Standards Committee - Wednesday, 5th August 2020 at 7:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Standards Committee
Wednesday, 5th August 2020 at 7:00pm 

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1 Declaration of interests
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2 Minutes
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3 Consultation on The Local Government Association’s Draft Member Model Code of Conduct

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you OK and Järvi's weather were now live on the web as out 8
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Ogimi that meeting is live now I think you can start the meeting now is an ABAB cast costing no OK because their destiny what I'm a courageous and very very beginning happen attended a number of them teams meeting but having chaired one so I relied on officers who got me with show I don't like to watch to earn arrows welcome everybody God I am in France profonde even day where he was lovely nor some hot and a breezy
so I mean you know me Guinea or defray Chair of the Standards Committee so Mayor asked them other comrades and friends to introduce themselves and so they are thank you
good evening everyone I'm see who TNK a councillor for Bellingham Ward thank you so
Councillor Stephen Wolfram core Crofton Park a member of the Standards Committee
I was a
OK I'm very more Council the report every instance committee that Murray Councillor Phil Brown
thank you bet
Councillor Andrew borne for Downham and cabinet member for culture Jobs and skills thank the Ondák's I'm I'm Councillor Patrick Kota Council Councillor for Lewisham Central Lord thank you
about Councillor opened by they were from Dunham she our planning C
hello I'm counsellor Jim Mallory from the reward and we gave them
hello everyone and Leslie Thomas Independent Member
angrily
I know you're sorry hello everyone and David open even Independent Members well
hello everybody I'm truly want an independent member
and the jury
1 on capital of an independent member and really hearing if not Vishal
hi good evening Munnings facile Amlin current panel member as well
I'm Jill Butler on lay member
thank you again
have we all gone

1 Declaration of interests

I do apologise I'm beginning format because I haven't spirit of chair this meeting patchily carry your ranked was first uttered again that community any business said and consecrate I don't want Chase declarations of interests and the might Sunnymede with an interest to declared thank Gill now let us are invited to make it clear vision of an interest may have in any of the item on the agenda for us tonight
any any direct of interest from anybody I have no interested Claire
OK I've got no comment from any Member so as soon as nobody has any declaration of interest to me OK this item please Kevin

2 Minutes

ITEM 2 to other minutes and there are two sets of minutes for approval tonight from January 20 20 and unfair Jhalak 15 20 20
was as I can see what I've read I do not anything which is incorrect in either of the two minutes of the past meeting any member could make comment Orchil pointed-toe any point of ink of an incorrect
Brexit as low comma for anybody can I guess move as chair that the minutes of the previous meeting be accepted as corrected CEO of those two meetings can have any yes
second
thank you thank you agreed until kept recurring
37
yes
I cannot allows I've got enough
sorry
if I'm picture is
so as to find
some of the Assembly for my boy among fellow and be back
sorry check-in you and me please
thank you yeah I guess those are welcome to the vast year Councillor Polly Morrison
welcome right now when we I mean it can be moved and seconded that the minutes of the past two meetings been accepted as Caroppo CEO of that meeting that a great
the Committee Chair fairway care until the Chair improve street tree
11
so

3 Consultation on The Local Government Association’s Draft Member Model Code of Conduct

ITEM 3 change the consultation on the Local government Association's draft Member model code of conduct will lead officers have a presentation on this item and go
thank you Chair hello everybody if those you that I haven't met yet I'm actually your new monitoring officer took event shall I was appointed in May and I started with the Council and just the same week Kath left your previous monitoring officer I can assure you I am getting round to her to seeing all our members I have actually met the chair and at some point another I hope I get an opportunity to meet you all I've either virtually all face-to-face we have an item for you with regard to the draft code of conduct that the Local government Association and has decided that it wants to actually to put out around all employees and members at to seek their views I have appointed since I've been with the Council to Deputy monitor officers they are present this often this evening and Petra and Catherine I think you might know them because they were the previous Ammos Deputy managing officers well so I've decided to keep up the continuity and Petra has very kindly drafted this report and has actually gone through it with the Chair previously and we are happy with the way that the recommendations have been put forward and petrol will take over this item and do a presentation for you this afternoon evening
thank you
and there's a review hello everyone that evil
I hope you can hear me this of the here
thank you for loving a right well we're bringing this item to you because specifically it's your Committee the Standards Committee that is tasked under the constitution to advise the Council on the introduction and operation of the Member Code of Conduct and to make recommendations the change as you see fit you've got the report in front of you paragraph 1 point 3 contains the recommendations for you and the first recommendation is for you to consider the proposals set out within the draft model Member Code of Conduct which has been produced as Sookie just explained by the LGA and furloughed its contents and then to agree whether or not to respond to the LGA on the consultations I thought it would be helpful rather than just had the bland documents in front of you if perhaps I was to put it in some kind of context and sets out for you the main points and then you'll have a much clearer picture of how you want to proceed tonight so if it's all right with everybody I'd like to move on to a very short slide presentation is that all right yeah I going to try now thank you
