Strategic Planning Committee - Wednesday, 14th October 2020 at 7:30pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Strategic Planning Committee
Wednesday, 14th October 2020 at 7:30pm 









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2 Declarations of Interests
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3 SELCHP Waste To Energy Facility, Landmann Way, London SE14 5RS

OK thank you good evening everybody and welcome to this meeting of motion council strategic planning committee
I'm Councillor John with the passion I am the Chair of the Strategic Planning Committee and on shortly going to go through a roll call of the councillors who are also members of the Committee of present and they will introduce yourselves and also I will ask them when they do that to confirm whether or not they have any interest to declare relevant to the are Wrexham's on tonight's agenda
we are here tonight for the almost single purpose of considering any application 4 8 8 Messi pit would be like to be a new central heating boiler for Depret and a Bill Parfitt himself or bats on the funding Officer in a moment but it today very plumbing left so Councillors if we could go through the rolled flee and he said twitch on your might confirm or your present and also confirm whether or not you have any interest to declare yes me would you like to do that please he asked his Councillor for shed especially feel with the

1 Minutes

2 Declarations of Interests

well I I'm actually here now I had I had no interest to declare in the items on the agenda tonight thank you Councillor Gibbons
mutilate clattered classic muted yet own presence and I have no interest to declare answer low burner via leaving a present and I have no interest to declare
Councillor borne apologies for absence Councillor Clarke
I am present and I also have no interest to declare thank you
Councillor FAREHAM apologies Councillor Gallaher apologies Councillor Ogilvie they were
present nothing to declare thank you
Councillor shack
person and nothing to declare thank you and Councillor Walsh place present nothing declare are from I am cold thanking chin loading areas it off you'll be picking interested in situation right and we have
the the offices he in attendance to night are her Lewis good Godley no flood risk
we slide my list of them
we have we have Louis lucidly who his the planning officer dealing with this case these cases for his going to present them to tonight we have her David Robinson who is a planning officer his here as as backup in case Lewis disconnected from the meeting we have Chris style who is his their boss and they Service Group Manager for Development Management I believe we have Kevin Flaherty in attendance who is the caught the count soul and
facilitating the mistake and lastly Kazeem who is our Committee Clerk for tonight and in the background and hopefully not leading to a appear unless things go drastically wrong with meeting our been bicker from IT support and ha Mr. Palomar who is managing our have webcast feed members owl remind you but I think we all know the drill by now if you can keep your cameras on
for all other meeting if possible so the the public conceive you're you're here if you can keep your microphones muted everybody unless you are actually speaking less I invite you to speak and if you are disconnected from the meeting then please endeavour to contact one of us the back channel using WhatsApp he's is open and I think we're all on that if necessary
and I'm keeping at the Vega on that when I can and and officers are as well so if you become disconnected from the meeting please do your best to let it snow we will cause the meeting for a limited amount of time to get anybody we connected and obviously if you have not been able to follow the whole of the meeting been you won't be eligible to vote when we come to reach a decision on the applications are right let's just excuse me a moment while I

1 Minutes

go back to the agenda so can we first of all deal with the minutes of our meeting the 3rd September please I is a very happy Rosa of true record

3 SELCHP Waste To Energy Facility, Landmann Way, London SE14 5RS

OK please dissent if you don't agree with that I see no dissent no and raised or are thinking the checks which are also keeping an eye on and if you wish to speak again our I think we'll keep to the convention that if you type a single character queue or something in the chats rather than use the raise hand or wave your hand about I will endeavour to follow anything else that he released doing the Heine guarantee to do the yet the chat thing right so Minister agreed we can go on so consider our actually to slightly different applications for the South East London Combined Heat and Power waste to energy heating pipe so Lewis and being asked if you can share your screen but the presentation on and talk us through what for being asked to reach a decision on tonight cliques
OK thank you Chair and can you see the screen can you see the presentation I can see that fine OK I'd like to see some comes up around the screen as well so let's go
OK great Anello yet my name's lucidly I am a Principal Planning Officer working in the Planning Service on the case officer dealing with these two applications which form agenda item 3 the two applications proposed a decentralised heat network from the existing Cell chip waste facility on land man way Lanman way
