Sustainable Development Select Committee - Tuesday, 15th September 2020 at 7:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Sustainable Development Select Committee
Tuesday, 15th September 2020 at 7:00pm 

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all right welcome everyone and welcome welcome to this evening's meeting of sustainable development select committee I'd like to open the Committee by asking Members to confirm the outcome of the AGM in July and that is that Councillor Liam current should be Chair of the Committee and that Councillor of his Krupke should be vice-chair of the committee
if you agree could you please raise a hand
great thank you very much Councillor current over tea but he remarked to him and welcome everybody to the meeting of EU sustainable
relevant Select scrutiny committee action sake I'm going to read out a few are rules and protocols just sold one understands what's going on a first of all cannot welcome or any members of the public who are watching and to explain to all participants in the meeting the when you first speak could you state your name and title or so that people can understand what's going on
first of all if you remember the Committee your camera if a lesser remember the gritter sake get the camera should be switched off until it's your item on agenda or I have asked you to speak or please keep microphone muted until you invited to speak that's because all the background noises coming and we will we've all done it thus happened because we forget
and I'm asking Members to take a cue only in the chat room function so the we know order Members are asking to speak and to indicate in any other way offline if they wish to check my attention though if you get disconnected from the meeting due to technical difficulties you can use the link your sent initially to return to the meeting and for those they're interested the meeting is being webcast now it's live and a recording will be available on the Council website after its if you want to follow up on anything now first of all erm I've got apologies please any apologies
the only one I've got myself as be notified to me as Councillor STEM Roskilly who is going to be late
are there any others 6 that 16 Assistant so that's it or can we agree the minutes of the meeting held on the 10th of March which was a different Welt her all those months ago as an accurate record agreed is that agreed
agreed OK agreed thank you Councillor Krakowski
is that agreed
great Yarmouth Councillor Walsh just just to be proper for the record
OK
right or is any declarations of personal interest in items on the agenda
while I got one or a member of the bearing trust her which has been involved in setting up the growth part Neighbourhood Plan and also the issue surrounding the creation of the Railway children urban national park
any others while people here
knocked and I should just say that I actually attend and and a member of the Grove Park neighbourhood forum so an that are such a proper interest yet would have an interest to discuss yeah thank you
OK I'm just going to move the agenda rounds Capsula Walsh yet sorry my attack was coming up go ahead declaration resident of Catford founder of Catholic society felt the founder of Rushey Green Community Group founder of everything else possibly ever in Russian grinned as
but that's it with Item regard item what is currently to think that might be changing momentarily the Catford but plan stuff Urca no of Heather a request this to other people look Case's coming to speak at some point I think that erm I can ask them to make a declaration or when they come in speaking OK if that's all right with you and I just wanted to let people know about the amendments to the agenda other re moving the gender round I propose that we take her item number 5 0 where children urban National Park first
followed by responses from the Mayor and Cabinet
followed by financial stabilisation but it's and had a request for councils to put a cap for Town Centre Master planet his and with local Councillors that would that be OK with the every one apologist of officers
it's just the way exploit so can we do the items in that order it really deliberate ray dot The Head as so few of us are among the Schalke that's well or so we're gonna go in to the item number 5 which deal with children on the National Park Neighbourhood plans in environmental protection Councillor Ingleby formerly a member of this committee and who
as well as Councillor Clarke have raised this issue Councillor Ingleby can you make yourself no yes high cannot proceed chair yes if you would like to just give us a brief intro summary of why this is coming up yes anything you haven't can I yeah just declare an interest that set as I said in my submits emission I am also the Chair of friends of Grove Park nature reserve and there is not just brought we brought this to the Committee is that there's a number of bit like a perfect storm a lot of issues all happening at the same time literally some of it around the border of grow part nature reserve and some of the in the wider area of the proposed project a number of countries including myself and grow Park Councillors and Councillor current have worked on with officers starting back in February 20 19 for the idea of developing urban national park in this equal logical corridor which the Crow part nature reserve is a path I'd like knowledge thank and and have them happy the council did eventually pull the money together to continue the cordial work that's necessary at the data gathering in the corridor ecological corridor and the their surroundings of the nature reserve and with the impact of the imminence of the Local Plan coming up
and but the are conserve this the the one at the Nish Sir and there have been passing on as it says in a letter the Georgi L data for the site Mashable and importance partners onto the bodies involved need see that so the will get the local plan it important that planning counties in the future have the full data for protecting their vehicle species and the right can of National Park potential the we including the Mayor enriching the project back in February 19 of seen for this and we worked on with interim head or firm
planning in 20 19 the immediate concerns as a setting in my letter is the I'm the since there was plenty application came in almost without us almost by her without many of us have been told as Councillors