I'm hoping this works yes it does I hope everybody can see this
OK so I want to put it in context first there's a national context and then a local context
the Localism Act 20 11 abolished the statutory independent body Standards for England also abolished the national Member Code of Conduct and it created a duty on local authorities to adopt their local codes of conduct
a number of statutory elements were incorporated within that and within that as well was a duty to make arrangements for dealing with allegations and investigations of breaches of the local Member Code of Conduct and importantly including appointment of at least one independent person to that nationally
then
during 20 12 as a consequence of that piece of legislation Lewisham as you know adopted the current Local Member Code of Conduct and approved the current procedure for handling all complaints of breaches of the code
since 20 12 2 January this year there have been cast has been providing you whether you know regular compliance reports and nothing happened until January this year when Cath is the monitoring officer then advised you and you saw that in the minutes that members of the Standards Committee the Committee for a Standards in public Life for carrying out a review of the Local government as Dakhil standards
so this is where we are now and this is why we're bringing it back to you so the next slide explains what that committee is it advises the prime Minister on ethical standards across the whole of public life in England and is totally independent and non-departmental and it states that its objectives are to reinforce the values of the Nolan principles which is what incorporated in your own code of conduct
the first recommendation out of 15 recommendations was for the Local government Association to create an updated model code of conduct there were in all 15 recommendations and many of them would have required and still do require statutory amendments if that be given effect to and that's quite important when you also look at the model code of conduct and I'll bring this to your attention as and when so at the first recommendation has been dealt with by the LGA and this consultation closes on the 17th of August
the LGA model code of conduct is there to to support the LGA's objectives which is to aspire to high standards of leadership and performance for councils and it recognises the important role of Councillors and how the conduct of an individual council can affect the reputation of all Councillors and in particular of the council
and a pudding bowl that the LGA's state that they want the role of a council to be one that people aspire to and what to participate with to continue to attract individuals
from a range of backgrounds and circumstances and he wants down the responsibility they take on and are motivated to make a positive difference to their local communities going to just move you on
so are all councils or cause across this country are required to have a local Member Code of Conduct as you know since the Localism Act the LGA say that their model code of conduct will be reviewed annually and to ensure that it remains fit for purpose
the first point and I mentioned this in your report is a recommendation to have a presumption of acting in an official capacity
this is taken directly from the CSO appeal recommendations I'm but as I'm pointed out your earlier this is one of those matters that would definitely require a change in legislation if you were a nationally if it were to be agreed to
the LGA supports this recommendation going forward and this would include all statements made by councillors including on social media and importantly includes two important aspects and I've put these embodied for you and there any vertical was but I thought it's important for you to note them in particular for your discussion and consideration
the aspects are as follows one situations where you could be deemed to be representing your council or two if there are potential implications to the Council's reputation
it clearly recognises post covert virtual meetings happening are increased use of social media and so on but these are important concepts for you to be alive to a when you consider how you wish to proceed
the next slide
the LGA states that it's muddled draft Code set out specific obligations of general conduct and these it says are the minimum requirements of member conduct and must be observed in all situations where you act or claim to give the impression that you are acting as a council or in public including representing your castle on official business and when using social media
the next important point for you to note is in the context of disclosable pecuniary interests
I didn't Appendix II
of attached to the report which is the CSP L report
and the table at 1 page 11 and notes on page 12 the idea here is for the public perception
to this point the LGA is recommending broadening the definition so as to importantly add unpaid directorships and this is unpaid directorships within the context of disclosable pecuniary interests of that coin is important and it says it's also to include being a member of the committee of management of an industrial and Provident society and have basically this will include trustee ships and co operatives and this is proposed to be added by the LGA to list which includes any employment office trade profession or vocation carried on for profit or gain
but again to note that if this was to be approved as a consequence of the consultation and positive response nationally then it would nonetheless require a change to the current legislative provisions moving on
gifts and hospitality this is a little bit more straight forward