to the convoys Wharf development site
that application was submitted by the owner limited the applications are brought to the Strategic Planning Committee given the strategic importance of the proposed development one neutral comment was received from a member of the public of application reference 1 1 7 7 2 8 no other comments were received from the public
An addendum was circulated to members this was circulated because the wording of conditions 5 and 6 were amended to reflect negotiations which were and taken with the applicant
I Kate so two two routes are proposed and as you say chaired two separate planning applications have been submitted
2 routes have been delivered sorry I have been proposed in the event that one cannot be delivered so reference planning application reference DC slash 2 0 slash 1 1 7 7 2 8 is described as the applicant at as it as the main route
reference DC slashed to 0 slash 1 1 7 6 8 5 is described as the alternative route by the applicant the development would utilise waste heat already generated by existing operations at the Cell chip plant and this would provide heat for development the consented development at convoys Wharf
both routes would be constructed in 11 phases and would have a depth ranging from the in the ground ranging between 1 point 8 metres and 2 point 5 metres once constructed the pipe would create the spine of the heat network so future connections in in the area would then be possible
from that spine route
the heat currently generated at soldier is is lost to the atmosphere and this development represents an immediate opportunity to reduce carbon emissions associated with heating homes and businesses in the north of the borough
the applicant has confirmed that it would not be commercially viable for both routes to be delivered and two only proposed so that there's a contingency in place
OK so this is the the first application the preferred route so reference D C slashed to 0 slash 1 1 7 2 8 and this route as you can see
it would travel from London way under the railway trundles Road into folks and Gardens I'm upset Juno way through folks and Gardens under the South Eastern railway line
following the pedestrian access archway here Gastard Street parallel to the rail corridor towards Blackhorse Road crossing evidence even Street
she drew Green Road and then along Grove Street terminating at convoys Wharf which you can see just on the corner of that that image they're hatched in green
so as I just said exception the proposed development would cross Folkestone garden this is a public open space for this section of the pipeline sorry for the section of pipeline beneath the archway
it is proposed that pedestrian access is maintained during construction
construction on the highway would result in single lane closures with signal controls all surface are also officers and finishes would be restored after each phase of construction is complete
Kate so the alternative route reference T. C. slash 2 0 slash 1 1 7 6 8 5 as you can see on your screen would travel again along Lamb and way Surrey Canal Road passing under the east London railway line and the South Eastern Row A-line Greensted Road even Street Tregarne Road Grove Street again terminated
at convoys Wharf
development site
shown there and hatched green
the pipe would predominantly be laid in either the footway or existing roads the exception being at the intersection of trundlers Road
Surrey Canal Road and Grinstead Road where works under the railway bridge will be required a full road closure on weekends would also be required all surfaces and finishes would be restored after each phase of construction is complete
OK so public benefit and policy context as long as outlined in the committee report the creation of a district heat network network as proposed would provide significant carbon savings utilising existing waste heat source from so check the Council's crime emergency action plan identifies that identifies that in 2 thousand and 18 Lewisham and Veolia signed a memorandum of understanding to work in partnership to to develop opportunities for heat networks in the Borough and the action plan also supports to creation of heat networks the creation of a decentralised heat network is identified as being of strategic importance within the the Core Strategy and Spatial Policy to
the Core Strategy states that the Council will work with developers to install a district heating pipe
to distribute heat from the plant and district hea heating that works could be established to serve development at convoys Wharf and the larger mixed employment locations at Surrey Canal Triangle Oxford Road and plough away there is therefore a strong corporate and planning policy support for the creation of a decentralised district heat network and reducing the reliance on national natural gas for domestic heating
OK I'm just to give that a bit of context this image shows potential nearby planned consented and constructed development that could be connected from the spine as outlined in the committee report further expansion could could also include plow White at Plough away comprising development at Cannon Wharf marine Wharf East Marine Wharf west Neptune Wharf Scott House just just to name a few