within the land that surrounding the nature reserve that application has been rejected but were very concerned about the the status of the trees in that land early original in my document of included the pictures and for copies from the application is clear the developer seemed was an impression that they could do well on tree clearance would be possible and myself another colleagues are very
funny difficult understand I this can't why there hasn't been a Tree Preservation order put on this area as a matter of urgency given the developer may want to come back and appeal and and second the then to ramp all this a further there's the dopers since Sir put of Cotgrave signed in the land that he owns which is fair enough but is quite aggressive sign saying there's no access allowed for anybody here or otherwise or called the police and actual fact there's a negotiate we understand this because I was positing this 10 years ago and negotiated the was an urn easement negotiation to allow right of way of through some of that land the crucial point though is that the UK Power Networks how should have access to their substation and that's illegal and dangerous that they can't get it in
at some stage in their land or just on the edge of it and so a Wick and given these situate and there were concerned that this still the time it's been taken with the Tree Preservation orders could as has happened in previous parts of this urban National Park corridor I when the legislate the preservation orders now that they date hasn't been strong enough and sat rogue developers have gone in and country town extremely quickly sometimes on the back of hearing about Ina May an inner meeting so we want a week where this does need looking at really really quickly
my submission just includes Sir just to help officers Members committee having dismayed my points there in the in the note that I've made there's a list of when things most unfortunately as a council haven't followed up the
the the data and the protections that we could have done in the past years and then they they the the notes further on in the Maldives written information of centred develop some of the important things that happened including tool-making over the watercourse a further round the back of firm in the Hither Green Circe a site for
important nature conservation their oldest various parts of the land in the adjoining area where things went wrong in the last two years we didn't have the data there and pick sickly to way eyes and the Chair we had to push really hard to get the her to us for the nature Reserve itself upon which have to be a return to local as a proper Local nature Reserve designating that increases the impact of that of workers on how things are viewed in the surrounding area and would certainly help protect the the protect surrounding areas from the wrong are inappropriate Sam
area by landowners and developers because the survey that's now on court they either a lot of the including in the immediate area and by the up there are first be respite she's and trees that there will be lost and my final point is no other mince be canon his on call but are not a one prestigious to question because I'm not sure but it does need like urgent by the council and since the final stage of the drilling works were done by UK Power Networks there since February the pond in the nature of has just seems have dried out are not sure whether that's everybody all utility contractors being well but are now with their something consequence of the Capoue networks work all that the traffic of that was going on bearing road of Conway's but it does need the Alan Scott our colleagues does need to look at that because Sir how net was may be leaving aside we have to get the bottom how the happen how all of us all the stakeholders can resolve this problem because if we lose our pond again were going to lose another assets ecological asset I am so there all my points of their in the in the Melbourne we just we need are the biggest use I'm the struggling to understand why what the other pressing issues offered for planning officers concerning tree preservation in any other part of the Borough given this situation and this needs doing very very quickly on the land around Crapo nature reserve
thank you very much thank you Mark should switch off the screen for now I'll be grateful about stay in and contribute or indicate if you wish to join in and I think for the benefit of the general public and people in general should just say that this issue concerns large piece of land that runs up from the South Circular to Grove Park it's a patchwork quilt of part public private parks and it's part of the Grove Park Neighbourhood Plan which has been put together under the Planning Acts 20 11 by the growth Putney but for him
and it's aim is to create an urban national park for the benefit of local residents it has some priority habitats some rare habitats for London lots of trees are lots of nature and priority species and it also includes the nature Reserve the Grove Park nature reserve itself and also the land at the back of the Ringway Centre
so I think I've some helpfully summarised at the minute people this is the land is going to become a Park and National Park but a wildlife park so this is why it's been raised because of people worried about the threat as outlined by Mark now we've got four recommendations before I put them to committee members
marks a issues have been raised with officers and I'd like to welcome the Emma Talbot's the Head of Planning who is going to respond to the issues that Mark has raised good evening Emma welcomed to the meeting nice to see you and David Syme of planning as well thank you very much for coming you heard those points I think we've discussed some of them before in other meetings so or if you could or respond to those be grateful thank you I'm not thought decks and where we're very aware of of all of these points and I think we've been in active correspondence over the last few months about an about them in all leave it to to David to take you through some of the detailed and considerations and discussions however just to give you an overview and I think I know something that who's perhaps caused some concern is just a discussion about resources available resources and prioritising workloads and it hasn't escaped me that as part of your agenda tonight you are now going to be scrutinising