the LGA are proposing that the value of any such gifts or hospitality should remain at 25 pounds and above and then be reported the monitoring officer within 28 days of receipt but they also say that councillors should be particularly cautious regarding this aspect interestingly the C S Pierre went well in a different direction they have not supported this proposal are what they proposed was a higher figure of 50 pounds or over or an accumulative value of 50 pounds over the course of a year from a single donor so
there are towards the LGA and the CSPs on that the next slide
sanctions
the LGA has been addressing this broadly within the headings of breaches of the Code of Conduct and Internal resolution procedure
and that's to be found on pages 6 6 Surrey and 7 of the draft model code the LGA is seen to be addressing breaches in procedural stages and proposes for serious matters ultimately a ban to the Council from attending or chairing committed for up to two months without any right of appeal now the original proposal proposal by the sea SPL was more robust and it recommended for serious breaches
having the power to suspend Kelleth without allowances for up to six months and or see SPL originally recommended that in the event of such a serious penalty being imposed the CSP I would also recommend that there would be a right of appeal by the council to the Local government government on vitamin
next slide civilities a concept more than anything else and for this I'd ask you to look at page 4 of the LGA draft model code and the LGA defies it expressly as meaning politeness and courtesy in behaviour speech and in the written word
this is met so far with a mixed reaction in the feedback received a number bodies consulted have so far suggested that respect perhaps is more appropriate and preferable to be inserted on the basis that respect is a wider concept than civility
have a look at ice I would suggest that the context for this when you make your decision because the LGA's as it includes one treating other councillors and members of the public with civility and to treating Kurzel employees employees and representatives of partner organisations and those volunteering for the Council's with civility and respecting the role that they play
next slide yes this brings us back almost the very beginning this committee may or may not choose to provide a response to the consultation and in the event the committed decide to provide a response then the Monitoring Officer and myself and Catherine will facilitate this on behalf of your chair and that the response from the appropriate government department is none the less still awaited
and whatever the outcome of the consultation ultimately we will be coming back to you with a full report to set out what the recommendations are and
and then that's it for this particular report it is very much now over to you members of this committee to discuss and decide how you wish to proceed are just going to stop sharing my
I hope that's clear
the motion
is now doors for social as members what have had is fairly comprehensive
investor from ambition from the LGA and as you mentioned saddened and see as P L
now could you briefly as being to a different between we're ageist hands and were CSPs stand in this on this report
I am sorry Councillor on this report I've sought by virtue of the slides to set out the approach taken by the LGA to the model code I've tries to bring to your attention the main points and showed the disparity between the LGA and the see SPL in the slight I'm very happy to circulate the slight for you so that you will have them to read it your leisure thank you right members now invited for Komiza and got a hand up here consider mightily
thank you Chair
I didn't I didn't I have but I'm plan proposes not to take an awful lot of time I didn't hear anything had pinched his presentation where we wouldn't want to agree with the L the LTA rather than the the see Peter Sellers it and I would suggest the way we were not only not just note
the report but that we send an endorsement to the LGA thing that we support the recommendations
Jim was very hot food coming from other Members please
balladry
but let me that my hand up as well all of the messages Niger Oakapple the OAE's period completely minute and you're Pat Coccaglio part are below I'm lives going to say something very similar to Jim so I just want to endorse what Cheema said thank you will get me I know is it's clear his name
I think a site I took the agree and I think what are they key things in this and was the element that has caused them a number of issues I'm speaking here as Chief Whip as well as a now the Committee and that is the issue of social media how how it is so difficult for anyone to separated individual are posting things on social media when people know that their council I think that is something that that is to be recommended because it will then remove this a grey area of our thinking that you can be separate whereas if that really you are acting as a Council because that's how people know you were what you become a Councillor if you like you know that may know a member as are you know people see you in that light with what you post-Saw as I think that's really are an important one and I think the a couple of the other things our January Dorset on
I don't think the the the the comments about sort of not having a right of appeal does concern me slightly that was where the LGA's things about the two months without right of appeal that's probably my legal background I don't like the situation we don't have a right of appeal but on the other hand the other one sees more draconian from sepia C S B album early my colleagues to debate on that thank you do me
thank you thank you on that thank you could totally I think I get no gay my desire to me
yes some just year our wacko the simply my colleague already set especially what the Councillor Moore said which is very important on the Savea side away I agree with everything everybody said
unless one is at last year for the museum
