if that is information that does exist or not her it might do and I've just might not seen it so bear with me on that one please and I'll come back to you
are there any other colleagues again not just business Carter part of Members as we know the colleagues here which Tuscany questions eyes say firstly if colleagues will bear with me Councillor Councillor Jenkins trying to had met get it admitted to the Nabil admitted to the meeting first and then we have Councillor Millbank and Councillor sober willing to them in that order please join in look
thank you Chair a couple of questions and only unpaid height on the Sheldon 6 point 7 it sorts about the community half going forward I just want to give a bit with motion on this it says it will continue if been will be it's to been directly funded by the Council to 31st walkers
but it will continue to be on his points supported by existing resources if we have looked clarity what's actually meant by that and could I ask now appreciate you might not necessarily have all the answers to this and tonight that parts of this meeting and and 6 point 6 point 5 2 on page 14 when we're talking about the psychological emotional support for students
with providing a reminder of the to provide as a mental health services for children young people in our barrage I just wanted to ask this great you got serves but what's the act can't access time away to get an in to get an interview with them and what is the size of their way to list but let's not miss expects that level of detail tonight thank you
look would like that your question
all three questions perhaps the past me back to the her Kim's answer to join first chaired and after that officers plate
OK thank you Councillor Blair Brown on both of your questions Councillor but Millbank how I'll come back to you with the but in response on the the details of both of those that's OK
thanks him so he has three long question from Councillor Battle look over it
thank you Chair
I'm the environment to lead in the Telegraph Hill ward and have been involved in the pursuing some traffic reduction measures for five years now so we managed to get the the Mayor of London the cycling and walking commissioner will Norman down to the ward and we managed to get a healthy Neighbourhood scheme a commitment to it from tier fell Sally that was cancelled due to the financial problems that the pandemic raised so one of my constituents come to me with questions about traffic and roads so I just wanted to put three of those questions to you
in relation to paragraph 6 point 6 4
at the first question came is the temporary traffic orders are and yet typically they last for however long or roadworks last but this is a very different situation some are constituents or asking when these temporary orders are likely to expire and the the public consultation start with a view to informing our decision as to whether we want to make them permanent or discontinue them so that's the first question
the second is around the emergency services the College of paramedics as we can express concern that to the Government's Green Road revolution at might not take into consideration the potential for increasing response times from emergency vehicles for of that made me think of our our situation lotion can you let us know what consultation took place with the three emergency services before we are implemented our measures
I am the third question from constituents is an item of snow social media and also the professional major that there is a claim being made that somehow measures rather than reducing traffic or displacing it from one set of streets to another and as even that rather alarming suggestion being made that in one part of our power of there being displaced in the more affluent streets to the to the more deprived streets so I was wondering if he could comment on that and also let us know what processes we have in place to measure the effect are of these measures and do we have for officers doing manual counting with we have an automatic so the car counting system in place for some form of them of air quality measure so that we can Nearne we can allay those fears with inner with some kind of inner evidence and data so those three questions chest
thanks to that that if you wanted to get those before got the next colleagues place said
I'll I'll call him Kevin Jane and Louise McBride to answer that the details of those plays' over to Kevin in Luis hi chirp July August deal with some of the more strategic issues first and ask the ways come in on the details yes Councillor Sauber's right these temporary measures that they are temporary they don't require Tier HMOs as the normal measures will take I haven't got the date for expired but the ways will give you that in a minute probably but the intention is to assess these temporary measures see how their working measure the impact in the local area and the impact in terms of any issues such as displacement and things like that and then come back and think about what permanent measures we might put in place over the longer term with some evidence to base our decisions on
the second question for emergency services we've certainly consulted the emergency services about all of the measures we put in place so far and they've been fully involved throughout I think it's probably reasonable to say that any time you move traffic around from one set of roads to the roads then there is always a potential for an impact on on any of those services but there have been fully consulted Taroudant again Louise will give you some detail around that