the the financial position that we're in and as a council and that affects all of us and it does affect planning as well so in terms of the level of requests we get we do have to balance that against what officers we have available and current workloads including our statutory duties so we have been working closely with our sort of ecology specialists to look at this site and supporting appropriate actions and also I mean we share the aspirations of the local community here to to protect this protect this site and you know very much support the aspiration for an urban national park we believe that we're putting forward a robust position in the draft Local Plan that allows the Neighbourhood Plan to move forward and make that designation we have a site here which and the the local nature reserve designation is an item on Mayor and Cabinet agenda for tomorrow tomorrow evening so that has been progressed this is metropolitan open land so it has the highest possible designation and protection against inappropriate development and I know that the requests for a woodland TPO have been reviewed by Nick pond and our own tree officer who've determined that it wasn't it wasn't an appropriate designation for this site and looking further into it then is around you know the resources to take those things further forward I mean David could probably speak to more of the detail about those considerations and so if David is here and may hand over to him at that point to just talk around the the Woodlands
TPO
just before I call David the latter point out to anybody watching us that sometimes it looks like we're not interested according to the screen that were looking at different agendas and Papers and things so we are listening but it just means that to we're not looking at the screen so please bear in mind ERT David welcome to the critic Pruskow ahead are yet XI with title yet David Symes strategic planning manager at Lewisham yes just to echo EMAS point and and counselling could be was asking the direct question about you know priorities and resourcing we currently have in the planning officer a single Tree Officer who deals with trees and pride of land and she deals with the roundabout 500 to 550 tree applications every year that is a statutory duty that she has to carry out for the Council along with that there are other statutory duties that she has to carry out consultation whenever a failing is proposed for tree applications and also high hedges she also deals with the development management side of things discharging conditions on on on various landscape items and treeless items steals with a wise enquiries from the public from councils etc so she has a huge amount on a player and I'm sure you know everybody that has had dealings with Valerie in the past recognises that she is an incredibly dedicated officer and goes above and beyond what we actually asked to do because she's passionate about the Borough and and and job it within that context that Emma and myself are trying to make decisions on the priorities and as Emma also alluded to we also get requests from all over the borough from various different community groups served from Councillors from Neighbourhood Forums again with respect to landscape Tree Preservation orders etc and again we have to take a view on the priorities we very much support the National Park and we have been working proactively with the Neighbourhood for Amanda Councillors there have been a number of protections that we have put in place so the Tree Preservation order for the former Lockman site which makes makes up part of this corridor so as soon as we were aware that the site was up-for-sale Councillor Xan and the Neighbourhood Forum Contador contacted us and we Poots a woodland TPO on now as Emma says there are a number of protections here we have metropolitan open land we have sink we have an area TPO covering the stables ground and we had the woodland TPO covering covering the former Lamont's and will now progressing or or or Nick Parndon and convince of progressing the the nature reserve designation we feel is plan as planners that that is sufficient in terms of the level of protection and given the priorities and given the resources that we have and we will continue to we will continue to refuse inappropriate development on this corridor so that that that that's the kind of position that were at the moment in terms of the Neighbourhood Plan
I think there's been an awful lot of good work and a lot of good conversations happened with the the planning team a lot of the principles within the Neighbourhood Plan including the are the National Park have made it into the Local Plan made it into the character isation study and we actually have within the Local Plan and dedicated policy to this green corridor to protect that Green Quarter in future so
I mean in terms of officers we feel that it is adequately protected when in a week we are happy to discuss it further
but it would be in in the round of of taking the kind of Curran resourcing that we have an offer into account
OK thank you very much David and of course we do recognise or the pressure of the people and the and or restrictions placed upon all of us without going having a line by line refutation of some of the things that the site is vulnerable to like to seize upon four points that are Mark has raised
and then circulated the recommendations to members and I think that her
that officers should have it as well but then first off is that recommending because the update the 20 15 Site of importance for nature Conservation review with a BAP management plan to include the priority had to to wet woodland further green sidings in time for its inclusion in the Local Plan because this from 20 15 the the sink review that you mentioned to 15 does not include the wet woodland swamp forest and willow car priority habitats we know the officers know this success because one has recognised it but it wasn't included in the sink review and it's the only Syme importance nature Conservation it's 14 acres and see only mature woodland wetland in south-east London
erm by not updating the seek review to reflect the priority habits the lack of action allowed Network Rail to destroy a large section of the sink and almost half tarmac that habitats a car park