only will not arise again suncare as actually I agree with Council Mallory yes the most sensible way to go
and character unless the this
listen I listened
putting
and here
I wanted to just her agree with Councillor more in terms of the social media issue I think they if it
I think at present it's fairly clear in terms of personal activities outside of the Council's role and activities within the Council's role and I suspect that although it's helpful was his big opposed it may be more difficult for Councillors and indeed monitoring officers
to interpret when a particular incident which is the cold because there seems to be some
fine finer grain granularity to this than current arrangements which are pretty clear within the role as a Councillor you know you have you have to observe the Code of Conduct didn't you private lives you don't and that's been well established in the courts previously and I have a suspicion although I think it's a welcome proposal I think that it might cause some difficulties in operation and understand for members as to where that boundary lies
it almost suggests that councillors may not be able to have a private life in that respect and anything that the cut on social media may be ei Beal opened to a code of conduct challenge
anyway that's all I had third through David as in this PISA my Lizzie so we can go
and I just put this
I just want to say that and this is probably something for Beale as well as Jimmy
that we have been elected to represent people so we're not always going to agree with the path of the Council I think we need to bear that in mind
as we're discussing this because there was an early slide that that Petra posted early wrong that was kind of basically saying we couldn't sorry this is not probably saying what you said but it it was saying the we should be careful about whether or not we publicly said anything ever against the Council and and I think the the that I don't know I think there needs to be a little bit of
direction for us as Councillors about what we can and what we can't say does that make sense to you lot
he asked about those
wherever were still me as individual members or me away and is Bizzle get ourselves electorate loo represent our Constance's or whatever and if that were booted into positioned by members of community as the just us as Councillors also the position with a percent
and it is trust with people having us to vote for us and therefore is not just ethical is also moral was as yet I am sure that those who have trust in us and not disappointed as as away as it were independent there a time when you want me not agree with a group of the party that once and for so will have to find the boundary between what in your conscience as a consular to ensure you represent your Committee to the best of your ability as well as datasets neighing we're not really independent our way
what
I don't know
were adequate weight help what we can't them what we can't say them where we're not really independent and that she now as all of you know I'm not going to be counsellor so I know I'm I'm just asking from a place where I but I need to know
where I am aware that my personal view is we represent would represent a surf unobserved where the party that elect us and therefore the Samkos son you might be repaired in your conscience were seen time you are you subscribe to the value of the party or whose platform you stand there's I'm existence 8 as yes thank he can me I think she's got something say he has suggested the cycle something say were gives a very son is believer of this Council has been jailed education Oaken of insoles got a lot to contribute Jim place the preface years
thank you Chair
I wasn't sure whether foods comment was a bit of any the a barbed comment that I'll I'll take it in passing
the several things have got to say I I mean I think there is a big difference between criticising something that the Council is doing in a reasonable way because you're representing your constituents or your adhering to your own personal values or views and actually bringing the council into disrepute because that's the issue is whether and part of the Council's reputation is based on the the the recognition that its Members must have some independence of saying things so I think provided you're not bringing the Council as an institution into disrepute is perfectly reasonable to criticise either a council action or a council policy and so I think that's quite an important comment tonight that I just wanted to comment on something I think that David said I mean I think attached you say we were almost ruling out our own private lives but the truth of the matter is that as Councillor I can't can't speak for others but as a counsellor I actually understand that becoming a Councillor means than I do have to behave in such a way that that you know my private life is actually under some examination as well and it is perfectly certainly within the bounds of integrity and honesty is perfectly reasonable to expect me to behave in a way which wouldn't embarrass the Council and at the same time have to have a private life so I don't see anything particularly wrong with that I'd simple that the only other thing is I'd support though Councillor Moore and her their common I think social media is a whole new dimension and doesn't mean or that we have to be extreme and another thing the LGA's religious bet is better because it's actually opening up the needs they yourself on social media as well be because it is extremely dangerous as as we've had previous examples of people reaching some of that and looking to see whether it was something sensible or not and on and so I think you know having a special of paying special attention to what you do on social media is is extremely important so thank you for your indulgence on sorry if I've come in twice and people think that was it that was nice speaking too much
the Fiver on my this now how to please show me just check my on your list case secano grapple Curtis can be personal capacity where I High thank you Chair yes a couple of points if I may Chair and intensive these specific recommendations highlighted by