the third a point that cancer sober was making was in relation to displacement as opposed to reduction and I think you when we think about these are schemes and any traffic reductions scheme which attempts to move us all as society from one mode of transport to more climate friendly mode of transport then there is going to be initially some level of displacement we hope that some of that will eventually lead to reduction but it's it's inevitable that the initial phase will involve displacement until people get used to the changes and start to think about the modes of transport so one of the things that were going to be measuring as we go forward is is what's what's happening in relation to displacement and actually what what's happening in relation to reduction so we will need to measure the the volumes and in terms of the impact on different communities I think the desired impact is to try and reduce traffic overall try and create safer environments for walking and cycling and try and improve both are air quality in the Burj route on them and indeed improve improve the general public realm for all of us
so I I mean the certainly no design in our intent to move traffic from one place to another the designers to try and move it in the main onto the main onto the bigger route of the and the more main roads and over time reduce the mass of cars on the on the highway in in general so it there's no does there's no intent and no designed to obviously moved traffic from as you say cancer sober has been reported in some parts of Sri from from 1 1 area to another that's not the design of its that it the if the design is anything it's the new onto the main highways and the Moss the bigger roads so Chair Alaska Luis come in and some more the details of the data things of that that's OK
thank you say just following up on the points that Kevin made them the temporary traffic orders Cam in place for up to 18 months but it's not our intention that they will be in place for that period of time and see will need to take a review point as to when we take that decision as to whether we want to move it to an experimental traffic order to then inform whether they become and permanent or not and of these schemes need time to bed in and we will also need to do that monitoring that Kevin mentioned to inform that decision I am fully aware that we need to get some more information about the time scales and what the bunching of those measures looks like we are starting to do that and pull it together in a in a a package of motion which we can share with members and we just count curry discussing that with the Cabinet Member on the emergency services points as Kevin says they have very much been consulted and involved in the processes we've got long so each of the designs for the measures are shared with the emergency services and they get the opportunity to provide comment and shape those we've also had discussions with a meeting specifically with the London service and also the Met police was involved in that discussion and we've had separate discussions with the Fire Brigade as well so they are fully engaged and addition to the than discussions that we're having at a local level there are discussions happening at a London wide limit level as well so there's been an emergency services some it with tier foul and some boroughs because of see we are not alone in terms of delivering these measures in the end it is steps that other authorities are taken across London and the KCAAP the issues are common we are working with those emergency services to monitor the impact on their emergency response times so that will feed into parts divide assessment of the measures as well
on the data and the assessment so we will be monitoring both traffic counts and air-quality so we have some historic data but that we've had as part of our normal and processes as part of scheme development and we've done some specific counts in July of this year as well and in response to the measures that have been put in an emergency by basis and will be seeking to take more counts in September which will then inform that the next steps once we've had an opportunity to analyse that information on the air quality we've got some specific equality monitoring stations around the Lewisham Leagreen area so that's three that are impermanent position and we've got information coming from those monitoring stations and will be supplementing that with diffusion tubes and additional monitoring stations around that area and also other locations in the borough so that will form part of the monitoring strategy and informed the next steps as to what what we recommend is next
Louise I have come flirt
Corinne card
Councillor Campbell there could just away from Councillor card that every working OK on your IT comes Likud await would be sufficient if you can hear Russian and everything 0 OK well fingers crossed fingers crossed so can we have Councillor Colin please
thank you Chair I just wanted to ask County Giles' and up does not trust if it's in the report apologies I couldn't find it what's the numbers on number of council staff that are out of action hangs affecting their ability to work because it's the reports of generalises about it but had some issues with a planning and talking about asking for tree protection orders and be told that there hasn't there's not enough staff or resources to do that now and were worried about