so they were going ahead to do that and it was only the intervention of local residents the most to stop that it was the in that particular case the anything start the go further was the TPO in place and those Elms in the surface sink forest and the whole linear sick from South Circular chipset Meadows in the ecological corridor of the National Park
this significant habitat for many species including butterflies the second thing is and this is I understand where you it gets a little bit technical but please forgive me because it is important to the securing this land that we all care about 0 like a woodland TPO in enclosed area inside the nature reserve to ensure the although saplings young trees given a chance to succeed in two mature woodland and the area TPO on the triangular site either Ringway Centre to protect those trees amongst the most x scrubland to avoid extinction of habitats and species and we do know that developers have been known
to go in and remove trees it happened on the Willow tree riding stable sites there which is part of this whole area talking about part of the of the National Park they dropped down 50 yr trees that they the TPO lapsed and unfortunately those trees can't people back in that format so this is about the history of what we're worried about we're talking about recommendation 3 a survey for the implementation of a site Metropolitan importance along entire corridor I understand that we've agreed and we're very pleased for that for some of the or sites we're talking about an near the nature reserve and below that
but we're talking about the entire corridor because SMI would fall far greater protection and identify the wetlands are the priority habits another green spaces are would retain the integrity of the forthcoming Grove Park Urban national park and provide a Biodiversity action Plan Management Plan and the fourth recommendation
we agree that the Grove Park Neighbourhood Plan has been so thoroughly researched it's an excellent pan and lot of people may not be aware that includes all sorts of things designation of areas for employment and also housing and to the south of the site and so this is very important this this whole proposal isn't a NIMBY 1 and what is concerning some members of the Grove Park may be form was the delay of a very long time way before KoFID in the designation of the Grove Park Neighbourhood Plan it had to be reserved designated should been sorted within the five years that's be redesignated so we want a date set for an examination for the growth part layer of plan to gain material weight before bring you in of David I think there's appropriate just want to ask Mark
Councillor Ingleby
or if he wants to to add anything
it feel there still because I know yet another meeting to go off to not hear is Councillor Ingleby
yes that that's thank you Chairman that just reinforces the history was in my submission that I've written it points out those lapses
dear
some of the points you raised we have raised no width there with officers over the summer period and with the man and some of you beware pops up in we put up in Mayor and Cabinet back in June so it's just near wing it just needs to be a really good focus on this and given the that the local plan I know is due to is gonna go to consultation we really have to bring all this data together in these protections so we get it right this time there's no it's just there that just the deck there are too many things liable to fall off the edge with the pressure the pressure from the unfortunately it's proven now the one bad behaviour by some of the land owners some of the developers
thank you Councillor Ogilvie and not just like to ride the we've been told as Mark Castlebay stated earlier that the owner of part of the land that's part of Grove Park nature reserve
his has changed the locks and cut off the Council locks which apparently should we have access to and also for access to the Ringway Centre from Railway children walk which is the council earned responsibility so that her
signals intention alongside the her planning application that was refused and we do believe I have consulted with members before this to a point that this and Radu believe that the threats are very real David sign and if you could respond place
I have no problem at all I'll just take an attorney obviously haven't seen the recommendations but Purcell forgive me but I will I'll try to respond to them in turn just as a point of clarity in terms of Thien grail incident I would like to see that are actually are officers did a huge amount as soon as we found out about the the incident on the Network Rail land Valley Harris and Paddy from our aim the Planning Enforcement Officer was down there cannot immediately and put a stop to what was happening there and then spent quite a long time negotiating with Network Rail given that they are statutory infrastructure provider trying to effectively come up with for a plan a sensitive plan that allowed them to carry out the necessary work with though actually destroying that HaberTurk I'm happy to review the and and so look at the the upgrading of the TPOs I would again point out that we have actually looked into this and you know our our own professional ecologist and Nick pond and Valerie Harris of has actually said that it wouldn't be appropriate given the diverse habitat to put that woodland TPO or or upgrade that Eliot equal TPO into one two or a woodland TPO or so I would like to go back to NYC porn and get his professional advice on the before we move forward and maybe that can be presented to sustainable in future in terms of the the upgrading of the the sink study you know that that's study was done as you pointed out in 2 thousand 15 16 which is you know is is you know outdated but he sufficient for the level that is required for the local plan and I think we've we've had this discussion before a sustainable we are happy to look at any future and I know that there is one further what going on in more detail capacity on the corridor and were happy to review that and if there is an upgrade to the the the kind of singer that's put forward then very happy to put that in in the Local Plan and to carry out a comprehensive review of the Sing study we'd have to obviously be agreed by members Mayor and Cabinet and then and then some budget allocated to that cause we currently don't have a budget allocated to project in terms of the Neighbourhood Plan I think we we share we share the kind of frustrations or of of the delay and I think you know again as competing interest we have six neighbourhood forums and plans progressing three of which are advanced stages in are officer who spends 40 percent of his time on Neighbourhood Planning is obviously trying to cover an awful lot of ground an and I'm and some of the delays you know coinciding with the purdah period of the general election and then running into the the culvert issue that we had was regrettable but also as it is it's it's effectively trying to balance resources again and and Chris having to spend time with all six of the Neighbourhood Forums essentially but we're we want to progresses is as much as the Neighbourhood Forums we want to get our first Neighbourhood foot Neighbourhood Plan made because it would be a good step for Liu Schumann and and also for London actually that doesn't have that many so Chris has been in contact with Stephen Kenny the Chair of the Neighbourhood Forum