what Trump in her presentation
like many of you I do support and most of the recommendations that early L Jaber of a couple of caveats that the one of particularly supports I'm something that I'm as an independent or late Lane a member of the Committee
he said it to be quite important is the if if people know that you're a councillor and whether or not you're actually acting in an official capacity in any particular situation or circumstance might my view is that people will associate how you behave and act and conduct yourself with the Council that you know there is a kind of a Rob of on the Council therefore the potential for other bring the Council into disrepute so I think that that that kind of a recommendation of a presumption of thing official customer I think is important although I absolutely agree with David that it actually makes your lives more difficult and I think that is true but I do think it's important if I don't think ordinary people make these kind of fine distinctions about whether you have actually got your official hat on or not and I'm particular situation but so I think that's important
My caveats are about the the assurance ability and Petra raise on the point about there being mixed reception on this recommendation but it's not the oversee civilities very important but I actually do think that respect if not just on a wider concept I think it's actually a deeper onset I'm I can be very civil I can be very polite in interacting with you but that doesn't necessarily entail me having any the valuing of your points of view in other words I can be quite to I can be polite but still be disrespectful in my general cut out or call my general attitude though I'd for me and respect is the sort of priority of oversee civility matters but that's when Martin be my view on that one the other thing and then had a caveat on the LGA recommendations Chair was the at the one around and the gifts and hospitality amount for night I certainly agree that keeping that 25 pounds the threshold but I thought in the review report
this idea of including some kind of annual limit because it seemed to me with so 25 pounds who knows someone could receive you know half a dozen and a half dozen or indeed more gifts of 20 part 20 pounds each you know value of 20 pounds and therefore kind of going under the radar if light and actually repeat what a lot of hospitality inappropriately or inadvertently so I quite like the idea of adding in some kind of annual ceiling as well from the from a single source and that was my specific points and I did have some very and general comments about the model code of conduct SHA and I don't know if you want to come to those laser or whether it own and from those chancer where they want to make my comments on that night now well suggested carrier complete please if that OK thank you
I found a at Shaw
I would be a model code of conduct this appointing key honest in its general as a general
draft and an important piece of work and and in in a way for me the clue is in its title which is member of model member conduct rather than Member model conduct though for me and I think that it needed
more framing and within the actual body of the clauses of the Code the Code in terms of
that sort of context in which Members are operating and for me the context the very much about the sort of public interest and public responsibility
the unnamed being very supportive in reflecting that Phaidon think it really reflected the actual Nolan principles
in actual drafting of the specific code though it was quite so the arm reactive in its is not prior to about ethical standards thing to me that it overemphasise the kind of individual you know what the avoid this is quite of negative rather than proactive in terms of promoting and a unit naming focus attire sang the behaviour
the route it was more about avoiding listen and don't do that says quite of negative rather than part 2 so it set a general tone for me that very much down played the whole set of the Russian all for unethical Code of Conduct
and so to underplay the
the Russian of serving the community and and having that sort of collective responsibility that that that members had there not just convinced Burgess avoiding getting told off its active about promoting a particular kind of a force in tone and culture
that the Council and I I just although there was a bit of it in the covering letter of the code that the proposed model and I didn't really think that came through a tool and I thought more much more framing in terms of fat
the reasons why it's important to have the supplies and disengagement the public democracy and and the same it's an outcome through for example in my view quite clearly in the Lewisham Local Code that I didn't see it really at all in the young the LGA and draft
I'll shut up now
thank you thank you for the and I'll begin Bill because the be brown
thanks Chair firstly I want to say that I don't know how long we had this item for information but this is exactly the kind of information of be going to be going to record the councillors looking at them putting in ideas if this is a consultation our colleagues would have been there the people to go directly to on this and get some kind of feedback from their me that I ready to the Chair of the Committee or through Council however way it was done so I don't know what time frame we had put to me this is exactly the kind of thing we should find we get feedback from councillors in the first instance at this time of consultation with regards to the specific femme things in the summary firstly care Petra thought it was a very good so if I can just say that will rob read for the part these one rather larger than the other for the Cilmi was extremely helpful and on a specific things you put in there am I am uncomfortable about Councillors everything they do is a as a public representative of the authority
when you look at the
research and the rationale put forward by the Committee the and if you look at the nation's there's no clear one way of doing it different in Northern Ireland Scotland etc.