I'm ward councillors and Grove Park Road and protection of the Railway children IRP national park that so what's what's this position with planning will we have enough staff that an out of carry out environmental protection thankfully have come to take Pat Councillor cards questions as well please
thank you Chair am firstly I just wanted to say thank you for the response to the advance questions I asked about finance in sections
thank you for six points 74 and 75 and we got an e-mail from Charlotte Dáil today which I just want to draw the attention of other Members to which just clarified what it said in that section a little and just to emphasise the seriousness of the situation with the with them a minimum of fare
shortfall and therefore cuts required of minimum of of 20 million for 21 to 22 actually settle be over 20 million and 40 million over the next three years so I just want people to to think on that and will be coming back to that in September then have any more questions on that but I did I also I went through the whole report
no real interesting as ever
and I tried not to ask a question about traffic but unfortunately I did end up with an it actually is in a way similar to something that looks sad and them and the Weezer started to fill in some of the gaps that I was looking for an answer to it at 6 point 7 floor and I've switching between about three documents now to get back to it but 6 point note 6 point 6 4 we said to the temporary measures were introduced to support residents and will be kept under review during the emergency period so my questions were around that were what's the purpose of the review and how frequently
whose reviewing it who are the reports going to go to what's the process for making changes to observe introduced how long does that take you know those sort of questions really and so any more that that always felt she hasn't said that she can say now on that would be good and maybe it could be expanded in the next report on that thank you
thanks Pat to offset respond to those questions please
Chair could I ask my cause it's around the traffic orders as well but fable shall got Councillor Bernard should cover with another trotting is what are believed to more questions on traffic so if it had not that old
sorry Avenue to the south
it offers us and then it becomes less compelling but not
and I'll just come in quickly on the question around a staffing there was Kevin Carter specifically on planning but overall the current Council sickness levels are very low and long may that continue we have at the moment the actively encouraging staff to take some time off though not least because the been working very hard and were expecting yeah a further waves of pressure over the winter months so generally speaking across the Council sickness levels are holding up very well Kevin John to come in on the specific question around planning well I can't answer the specific around the tickler birth piece of work that Casica named there but what I will say is that we've also still got staff in different sections volunteering for front some frontline work so yes there are that we will identify any was out of action and such other than you would normally expect but people are still doing work which they were doing as part of the normal day-job so we're not yet back to full full you know imagine people and some of that service and planning is one of those that's that's the answer to that I wondered if my answer to the question on how we carry out reviews that Councillor card raised I mean I think part of it is you know your your the earlier point that Councillor Brown's I think we're we're back to go back to a normal scrutiny committees now so I would expect the the evidence that we gathering on our transport work an hour traffic reduction schemes to be part of the sustainable development activities work as we move forward that be the central place were to go back to 2 present evidence and and to think about future policy in and as we move forward so that's that that's I haven't fully thought it through but that's certainly 1 1 Avenue and of course we will go back to the Mayor and Cabinet for any any any significant decisions that arise from these you know initial programme of works will to if we're certainly if I think about making turn to a more permanent we would set to go back to the Mayor and Cabinet and make decisions in the usual way that the Council do
so I'd expect some scrutiny of the evidence and then and the policies of all from that that sets the usual practice thanks Kevin them about every other questions been answered the last two colleagues at and looking silly noting hedge before as could fly Campbell's that a question which will read out one from close up in RGF officers can link that in air coast by Peter's basically saying will correct me from wrong his money raised from caused them violating the new instructions will be done with that without the revenue basically is accurate pewter
I think Peter's frozen got the iPad isolation
to my question for its total Islamism cameras there is cameras on them with on on the new road closures on the the obviously to catch people who flock arose and therefore reassure the public that the council is not enough is not on a mission to make money than we have those are probably refer fighting for the money spent
backspin officers have got that et al take Juliet now up don't say any of the Hansel and on this item of the out the meeting so take that this is the as the last question as well as Peter thank you officers