we've set out a timetable for him the consultation on the redesignation close to the 24th of August we've collated the the consultation responses which there was over 90 so we've looked through all of those and compelled that into the reporting documents that we require to then sand on Suu Emma for approval essentially though they were overwhelmingly positive so we don't see any reason why they shouldn't you know get redesignated and stuff and immediately after that we will appoint the agreed Examiner so we have already agreed an appropriate examiner with Stephen Kenny which we can then appoint and he can do the at the Independent examination it's was saying that there because of corvids the government has delete any referendums in until at least March 20 21 so it's unlikely that we will get that referendum can obviously console until March 20 21 but it was seeing the legislation has been altered so that once the Neighbourhood Plan goes through the examination process it will be a material consideration for applications within that boundary so that change has been made by the government to strengthen the way prior to the referendum
OK effectively knocked her response and I'd like to just to say that we do we all have the agreed objectives of securing a serpent National Park and the Neighbourhood Plan and all the other things in it my caveat is that
we you know as a council corporately we are concerned or Members are concerned that the things that have been mentioned in the past have happened and whilst I recognise or what you're saying we want to see gold-plated protections because the developers who want to build in appropriately on nature reserve and I would say for instance we wouldn't have the Grove Park nature reserve upgraded to lend Eleanor unless Councillor Ingleby and others hadn't pushed for it to be put forward do recognise it took longer because of the COVID but it took five years before that when it was first drafted as a potential Local nature Reserve so people might be confused because it's called growth OK nature Reserve Fact the Local nature reserves' a significant grading of it and that's what it's lacking at the moment we do know that it's coming and we're grateful to officers for having a started to put the foot on accelerate on that one and it's coming up tomorrow so thank you for that I'd like to thank Fishleigh put on record my thanks and other Members thanks for officers work and planning work in securing so far however I think there is a as members we still share these concerns and I've got the four recommendations that I read out earlier or Timur you happy with this arms now speaking to Timothy Andrew the clerk to the committee are can you say that you noted the recommendations and Members have in front of them I have
had OK or as any other Members wish to speak
right first of all Councillor Crosskeys first on the list I don't have recommendations in front of me I I have nothing at the minute so I can't I have no way of of if deciding and anything and finding I have to say I'm finding this very difficult because I don't and I don't know because I haven't had papers before beano before the meeting and finding some of the jargon really difficult to understand and finding it very difficult to understand the hierarchy of all the different protections are so it's very very difficult for me to make a judgment on what I should be supporting in terms of recommendation because I have absolutely I'm kind of it clueless on this really and I have no I I have message we would say I haven't got recommendations and I need something right I've read through marks e-mail very carefully but they're not a cause it's difficult to understand what exactly is being recommended and what the hierarchy of need is so if if if someone could help me with this I would really appreciate her OK well there is a great level of detail the it's in the recommendations early to can you send Councillor crops because I think it was circulated to all Members any Members not received the recommendations apart from the ways sorry there is because you sent me the planning application earlier I thought you were fully up cognizant of all issues that rabbit
M Emmet of it
and yes Chair just to note that officers haven't received the recommendations and obviously haven't had a an opportunity to prepare papers so it would we will of course respond I think David has done and a very good your being intakes me through but will review and respond those respond to those properly but just in case we'd missed anything and just to know that Woking
so I'm
Tim can you join us
there Cordelia I'm here yes propose was the recommendations sent to all the members of the committee yes he said to me at the beginning of the meeting and I sent around at that point that might be the desert that you know Members have an added opportunity to see it yet I will but I sent out to send it through to again Councillor across Sky