OK so to summarise the key issues and to conclude his presentation
as outlined in the committee report it has been identified that there is strong planning policy support for the principle of the proposed development
subject to the imposition of the proposed conditions
there would only be limited short term transport impacts the Coliseum appearance of the public realm including public open spaces and designated heritage assets would be protected
subject to the imposition of conditions there would be no harmful long term impacts on air quality noise or ecology
and that the risks associated with contamination can be controlled and mitigated so to conclude the proposed to applications provide a real opportunity for significant carbon reductions locally providing emission savings from development at convoys Wharf and establishing
wide Heat network that can be expanded further officers therefore recommend that the Committee resolved to grant both applications subject to the recommendation that recommended conditions outlined in the committee report and addendum 1
OK thank you very much Lewis so I've summarised I get before the meeting started the take would be a massive massive central heating boiler for that foot and I suspect that in terms of public communications we are not making merely as much noise as we should about this because it probably the single
Fabius positive contribution to our green agenda to have a positive impact on climate change of anything that I think I sat through unless we go all the way back to when we decided to build sell to slightly for my time even it's taken a long time coming I know OK I tried we we might need to go back to her for the route maps on your presentation Lewes and Rye 8 pull them back yet I yet if necessary yesterday and Members have you got any questions for the planning officer we are not going to have a presentation from the applicants and because I think it's fairly obvious what we seize for the Simon McKee from Viola Veolia which he is the operator Cell chip and Robert Burnett's are both here in case you on to our skinny really tackle plumbing questions about this so festival does anybody have any questions for Lewes
0sorry yes rights I think Susanna Councillor Clarke and the Seahorse then Councillor on the via Councillor Clarke go ahead thank you very much Chair I see I was interested in the cost to residents I think they schemes sounds absolutely wonderful but I know when we're talking about sustainability there once the scheme is in I would assume that there would be the main provider of heat for the residents for the foreseeable future and I was wondering if when you have one provider and one method of provision
what is the commitment to protect the residents from price increases I want provider to make sure that it is sustainable for all residents that was one question because obviously we were not given any detail of the background to these schemes and how the negotiated but that is the sustainability for the future and protection of residences is a question I think that's relevant to a planning application the second question I had was understand thousands of gas-fired boilers would be thrown away that's really referenced in the report and I wondered what we might be doing with them are there any plans for the concert the unintended consequences of this wonderful what looks like a wonderful scheme
which obviously will do a great deal for our emissions but do we have and anything for the recycling of those thousands and thousands of boilers that would Derby thrown away and the third question was just the applicant submitted Bat surveys and to service for nesting birds and I just wondered whether surveys done in the correct time of year that was from an ecological point of view and are we upset the EC ecology and re Regeneration Manager said that the treatment of the SINC site seems to be fine but I just wanted a little bit more information that we'd really dug down on the treatment of the SINC site
and which of these you know what was the difference between the different pathways of the pipeline which would be most beneficial regarding the ecology of the site and you
I am sure we can we take Councillor Olivier's questions as well and where he want to ask Mr. McKee to come in I think the one about pricing is probably a bit beyond the scope for the where we are allowed to make as a planning committee for our home in tracking poll but it might be better coming from me the applicant who is gonna be selling the hordes of people Councillor via a giant to ask your question of Lewes yeah thank you Chairs actually it's it's because of is it it does this kind of applications and unusual not not see something like this before but obviously it's something that doesn't need planning permission and better is really about consultation and obviously I've seen in report that you know letter sent out business Councillors you know consulted about it and there was one comment about impact of business it some it's in terms of you know the impact in terms of construction there was only 1 comma I seen about a business saying you know how to live his be made in terms of in terms of the actual impact on construction in a what what what the time lines and and who's likely to be impacted by by all this