Juliet sorry OK thank you and I. it's really extended become one of the questions that loot cause aspects very similar questions have been placed to me and again around displacement rather than a reduction of traffic and I know that their temporary but answered the question I really want to find out his let's say that the it displacement remains the same and we don't have a reduction in traffic what can we do or what are you thinking of doing or what are we doing with the public to encourage them to reduce the amount of time that people are driving so rather than just put in all the traffic reduction schemes in place is there anything else that we're doing with the public to try and get them to reduce the amount of times a Dr in they drive because people just see the
reduction schemes in place and just find alternative ways of getting to where they're going unless the something else the incentivise them to drive less that was one and then I think Luis did cover a little bit every about the monitoring stations so it play if there is displacement of traffic into either poor areas or another area creating rat runs are we monitoring the air quality where it shifting who might simply been shifting poor air quality for one place and move into another place so if we see that that if we had additional monitors which I know are not cheap which I know are expensive to run but I'll we add an additional monitors so that we can make sure in a short people that it's just not moving to a one-paced another I hope that made sense thank you
thanks Juliet alpha can I ask officers to address those and Councillor Bernard punched please OK well I'm going to answered the first bit of that at least so the track the cameras are there to deter people doing the wrong thing so with the not money making devices that's not what we're about illusion when we use cameras we used the most you know a deterrent to future you know no encroachment so what happens to the money that's raise I'm hopefully Luis will have the answer to technical answer to that but I if it's like most money that's raised in relation to parking offences them they are traffic offences then it they thought that the money's got to be spent on the public highway that's the general answer and I imagine this as the saying cancer Campbell yes well I think first of all in terms of air quality the ways again we'll we'll say what we're doing in terms of increasing the capacity motion that but yeah our our plan here is don't forget were working as part of London as a whole and it's very important to see the measures that were taking in Lewisham in conjunction with the measures that be taken by tier fell and and and other Colley councils around the city to try and movers from a very very heavily car-oriented global capital where we have massive amounts of commuters coming in every day using our roads from other parts of the south-east and and and beyond
I'm I'm causing air pollution and causing no props so that the that the idea is that collectively together with all the measures that to avail of taken today all the measures that the different Councils of 18 that over time and the all all the measures we take it here is a councillors you know we've had some fairly stringent increases in charge put in relation to part prowess and things like that so you know these measures are designed to reduce the amount of traffic overall throughout the city and will unless we act collectively we won't do it together so it's very very important so in terms of right though we do need to think about incentives and of course it's challenging at the moment because of COVID-19 and that the theme the shift that we've had to account for a from public transport in particular the buses and tubes and the safety measures that tier fell of put place that that that's made what we're doing very difficult but it's but as ever more important to try and get people to think about walking and cycling as an alternative and and and and you know reducing car use but there are there are schemes that we've got to Council we have got bike loan schemes which were promoted and we've got a bike support schemes at their we we've we we've we've got safe safe walking rates we've got we've worked with local schools to look at a different ways that they can bring the children the school true though walking teams and things like that will continue to do many of those more Maleek we need to get that balance right between the carrot and the stick in in this and to really trying to change people's mentality over all to try and get people particularly to those of us who are doing local trips to use User Carless when we go for local trips and to think about walking cycling more so and give right we need to get both by its Carrick stick