I am until there's no clear conclusion and I do feel uncomfortable when Cathy was just giving her contribution by the police she said was if they know your councillor nothing very important to me you know an angle senior samples shall not go with examples and in parts of a put in by the the Committee's report but as I say I'm comfortable with Gish Sturm going down that route without further consideration and further looking into it
with regards to the gifts and hospitality again I'd be grateful Kathy I couldn't understand back on the Russian out between 50 and 25 but I thought the torching of a hundred was a good idea whichever way we went on and I thought that would be useful taking away countless allowances I can see that as a sanction for again have concerned with sanctions against councillors using facilities if councillors for whatever reason would ending the could be myriad reasons why someone may have been told at be sanctioned I put that to encase work for residence of their carrying out air and still have a duty
to carry out the work for residents potentially for whatever the reason is that are being suspended etc so that was a concern that came to mind if we're take the phone away from the more if we start not let him coming in using them facilities if that's to carry out their role supporting and getting things done for residents than its residents were gonna come off worse there or should there be a procedure as Councillor councillors to pick his worth up whatever way we don't want a by product of something we will residents losing out on getting there things whatever may be am dealt with by a local representative
and I think I'm like Hillary I thought it again that seemed like a positive idea having an appeal if a gonna go to sanction and Councillors for six months there and facilities or not give me crisp commence moment go then and an appeal process would be good I feel it would dare on natural justice so again that my comment on that particular item
and that's it I do have reservations about this Sam or Konstantin classes acting in public at all times I just read read like an Islander thank you to me
further to the rear I consider circles and verge officer hands up and do to minute no shall Professor Mona members who what before to the warty little the was Jack may be if you want to go for the comments that Sir Members have got I come back on some of the the the point so I think I might be able to add some substance or may be to help with regard to some of the issues have been nice lowered thank you that Abu down here crystal-clear more
as she feared she said that to achieve the dance or my comments I put in the Trafford on some ire for those my points I won't speak again so that's letting or averting half m had not far from any of the work of the wedding were
no Chair or no OK or
OK
I contacted him Head of known it but way over compact beer yes the left of one thing apologies to everybody with regards to the declaring interests in co-operatives and charities etc. in the discrepancy there I feel whether it's appointed by the Folger not I think it's a good thing that all councillors declare but what what but is only one they're doing etc. not one I missed off apologies fancily not before breaking Suki and quickly to your first part of your coming to them
Bill
I'm I'm consultation that 10 Members you but you can sort it does know nothing against that but the concerts such a good and it's got it's got to be finished by 17 of ogres from the petition made by patrons to us and for that we as a Committee member we are interests were far fellow Councillors therefore I do that we need to go back to members to make an coming before we can actually say one way or the other in terms of the questions being asked by the and LGA on the comedy which have been made to older members it seemed to me that nothing really at various in what has been proposed by the Aggie are therefore it out delaying go back to members before we make our opener known and and will be an impact it has of Clarke so my personal view is that we decide at this committee how far we go with you some additional we've been been proposed by the LGA so on that point out amarakos Academy and sharing in the Campbell reporting a chair I'm not a paw I'm not causing the go to camouflage and ask them this and are not opposing what you just said my comment was how long have we been in receipt of these things and Courant we should have in my opinion if time had given it gone out the Council's ahead of this meeting and we've had the report for this meeting for what a week perhaps I'm not sure so we are comment that I don't think anything so rages for your comments about the we keep in touch with our Councillor College indeed we do but one week to digest this and patted out the colleagues and get feedback wouldn't be appropriate I'm just making the phone for future reference Chair that if time allows if these things come up when it pertains particularly directly the council tax and Councillor conduct in this case can flutter in the loop
even if it's not your constitutionally mandated if the saying that would be point thank you Chair
I was Chair ochre our our back now
that everybody must everything has been said basically real hospitals father Spangher editable because losses Africa
Snatcher where we were back to get now
what am I
our our together now
I know yes we can you tell me nothing OK OK Catena of it
right
Turner begging them Suki yes chance and the Inner she would like to hear from I am I think count slur court has his hands up or perhaps the this book available out there that I remembered I was only going to say there's a few weeks ago I received an e-mail from the LGA ADASS as you know with regular updates from them in which they flagged this this consultation so I think lots accounts as I said I take bills point that at the same time and I can see his book is not overwhelmingly convinced by my pro-Kabila but just said other councils may have come across it like I did in another in another forum for for what I for one over a lengthy debate than actually attended the AG AG witness on this issue and apparently because the station was supposed to have started on the 8th of June by the not known about it was on it of June 2 17 of ogres so the first time we know about it in the usual and I know what went wrong