Councillor Clark of a hearing aid the answer that recycling boilers again East he's that course most of these boilers hadn't been installed or made because the initial tranche of the mascara are going into convoys Wharf we've only just given planning permission for the first phases of that so none of it's been built yet none of it's got boilers installed so actually there there is no recycling problem with with boilers that so I'll hit that one off to start with Lewis and you want to answer those and if you want to call on Mr. Murphy of La La Feis yeah thank you Chair yes go through all of those questions in in turn
so so yes and one provider and probably would need Simon just to confirm that that is in terms of the planning application in front of us it's not a strict material planning consideration it I'm so looking at monopolies in and costs in that respect
so that's why there's no detail in in in the report regarding that I don't know Simon
if you are able to add to that
yes I ever met him yeah
have to admit that some raised hint pricing is probably not my specially stair if we perfect but if you take one if you take the at the point that we are we taking a waste heat from so chip and we're just basically providing that two convoys Wharf and just touching me of the point that he make the Chair about them
the yes the fact that we spoiled as there were many throwing away a boilers are such because it hasn't been built yet convoys Wharf so this is going in fresh you know me get you know the I spoke to the removal and disposal boilers would only be relevant if you were retrofitting into somewhere a lot these difference we're talking about whether that his be a core so the anchor scheme as we call it which is the
the ones convoys Wharf or any of the splinter spent connections that we've been looking at proposing in the feature a law those again are need of elements that I think what we're saying is that if this were to expand in the future and you were to retrofit that's when you would need to replace boilers but as far as the course gave is concerned that wouldn't be necessary and just on the pricing that maybe something I will be to have someone specifically want to you know something 10 on that unless Rob my colleague coming I do upside from Miami
I think 10 proper and thyme and I mean I I think it is of interest for as we've been told it's not a relevant planning consideration for the decision we need to make tonight I think if he only ourselves yet were able to produce a briefing on this I I think we know we should all action Louis let people know that we're doing this because it is such a significant contribution to the
that we can now look we can all make and you can make
so if if there is some some briefing you can provide and circulate to the council to officers that they can circulate to us I think a lot of us would be interested in how that is going to work in the future but 8 not something is not something that we need you to Sir scrabble around the figure now because it is not something that should affect our decision yet work
Hayes Roberts from Veolia we will not
I say this scheme we we are we are hoping then this will be a which or scheme we will be join in that particular scheme as part of the ESCo agreement with with with the developers that come on board and obviously year we can provide you the details that's regulated by the energy ombudsman a ensures that we are providing a heat a fair price and a SAMM is regulated and its price match against or the price and other other heat sources absent us passed on on a on a yearly basis basically so we can provide you all the details around the heat Troston and that what were in discussions with a lot of the developers about adopting this as part of our operating model going forward
OK that's great thank you Plymouth have you had you pass it all of the point the Clerking Council of Olivier Dre that because I've got a question from Councillor Claisse OK no no not yet still sells the ground cover yet so in terms of the ecology question so yes this was reviewed in full by ecological regeneration manner Manager and they raised no issue with the surveys or what time of year they would take a undertaken and your question in terms of which route would have the biggest impact well
Will they
it has been there are outlined in the report that were within nursery or recommended conditions that we believe that any impacts especially on trees would be sufficiently mitigated but the the preferred route would go through a park near to a recently restored lake but again with the relevant conditions we think that that we we've been advised professionally that that would could be mitigated against
that should answer that ecology points
I'd like you were asked about whether the survey the bats' lasers owner be done at the right time of year I know there but they there PC happen that they can be tricky yes so that there was no issue raised with the timing of the surveys and
they were happy with that Susanna yet
thank you I'm yet those another point Arafura about consultation and so yes
as he said so all adjoining occupiers and residents were notified by letter and there are a number of site notices that went up to and and yes we had one sort of mutual comment from relating to business an impact so during the 11 phases of construction as the construction moves along the route whichever route that might be that yes there would be an impact and that's why we've recommended the conditions for