so let alone have it now you it's it's simply or condensation of Marks what marked so so it's doesn't contain anything different substantially different it simply for clarity for the purposes of the meeting in the same way that when we have a meeting we make recommendations at the end of the meeting and they're not always a written down on the paper in a format we can decide for we'd like to do their sole or somebody quite race something can I ask that he questions that you so that I can get some clarity yes of course and OK so first question is I'd like to understand if we could if TPOs are not if the Evora Ecology Officer is suggesting that TPOs are not suitable for this particular site or apart visiting aside then what would what would be the best protection that we could offer this piece of land and how you know so so that actually we don't have to go through all these different things we just go for the one that's actually got the best hierarchic hierarchical protect protection and how quickly we can put that in in place so that actually we don't end up having to do all these other things we just have one thing that protects the whole whole land because I seems to me to be a hierarchy protection because that's one question I'd like to understand whether the damage that was done by Network Rail on and the it and any other service provider that has to have access to that site would have happened anyway whether you had the protection or not and whether this is just one in as an a
or are not a thing about actually making sure that we put we protect this area any way whether that whether it would have been damaged I don't know I just don't know the answer to that and the other thing is about funding would this be something that the local councillors could get together and make sure that we got funding through the barren end CIL fund because it's cross ward and whether that whether you could apply for that to actually get funds needed to do the best possible solution to the and to to protect Xanthe you know for good rather than all these different tiny little bits of protection I I just like to understand that a little bit better thank you OK I'm or her return of justice those summer Royston which is a big piece of land with many different owners so that's reason why it's complicated because they are all under different ownership
indifferent deeds transfers access so each one has its own awed thing and you know that the a planning is like westerly with fog sometimes you can make go one way promoted go another way and I think I refer of take them as detailed in this book there were a lot says we with this is what we want to stop this is the whole point of this is to stop the Ad Hoc Our seemingly ad-hoc nature because we were running to put fires out metaphorically or different parts of the whole site for the last 10 years I mean the own if it toed a disabled riding school nothing's been put there since and now they put an application for disabled riding school one are without I've got to be careful what I say because I'm in public but I've just stated that as a fact
now you can draw conclusions you will from that and that society 50 trees chopped down so ostensibly there was protection there before so what we're trying to say is we need these protections and we do disagree with officers at some point and if it's a matter of resources then it's a matter of resources but are we actually think that separate then let's debate the what protections are needed given that an applicant has changed the locks on Council you know access and so the Ringway land and to the nature reserve to prevent access of Members of the nature reserve Members of the Council that is a cause for concern so that will give you an indication of why reward sorry to continue
Emma Talbot thank you Chair I mean
if I just I won't necessarily do them do them in in order I mean I think what I word just agree with is that this is hugely complex and I think Chair you early hip and on the heady you know it's a it's a big area with lots of different land ownerships and
we work within the planning system that doesn't always fit every scenario perfectly so we look for the tools that we that we have to give the appropriate protections and I just want to be just really reassure people that the best protection that you can have from inappropriate development is for something to be designated as picnic the politician open land which is the equivalent of green belt in London and that is what this site is designated as we are recognising this as a as an Urban Green corridor in the Local Plan and we are very supportive of of the Neighbourhood Plan I've been involved in in some of the meetings a while ago myself it is a good it is a good plan and it's good to see the Local and the Local support for that and again I just want to I think David de cover it incredibly well but in officers have and continue to work incredibly incredibly Hobbs this time across the Balmer but including an in this area as for the question about the damage done by Network Rail would have happened anyway
it's difficult to know but to me it was
I think
I'm not sure that they understood what the land was and what they had permission to do and what they didn't I have I doubt whether a designation would have stopped it and as David said Valerie and and Paddy acted immediately once we were aware ref recognising that so it may have happened anyway but it's always and difficult to know in terms of the funding and via and CIL I mean it's you know this could well be something that if the community decided that this was a priority for them and and how much it cost you know instil in some way is very much community led what I would though says we know that the instil process has been delayed because of covert we have one officer what we have one and a half officers who deal with and CIL both of whom for the last five months have been working onto our volunteering doing shielding so they have not been in the planning service to undertake this so we are we are delayed and that is the that is the unfortunate reality of of where we are at the moment and I would love to come here and give you the reassurance that this is something that we can pick up quickly and this is something that we can find funding from but I would be misleading you because I cannot eat we cannot underestimate just how difficult things are at the moment with the financial position and some of the difficult decisions that we're having to take and I think we'll have to take away though the point around someone changing the locks on Council land of sea that goes beyond planning and but I know that pull more is is on the call so he will be aware and we can follow up on that tomorrow and if that is a council land issue David I don't know if you've got anything to add around sort of the alternative designations that have been that have been looked at you've been have had those discussions with Nick we mainly to seek we may need to seek expert advice on that