I don't know if they want to come here anymore that and data weight to work coward who am suggests following follow a cup of once a Kevin has already outlined I think in terms of the camera locations those those camera enforcements on the locations where we were able to put a physical barrier so they are an emergency services routes or or on bus routes so that's why the camera is in those locations in accordance with the legislation they can't be in placed for revenue raising purposes and that's very clear and there are ring fenced purposes for which that revenue can be used and is apparent out with the parking parking revenue as well so it will be reinvested in to transport initiatives and examples are the maintenance of the highway whether it similar sustainable transport schemes but also things like the Freedom passes well so that all captures and gets outlined where it spent in are annual parking report which I understand gets issued annually and just on the carrot and stick that Kevin was talking about I think we absolutely recognise that it's got to be part and parcel of can of a wider package of measures and make sure that Sir a balance transport programme as Kevin reference we've got the bike loan scheme and we've had recently funding confirmed for cycle training so about giving people the skills to continue that work programme as well which is really positive news because that was in question at earlier on in the year
and I think we recognise that we have to kind of increase the communications around that as well and just kind of making people aware of which are the Safer routes and that they might want to encourage them to use and just think about what journeys they are personally making them and whether they can make a change on the monitoring at the absolutely the air quality is is important to monitor unfortunately as you could understand due to cost restraints constraints we can't cut monitor air quality on every street says making sure we've got cut of representative monitoring data across the board but we can also could take that and uninformed decisions on similar streets that they're experiencing and taking other data of the air quality is a is a complex issue in its that the the evolution doesn't stay in one location it's impacted by things outside of the control of the transport world so so whether episodes hot weather other like but we are working closely with our environmental health officers to understand the data that we've got making sure we got a widespread and can take informed decisions on on what that information attendance so it's going to be absolutely key to to going forward and monitoring the impact of the measures that we put in place
thanks Luis I will draw this item to close the man called report I'll just say that as I speak on behalf of comfort to the business Panel Councillor generally and actually Councillor Hall Common Lane to ask the question I know the emission muted firstly that
I say that it didn't miss any coming onto the next item perhaps thumbs-up or thumbs-down brilliant at Glasphein thank Councillor Hall so as it is going to say to draw this item to a close and we do recognise as the beginning of the report critical services of remained stable am and we know the work air of staff and members of the Council are doing to ensure that happens and we do appreciate that end we say this at every meeting but it's no less than CIA so it's like it so we like to place on the record as well so we will now move on through the hybrid meetings report
scrutiny of the Council's coordinating response supportive of visits will be written by Kevin Finnerty basing before open it up to and he can't tell me which have questions or comments my take on the report as that hybrid meetings can take place are happening and we've got some examples and some authorities already and the central issue is safely as health and safety for all those who may be involved in and help taking portal helping for these due to happen and the KKL risk-assessment so what I would like to see his quick movement on and risk assessments etc. at to see if we can move forward with those comments are there any colleagues who would like to comment on this report if you could indicate in one of the usual ways
we have cut book
we have come to love Millbank and Councillor Cohen in that order please
thank you Chair I just want to make the observation on the on the hyphenated words that's OK just say that I think it be useful to look at researchers coming out of the Local government Association on this because obviously because the my duties chairing elsewhere of Deng acquired work on this and it's really quite interesting the findings about actually hybrid made his do offer a way of involving a wider number of people and to support those obviously with with care needs etc. as well so I just think come we shouldn't be frightened of them I think it's really good that here in Lewisham will appearance them as well but I take your point fully about the Health and Safety Ashes thank you Chair thank John Illingworth recording Councillor current I'd like to say that feedback generally that I received from Councillor as the at Lewisham they all in favour of hybrid meetings it's like were talking about earlier Chhetri bring it forward the best of all worlds in this new situation because the current
thank you noted and I just wanted to make the point that as the rest of our community in general gets back to a much more normal pace of life whether it be in restaurants or pops or businesses supermarkets etc of it's important that the Council does to and whichever way we decide to do I think it's really importing there seem to be
a restoring our our meetings and I do I'm not quite sure what the difficulty is because now that some committee's only have six members of us all sitting among big room and ruby much further apart than when we do go to buy our milk and paper in the morning so I don't understand
when and what is the great difficulty with the a meeting just 6 committee members plus one or two officers thank you that's layer he for Ascot as any College Farm offered as a and this