for a construction management and yet so constructed condition for construction management and traffic management
and that would be to ensure that each phases is controlled so of course there would be some impact on businesses but it would be subject to further details and scrutiny from our colleagues in in Highways and obviously and planning to obey had a members members will have been circulated with their their the conditions in the original two reports which I I I couldn't even tell the difference between the two of them
terms and conditions you are suggesting to us how the additional condition which you circulated late which was a revision of one of them and I think it really got that but indicate you haven't Councillor shake Q had a question for Louis this
Mike Mike
the first I've done now thanks to those wondered how it happens thank you Chair it's all its return me as a founding is fantastic to see and themed shaped by and the claim that the Council's commitment to the climate emergency and it's great to he referenced at their own I have just mark the kind of like continuation to the Fifa my point is really building on Council of Olivier's our questions around consultation and Andy effect in the local policy I just wanted to flag it sounds like a lot of attention has really been a paid to the impact the have on traffic and routes and and working with Highways I think sounds great but just to say that I think it's worth building in and a lot wibble in attempts of that consultation with local residents because I think there are disruptions to route and it could be better so spot I think at the moment and think as much as he patience possible anyone the more the better I think it will make people feel at being bought long but he about that thank you
thank you yeah my only response to that really is that in condition for construction management and traffic management yeah we were acutely aware of I mean as a lot of construction happening in in the north of the borough so that's why I'm part m of that condition would say that the contractual participate in the and evidence Street car construction for him what's constrict construction for
obviously to Didcot cast their net wider and engage locally
I am in favour the disruption caused by construction of there seems no worse than what's inflicted on many of our returns by by Thames Water or Southern Gas Networks his it's week weekly they they got off the South Circular going through our ward up at the moment that's SGS I what I also wanted to ask her members a before we before you move on is I think everything we've covered so far have been general points at that apply to both the applications and it is important to remember that we're being asked to our obviously be earlier only ever going to build one of these one is their preferred route the other I presume is there as a full backing Haseley hit some sort of technical show St offering pursuing the preferred route so they have a backup and they don't had to come back and go through this stage of the process if if that disaster befalls them
so I am just going to ask you specifically any please got any questions or issues to raise that are specifically about the details of either of the routes because otherwise our our considerations for both of these applications are indistinguishable so far if if nobody has that's fine I haven't and clearly nobody no no ward councillors who this is going through the territory of and my residents who this is going past have raised any issues apart from those general ones about the disruption of digging up the road to put a big pipe in it
if nobody has nobody is indicating in the chat that they have any specific a route silly questions to to ask so we can move on to any any further discussion we need to about this
0sorry Kevin you you do
it was simply to say like Councillor Walsh had a question I think it wasn't a chap but is now some sanding over 0 sorry yes James sorry sorry I yeah your digital and I beg your pardon James no wires Chair and thank you for you forbearance I don't actually have any questions for the team but they might be able to help with the question of the officer so I'm really interesting and I agree with you that and Lewisham should be shouting about this project I am just have are not through when I was reading the technical details that is going to provide up to 30 gigawatt hours of power a year and a take out 3 thousand 1 hundred 61 tons of carbon if if this is built out as is and if his then extended that hasn't Deschanel 2 thousand 570 was I couldn't find within the report was or what how that what percentage of that is the the Lewisham's current emissions for carbon and I was wondering if officers because our policy is to get be carbon neutral how close that takes us all the cushion
the venue does anybody know or is that a calculation somebody's going to have to go by having a high I think as you just said I think we we need to make a much more coherent organised publicity package about this