OK I take Pat's point bought any Milos Councillor saying that it could it be drafted the meeting in a month's time or whatever approaches it will be if there was to a current get involved going on a simple things have failed to weight get a lot of benefit from
who could Hauritz shall we move on now please
yes OK silkiness space
yes thank you Chair so I just want to run just to pick up a mean some of the points that have already been picked up with regard to the date that the consultation started and Councillor card his actually also mentioned that all officers in this world with regard to the ethical framework were asked to respond all councillors will have received it her and e-mail phone the MTA from the Aids at there's webinars Chair yourself attended there's questionnaires on the website and an your previous my predecessor would have had note of this probably United of round about the week after the 8th of June and given the fact that we had an awful lot of other things to to do and this was the first time we had the AGM to get through so it was considered too best to wait for this committee who's quite rightly Che or absolutely right the function of this Chair of this Committee is to be the champions and to safeguard and actually recommend a improvements to the Code of Conduct that's why you on this committee it you'll function I completely understand or where Councillor Brown or is also coming from that sometimes it's good to in a passably mail for all members to perhaps feed their thoughts into you Chair if we come across this Our situation again and therefore you can feed this into all your Committee members and it is very difficult to get everybody's response and you know our Role goes as far as getting the response from you and your Members of this Committee and the widening of the LGA which they've done at so I hope that gives councillor a bronze and comfort that you know we we will take on board but we will do also in what we can within the gift of time that we have and take it to the appropriate body with respect to next steps
I would like the Committee to run through the recommendations that picture to kindly his ears' put forward in her presentation and they are in your report is firstly consider the proposals put forward by the LGA which you have considered at this is been recorded and if you are minded to then say that Lewisham Standards Committee would like to put a response to this draft do the MGA we will take the comments or formulate them run them past you Chair and the Vice Chair and actually put that forward to the LGA but firstly you have considered it now you need to decide invoked by the want to response to go anything you do then it will be that we can gather all thoughts we can by the on them through you chair and vice chair or if the committee wishes be contrived put them through you again but time is short we do need to get this through the 17th August
thank you very much indeed I got their Jim Allister hands up
Councillor Hugh Madden dollars apologies again for coming in the reason I cook them what people will press regarded a low key a response when I when I skirted is an Unha appeal up Cathy ought to be ripped responded to a like Cathy I thought the code of conduct or the recommendations from the LGA are not negative but certainly not as proactive as they might be and I fully support her comments that Lewisham's own code of conduct they go coat of the code of conduct that we previously adopted has been much more proactive but that I'd sat simply say that the LGA is an organisation for which the in which the biggest single party Satori 40 which would want to row back on it can standards as much as possible and I say that advisedly and don't feel I'm bringing the council into disrepute in saying that and I think we need to be clear about that which is why I think that what the LGA is proposing are at minimum are probably the best that could be achieved through the consensus that the through which they have to operate and I'd suggest therefore that's why I wanted to be quite positive about our endorsing what they have recommended rather than simply not commenting at all so unless people want to make a memory and happy you know
people got particular points to make a I think we should certainly see if we can take them on board but I I think as a general point I think it would be good if we were to recommend that we endorse the recommendations that they that they do make because as I say what the LG what we would want the LGA to do is to be continuing to sustain if at all possible heart the as high standards as possible in which the the biggest party probably doesn't have the same agenda so leave it at that some of us gym and I think that's him re bring everything severely together and I think you make life easy as I can see for what I've read of would have learnt who from this scotching tonight I would I knew before I most anything wrong of was being proposed by the AQA there for having come from what Jim Marsh marriages said make life easy for us and unless that's anybody was very very very serious of Goetschel
in the proposal by LGA I would like to and proposed that we go along wouldn't be proposed in ageism consultation they go up again
yes thank you Chair if I can just clarify tie him I will be when somebody to take them on board on which the pocket park
I know it's still on the long Surrey for your horse force Achimeir
note
another member of the Committee has a that has the microphone on and everyone makes you have got to make reference to and RPM OK now she was going to make a phone numbers note feedback can you give your King out yet