difficulties can now what Palin to tackle digital is taking and ask the question on yes care flat or equity or held question thank you and I just want to remind members and officers of course to parliament her is a hybrid meeting at the moment and they managed to work their way around it and then as many people if props work there although near there now and hardly the seen as the first adopters ever if ever different ways of working so I think that we can we've also got a bespoke council chamber and that the I'm sure that we can have a full council meeting with members participating in a hybrid at meeting there should be enough space her within a bespoke House chamber and to arrange that any detail geared up her for remote webcasting thanks to
thank salad
have also see that hadn't forgotten I was going to her said to colleagues across the bonnet via as the Executive Member responsible for this area has requested that he had takes part in the meeting which are very happy to do if there aren't any other members of business Panel report comes to any questions then what we do is a cabin would like to comment and then when asked for officers to respond as their wish so a conceit cabin but over the Kevin
I thank you Chair and if you can see me now maybe now I'm I want so I want to thank officers for getting to work on this and I certainly agree with the sentiment that we should be moving towards type meeting that something I've been keen on before we had this crisis because it really is as John Milbank said important about accessibility that that people can see and participate regardless of whether they can physically get to meetings or not so so I think is important we do the work in any event and there are some logistical issues you with making sure that the practical stuff of making sure that those her in physical meeting can still see those who aren't sound issues on that so officer working on that side of things and on I've asked that you know we are ready to go as soon as possible and report back as to say Look we're ready to go that's the first bit the next bit which is really really important is the safety issues and there are two elements there and you've got the issue about the at the safety of those were taking Parton I hear what William Cohen saying while yet you've got the meeting itself and becoming a big enough space for that but we have to think about this at the safety getting in and out the building the use of the Civic Suite which is currently closed for most purposes at the moment so there are practical issues around safety in that has to be part of the safety assessment
and then find the point about you know about our role in you know where should we be in terms of the wider population yes we do need to to try and it's important unit or physical interaction with each other because of the Schumann you know desire anyway but there is a big difference in that in terms of operating it ultimately if we have to operate remotely I think was shown of last few months with a lot of effort in Omagh for on everyone's part that we can operate remotely so so that to me comes first or businesses you know there's attention that got as an economy there and can do that and we are not parliament and we're certainly not going to be more like Jacob Rees-Mogg insisting on people coming into two meetings as the way he did her and so parliaments had quite a few issues of this as well other Council target issues my concern is that we are ready as soon as we can and that then at that point we do our risk assessment that's your out and you know
and I'm having regular updates with officers and I will certainly ensure that they report back to both men Cabinet and 2 0 2 business Panel and scrutiny members on that thank Kevin before call for Councillor Sobel's had his hand up as the last questioner on this point
just just to comment on on on your comments Kevin run of the
reacts I think we accept all that and it's correct but we want to see it happening and want to see the process happening so update feed back is extremely important for councillors and others to see that it's going on and so we can see the progresses of Borges Wadham was what I'm saying and that if the is going to be an issue at some point we find out what that she was as quickly as possible so we can make decisions in whatever is necessary as ever I will don't count recount believe and I said that was the last question from Councillor sober they these will be the very last two questions before we got the key decision plan and another brief and succinct into the pine from 4th colleagues saw Councillor look than julianatkins
I'm not going to be very naughty because it's not even a question Bill it's a comment I just wanted to share with everyone that we have had experience already of hybrid meetings I remember sitting in a room fellow scrutiny chairs that interviewing our Chief Executive who was in a different country at the time was
visible on the screen and and it was obviously very successful because Kima's now in now in post and also I I have chaired children and Young People's Select Committee where an outside a partner of ours wasn't able to attend in person and they they meant presentation thing that used Skype technology so we were able to see our partner on the screen and I don't know if he was I able to see us so I think there's some past experience we can build on a totally and take on board those of caveats that Kevin has mentioned but I think where there's a will and the probably will be in a solution down the road thank you for indulging me Chair thank those about thank you look thank Air Juliet please and names very quick to Kevin you speculate he spoke about all the various areas what we got concerns about and the rest my Committees on the 9th of September are we going to be ready