I think I think so I'm not because I would agree it's hugely hugely complex and in some cases what we're talking about is upgrading existing designations of TPOs area TPOs up to woodland TPO and and again there is a very nuanced and subtle difference there and an and again you know having reviewed that when Nick for some of the he doesn't think that's appropriate but we can't get more advice on that and we can we can seek his can of advice internally and I think I would add with with the can networkrail is very difficult with Network Rail because they are a statutory provider and therefore they don't actually have to inform us if the have to cut down trees even if they are TP old they are the they tend to do so because of you know the kind of public relations type of approach by in terms of legal status they are not obliged to tell us if the if they need to cut down protected trees on on on their land and so whether it would have happened anyway I suspected my have what we did do was a soon as we were notified by the Neighbourhood Forums and and some of the Councillors we we acted very quickly in an and dare persuaded them to stop work and and trying to negotiate can a position where they were doing it very sensitively I think for me that is the cut of to appoint up work that needs to continue along these kind of corridors where you know the Neighbourhood Forum and and the community are very proactive and providing us with the intelligence and then they would weaken we can act swiftly on that but I but again once we once we review the recommendations we can provide some further detail
Kurt thank you very much for that ACoP Council of the folly indicated a wish to speak and areas as well as be put before us
the organ solemn scrolled through fast out apologies Councillor Clarke then
carried thank you Councillor added Farani thank you Chair HRA South woke
and while I was going to make the point that Metropolitan Metropolitan Open Land if I can say it is not a full protection you can build on metropolitan open land it doesn't give protection to trees or biodiversity and in fact the Yan developer at the Willow Tree site tried to and designate the sink in 2 thousand 11 and so the site can be levelled the SINC designation can be challenged and removed so that is not a perfect solution
I think on this side is important because of access is access for schools the GP surgery uses it for health walks it's a very important and increasingly important area of land especially under corvid were talking about having green spaces for people to enjoy and unit the day you can see immediately how quickly it can be damaged the Network Rail damage was significant and it needed significant action to prevent that and the greater your protections the more likely you're able to challenge and stop things happening before they happen as well now I know this very well because on the Willow Tree site they I got a call from residents telling me there was a problem and I ran down and had to save some trees but unfortunately already many had been cleaned cleared and the developers were slowly undermining the site to undermine the sink and I am very grateful to Valerie Harris and officers who of great support then and the police actually because we called the police in on that one but it has been a continuous fight for 10 years and that's why I feel that this is so important that we get further protections they actually tried to spray pesticides on the site to kill we have some of the very rare butterflies the white let her butterflies we have some very rare recipe she's on the site these need proper protection now we can't say about resources I'm sorry that's just not an excuse since I have been a Councillor for 10 nearly 11 years this has not been for given the full priority it should have been given so resources over 10 years can't be an excuse we also passed a climate climate emergency motion and we said we wanted to protect our green spaces and prioritise the climate and this is Biodiversity this is trees as his climate this is whether we are going to put our money where our mouth is and our full commitment behind the environment and behind climate change because this is a very big part of it and these developers and made their intentions as several already circling the site they've met their intentions very clear now we have London Wildlife Trust we have national natural England supporting this site saying it's very important and also I'd like to very quickly point out what the National Trust has said
it has said the key strategic aim of delivering connected nature areas and in an urban national park is very much aligned with the Trust's ambitions for improving the state of nature enhancing urban green spaces and linking access between urban green spaces and the countryside in particular the trust supports the proposal to create a world class linear natural parkland nature trail to realise the Railway children urban National Park vision this has got national support and is seen as of national importance and I feel that we need to put our resources there we have some IRB's MCL money coming in 290 thousand I think from a development in Grove Park we need some of that to be put to resources for a full sink review we should be reviewing our nature on that site the reviews are out of debt we need the review
we need an area TPO and a clarity I understand Councillor Crowe's Sky this is extremely complicated I've spent 10 years trying to get my head round it and I'm still confused in some of the areas but an area TPO is slightly underneath a woodland TPO which gives even stronger or protection if we can't have a woodland TPO please at least can we have a full area TPO that covers all of the trees on the urban national park and make sure that we protect the whole site we need the Local nature Reserve the this is no good Metropolitan Open Land is not enough to protect it can be built on we need it to be designated as a Local nature Reserve this should have been done by the Council many years ago it's residents that are pushing for this and we should have done it already and this it's not the our current offices is at fault here as officers in the past that haven't done this so I do appreciate your in a difficult situation but this should have been done years ago the sinker view and then we also need that the site of Metropolitan importance and Greg Clark will earn so
thank you Chair this is another