I can't hear you know yes most of so I'm if I can just clarify please at the recommendations that were going to be like getting to poaching we accept which is the LGA but didn't go against anything of of the Commons with how earlier about my comments and partly from Cottontail am Cathy sorry at about Councillors being everything the do was in this as a representative of the authority etc. I just want clarity on that from an officer word as appropriate that them by acquiescing we're not going with that but if you're that I was brought forward but if those put on one particular items just in clarification so sure understand please maybe Petra
all of this around I am referring very much here again to the slide in its slide number 8 North circulate these after the meeting where it proposes a presumption of acting in an official capacity and those situations are where you could be deemed to be representing your council or if there are potential implications for the Council's reputation
but that's clarified that thank you Pedra nor that Morton on that which obviously I want you supporting for that measure for the comedy made earlier thank you
for
I can't stand him just any more hunger
Chair Unite could I just make a proposal peace based on what can't so wow and I'm apologise he was another Councillor make the point that these are you gathering your thoughts the first recommendation that we've put forward to as offices is that would you like to respond to firstly fact discussion and you've noted the contents of the draft code I knew agreed to that to note the contents then I've asked you actually want to make you representations to them which you clearly do however a we're I think you some of the comments that you have made you don't need to have a whole agreement as a committee that doesn't have to be a majority you know the recommendation first part one and part two do need your majority to go through but the response can actually put in comments that have been made and highlighted by your Committee members yeah so where the presumption of public life and the issue of sanctions and also I think it was the independent colleague that made the amid will get the names down we won't actually put names we say this is from the Committee's a general or said that the tone wasn't as good as the Lewisham PRU actual code of conduct at the moment so I think you know as a Committee I advise you to take in aid to to take note that you know Petya Catherine Catherine and I are prepared to kind of put your comments together and say Look we are supporting you but these are the areas would like to make some comment ask the Lewisham Standards Committee look
or to remodel got there were jitters with it
you can I now give it responsibility commodious proposal uniting half as that as a solution said that committee
Michael unhappy the movement to end and I'm happy to move it go taking on board the comments from our you actually the new Head of Law I'm not sure I got your total right but I think that's the right way to go forward to get out and that particularly addresses some of my worries about at that that I think that was right Kathy was right and I think if if if we can put that in some comments I think I would be really good
so yes I'm moving basically that a we we received a report that we endorsed the LGA's comments but we have further wind and endorse the recommendations but we have a number of further comments to make and again we leave it to you and officers to to to summarise the comments of the major thanking car has written member to secondary proposal from Germano second Chair thank you sir what doing it Head of Law doing it all to put on this actually goes I accept that said
done
Chevy the correct protocol for virtual rules is that although this is a consultation paper you still need to to get people to put their hand up to say that they agree I know and Councillor Malloy yes side sorry just myself beginning on your new director of law governance net charm I smeared them or that this said
asked Members therefore those who are in favour proposers be Mobike you marry as the coloured by customers to Janko those in favour please was the ratio handle the original goal of Lord Sewel Uzzell innovatory concession I do I think normally in the easiest persuaded to go through those Councillors dirty on their individually emergency road rather than erode over now
who's going to local Hook whose to those
can I consider putting Carter care can lead to that
OK
go through the list them at least Hillary the second of it not me I'm I'm sorry
as it was by a cottage Moti and seconded by customer locally more now I'm going to list who's got a little further have got the listener can call the role of the EU ochre rocky School of working
I walked out
ward councillors around Inverness
OK so
it is vital of course was published
to hold around all the road cancer rather proud of rock in favour
surrounding Iran and now the bowl
during the briefing hence the Brown that Brown
polyhalite selection
every time thank you with the comments of the Head of Law that all comments only be put into the final report a great
Councillor card
agreed
Councillor Hardy ankle agrees
Councillor Mallory
agreed
Councillor Morrison agreed you Councillor
grade
consideration by the where a great
independent member party
I agree
independent member Butler
she'll Butler
unlike any vote
the Chair invited you to signify your agreement 3
I am happy to tell you agree
Independent Member Roper Newman
the US
I follow a bit superfluous the comments as well yes thank you
Independent Members Sullivan
I am a agreed provided and that the comments are added to the general endorsement
thank you independent member Thomas
Miss B Thomas
he was the earlier yes he certainly was the honest or perhaps a sources try to me lawyer my
agreed thank you and find the Independent Member Walton a great
shared the proposal is unanimously agreed RE thank you very much indeed so that he said now
that
polymers and got a hand up
colleagues will have your hand up OK
can he was unless I care now
Jefferson
we now move to the whereby the necessary proposers came Kevin's any wasn't this item and if anything else no jobs the final item the closure or no that concluded meeting for tonight's tend to pay more for your attendance and I go back to my garden to do my watery
what are my friends