the due to answer yet so so absent honoured to point out Luke definite on that commerce agree with you that whether the wheels away and we're going that'll pushing hard on that site and work offers enough now on timing I have to say I have to say Julia I would I doubt I seriously doubt be the 9th September on my get is going to be a bit longer than that and the first thing we'll do is report back and say look we are ready so we can resting place I don't even think will have the kit and everything ready for the 9 September I'll be honest through the on that so
and then report back it's ready and then the next bit is you know when do we think that we've done the risk and safety assessment that we think we can do it
and that that can be let alone thank you thank you Chair thank everyone I a thanks for your contribution cabin and do other any officer to wish to make any comment at this point if not accept sort of so now with not which is not the case that too so we'll go onto item for the key decision plow or beg your pardon I started officer I even offered to him I am put that put your camera on please Allen

4 Key Decision Plan

did you want to comment now someone on the key decision plan comment Arquette Surrey again the khaki jumping ahead it's rare you're don't over apologies and so that will come back to form the key decision plan as are put forth it's each of these meetings is important document for Councillor to see what's coming up is important issues and decisions coming up in one out highlight as the school meals provision which would be coming up which will be a conversation that decision on insourcing outsourcing basically a unschooled Mill provisions or just as one area that the these all this is the transport to get even with pre decision on things coming alongside is one highlight that and before us comes the whole and other any other members of the Panel wish to ask any questions all such on this report
we have come Flaherty he had done so that if the DOE of the island if you'd like to please say OK Councillor Millbank so allanol than Councillor Bill Shankly's
he said you picked up on the one that I was going to raise our erm which is 25 on the loans page 4 to 7 school meals within and I've just been made the point that obviously if we're going to be looking at it from the point of view of the thinking about which coming in so an in house we should also look at the comment here about them the comet and school leaders not supporting that models system that will be offered quite interested discussion to have
but not in this Council told councillors so we have to give a shout out all Councillors this is an important and had job of what's coming down the line so so yes thank you John Allen old please Councillor Hall and thank you Chair and an annual know this as a as is the current chair of overview and scrutiny but him when we have a a new decision to take a cabinet meetings it should be on the Key decisions plan and I could not see them as the award of a leisure contract or put onto the key decision plan so my question is when was this actually put on the key decision can because I don't think it shows now when you look at the website and secondly the last meeting of the Mayor and Cabinet was entirely InPrivate and there are special rules about holding having made meetings in private there should be 28 days notice objects eject objection should be considered and or other other other other other features to and I just wanted to know whether or not all of these procedures have been carried out thank you Chair
and salad I will cover which officer will captain Flaherty a cabinet your Julia camera on I think you feed off that in the first instance correct kratom chirp and certainly confirmed that the item didn't appear in acute decision planned there for the urgency procedures were used
so the for definitely wasn't I've ties 28 days in advance and the notice of the public to object to it being private wasn't published either but for both of those failures there are urgency procedures which can be used in the case of emergency so for an item which hasn't been notified as private they that needs the permission of the chair of in scrutiny and officers assure me that that was obtained from yourself
in terms of the key decision plan failure a notification takes place to the draft business plan with permission isn't required under notice as published Sam said that the mayor's consummate this decision which did in fact occur
vice-captain abstain Councillor Collins and goal Elim your that you all please go ahead
thank you to my question is on Item 14
her on page 45
so 46 on the nose gives a summary of the declaration of Grove Park nature reserve
and the problem I have with this is it was supposed to be done about five years ago and for reasons only known to the Council machine it was an actions and we are greatly concerned because of I've mentioned this before as well about the Grove Park the Railway children urban National Park Grove Park this is a serious 38 new part be put together under the Local Plan and the problem is is that it seems that we're not putting in the protections necessary in advance to protect that land to create