at several stages of the process why I will I was tempted to ask the the Africans actually Ophelia can give us some indication again it's not strictly relevant so the planning permission there see key but if I can give us some indication of the time line over which they expect to be doing this construction that obviously there's going to be a further time before it's actually than making people's her as warm
is that something you can tell us silent or Robert
Jami set this one Simon
however this refers to appear minute okay and our aim is to commence construction
obviously on one of one of the two routes and whichever it is we're going to were obviously once we've got the planning approved hopefully we will then go into her a RIBA stage 3 design on on on the preferred route and hope that that's that's OK and then we are looking to start construction next year obviously this is all very much hanging glove with Hutchinson because we know the the convoys Wharf development is running behind schedule
so we initially had a he Tom day or 20 22 and we now recognise the convoys Wharf is probably going to be pushed back to 23 even 24 but there is this opportunity and we are in discussions with with deft London till the odd and to to provide them with some heat and in mid 20 22
however the HackerOne plant anyway I think that he's but that is promisingly soon their lease but his them better than I was hoping for and doesn't sound as if what you're doing is the critical path to all
let Lewis having having given you back to that that delay have you have you quickly jot down some calculations about how this how this worked in relation to our climate targets and so I tried to get that information in the report with internal discussions with with colleagues across the Council and again Viola might want to
to add to this but that figure beyond convoys we can't get that specific always figure right now and the problem is also Cell chip does export to air isn't Southwark as well so it's understanding those figures so although this does represent
no substantial carbon reductions which is supported by Policy those actual figures sought to the decimal point we we don't have at this stage but I'm sure it's it's will it's it's a key component component of the the Council's climate emergency strategy say and no one and I think I think that's something we can we can work out properly and can head line the publicity the way we go about their summary in one way it's going to turn a they were piping hot watering so homes in southern before they before they
have got any coming into anywhere in Lewisham and it's in Lewisham but it was a joint venture long ago and but in in another way it's quite positive because we're not we're not talking any new science here they're doing something they done before
it should work first time right OK I'm not sure what else we've got to do here
does anybody have any other points they want to raise at met now be raised in the fifth routes to Sophie we raised last things that have gone beyond the boundaries of this
Councillor O'Shea rating another hand I'd yes sorry are you are you indicating again in the chat or was that generally
OK so having sacks at through at many presentation in scrutiny and and also in Red Hook for the tonight's at papers and been satisfied by the questions are put to officers and the applicant I would like to move the recommendations as outlined in the report OK and can we be clear your well I let let's do this one at a time just so were absolutely clear which planning permission we frantic so on the first application which are forgotten the number will call it the preferred route one your let let Schumer moving the recommendation on that you could let somebody else do the other one if you want so and have we got a seconder for that please
Selby Harrogate
that recommendation on the preferred route application OK I think we still need to go through a roll call vote for that's by ICE I sense I'm gonna be able to predict the result here Jasmine could you just take over and do a roll-call vote please on the sea surface of his on the proposal to grant permission so the first application for the the preferred route
the preferred route Councillor pursuit I'm voting for that Councillor Gibbons
I'm sorry I'm voting for a Council of one of their four Councillor Clarke full Councillor organ they were for
Councillor shape
and Councillor Walsh
but certainly for thank you he didn't anymore Osper chaired Farron for for permissions being granted thank unanimous OK Go Pope who wants to move a recommendation regarding the second application Councillor Clarke you can have a go at that being black I move that we accept the second application which is the alternative route application OK Lew once second that one
having your second in our yes I right OK Councillor Ogilvie where secondly that one as well OK again we'll just go through a roll-call vote for that please so they second routes the alternative would cancel ushered I'm voting for that Councillor Gibbons on voting for
Councillor Oonagh there for Councillor Clarke form Councillor Ogilvie well for Councillor shack and Councillor Walsh place for she unanimous face Surrey's right OK well her both of those planning permissions have been granted that concludes the business of the Strategic Planning Committee thank you very much for your participation members officers and are two representatives from Veolia
if Jeremy could couple of them terminate the web