the urban national park and so there's applications in to develop upon her nature reserve land adjoining the Croke Park nature reserve and the problem is that
o we could have had the protection afforded as a declaration of a local area serve a 5 years ago we asked for again at the beginning of the year and now it's finally coming through but we had a an emergency mayor and cabinet tomorrow and it could have been because it's just now all the papal extreme Duchess rubber-stamping but we now having to wait until September I don't need to tell you are the people that unscrupulous applicant can get it and cut down trees and have already done it on this site so we are greatly concerned local ward councillors of asked me to raise this I'm raising as the Chair of sustainable development when not putting in a Tree Protection order where delaying the declaration of the nature as Local nature Reserve and I think that if the Mayor and Cabinet are going to meet again emergency wise before September can it be put on that agenda if not we would ask that they hold run anyway just to get it declared I'm sure it's quite easy to do under these circumstances where we held meetings now thank you thanks Lamb
Captain calamity before asking her to commend it Kevin she and still he me it is appropriate officer hostile response on the broader issue as well but can apply turkeys
they are basically changed as explained earlier there are emergency procedures to use in cases of genuine emergency so the case could be brought forward that the designation of the nature reserve which is June September have to take place in August or either earlier in September and that could be put to our lawyers it could be put to the mayor and we could see if it met test stringent tests of urgency and those of course will also have to be passed by yourself so in theory as the process but in practice we do have to actually attempt to address the agency issues and be safe from potential challenge
thank you Kevin his Kevin she and here in all your Calvert officer with the issue Kevin I am here and you know my apologies if this has taken longer to get to marry cabinet then you know it should have done but what use is quite a long time
Upper attempt the timing I you know I I think certain areas as near as we can get and I
I defer to Kevin flysas better knowledge of the constitutional nuances of how we take decisions then I then you know that I've got but I mean I I know we're fully committed to this project of said in other places and I think I hope I hope that we can get the decision made in insert timber and we can take it forward from there
thanks cabinet I say I'll endeavour women
to guard down but upgraded I'll take on is the last question on the site of air but before us Allen the Any other business of Members of then Councillors got any points to raise if not you'll be the last question Alan Horne
thank you Chair and an incentive to labour this point and but also a cavernous quite rightly outlined the emergency or procedures it because I know 28 days across and really urgent needs to get through one of those provisions though is that the notices signed by the various Chair whether be Chair of Council and or Chairman Reince crudely those notice he should be available on the website and I don't know where that is I've never seen them on our council website and I also don't think they were displayed outside the Town Hall so I just just for complete this now as we value discussion about this I just wonder whether or not these notices are available for for fairly 1 minute of the public to see and finally just to say that the was an objection from an organisation and that was Unite the Union who did write to the mayor to say that they did not understand why this was being held in a confidence and so that's why I'm asking because it the protests sort of worked but it didn't work if you note any thanks Chair banks out of cabinet I can you reply with without particularly the notices of decisions and public what is the procedure in other Berkeley have been followed this there are chancer consultant of the covert pandemic but be happy to send a link to the notes on the website to Councillor Hall after the meeting he raised the point the physical notices and outside the town Bull those provisions have been suspended because of the current pandemic so hard copy notices displayed outside the Townville on no longer a little climbing that listen to me the 7th of next year
I scattered that up
order before we move on to the next point I just say you're right they're going very correct Allen and we all are coming from the same point of view that we want to make sure from the council's point of view information should take place and from a resident of the Pope was punk review they conceive transparently what's going on and I'm confident all or or not exact councillors as they roar are continuing to try and get a process as best as possible with those ends
I'd like to move on now to the next item unfortunately the next item is an item that is going to be discussed with the exclusion of the press and public this is because of legal guidance with regard to confidentiality with theses subjects had been discussed so at this point I would have to say good vital to say goodbye comes less Conway if they were sure indicate any the way that members of the public the press have been watching the proceedings online I hope you've enjoyed it and then please come again
we will just pause for a moment while we