are essential
thanks thank you Chair I think have if I'm sorry to older if it occurred as everybody so through
trying to move the meeting on Councillor over Frawley for good year crap for sale when I was Chair of Council had to be justly visiting is ever talking about and I was so impressed and one who Coca-Cola the canal of its does it place no no part of my piece in France would like that which is called Paradise
and it is two very good advantage of many many people
see that's 8 that's woodland as I've seen it I do not think there are other similar
Woodlands is obvious London you have to go to the limit or took them but this one took them and not inner city areas so as a grip privileges I became an advantage to have this not live on it
I'm very happy that to go up by Councillors
and group or community are taking this was seriously it's not just to grow park is for Lewisham I think Emma is right by saying that the issue is complex but a capital it is urgent because you have all kinds of activities taking place now with the developers and eating good democratic days when you had a progressive government look authority through the panning Authority behalf influence or will happen in their local authority area the current government the good war are more like a kid privilege and enhance profits for the developers to make the right Riggan brought sheet art of older people is in the news all the time and away now to our own estate is
getting within our borough here of developers banged his of land sit on it and to make it to accumulate and current trend is to give more and more power to developers
I don't care about the people out because they don't care about the environment the only thing they care about is how to maximise their profit
I think we ought as a duty to London Borough of Lewisham to do all we can to protect to to protect this resource because one is lost is lost forever and fitted the original would not forgive us so I'm saying to you cheer a member of the committee that's what together with the officers to ensure that we not let this slip by thank you thank you very much Councillor fronting his lot to respond on one point that her Louise raised about what had happened in Emma addressed that I do believe that if it the Local nature Reserve for example fizzing nation had been included and other stronger protections a few when a Network Rail checks on the surrounding land these things come up on the outcome of which databases that the idea of what we could giggle I can't remember what it stands for an out but it's basically database kept to shovel the sites of importance and a network Road are flashed up on a few more alarm bells should have rung when it when they realise that to do that vital work to make the trains run earn so but that's a moot point with they have just ignored it or not I don't know but the thing or more there is a greater protections there are the less chance and people will realise that the having God it's not worth than trying to take that land on for the community on or indeed more importantly the statutory protections that the Council is responsible for enforcing and putting in I miss any other Members wish to speak or any any additions to that I think I'd like to go to the recommendations we can read them out the not the reasons because we've been debated those but the summary says for and the first one recommendation 1 is updates the sick review with the BAP management plans include a priority habitats of wet woodland for Hither Green scything sink in time for its inclusion in the Local plans
the recommendation to is putting in place a woodland TPO in enclosed area inside the nature reserve and an area TPO on the Triangle site beyond the Ringway Centre or other various reasons for protection are in there as well a recommendation 3 is a survey for the implementation of a site of Metropolitan importance or less them I along the entire corridor to protect the wet woodland chalk grassland rivers ponds nation woodland on all the other greens sites and then the final recommendation is entered David and Emma have kindly
her explained that they're doing their best to accelerate that is elbow Planning's agree the re-designation greed designation immediately and set a date for examination for GP and Peter going material weight we know that you'll press start oppressing those buttons but we just wanted him express our views committee that this should happen so having said that can I ask the Committee to vote on this item now that we can now move on all those in favour of the four recommendations but I think we do a show of hands in the screen for now
1 2 3 4 5 are owned there's no none against there Councillor Walsh's detained by another meeting so just in case people wondered why he is not here so that is those recommendations are agreed and can I thank Members and obviously thing officers for their patience or in dealing with our queries and their persistence in this matter
no I didn't mention it in public but re agreed as a committee we can have a a short adjournment because it got couple more items I just want Sir Ken Tim come back on to a
I just confirm this yes so I there's a five minute German then chamois can you stop the webcasting please and I'll can explain first that erratic at yet for the public that those going to be a five minute German for people to get class of water and anything else they need to do and then we can resume the meeting quite promptly so with that if you could now in the webcast and Q or suspended
glut of how that work in the financial stabilisation next OK then the cat from Masterplan after that
moved around
she was David Austin aware that he wrote David
evening evening mindsets are Catherine it David was covering housing Select Committee this evening so here already well her welcome I inject underscore Henry start leave him just ask you to jump right in with the summaries and of that really flow of his off members as I chart now and come back in when you call me
be ready to take lesser could you repeat your and your known that recorded her certainly it Catherine in it and I double the notable too excited service just want to make sure that it I thought that was actually to be sure but I thank you
can I confirm or you you want you need to start or we will now be having started ever gonna be counted in and then I'll call you thinking you're ready to go
right welcome to a resumption of the adjourn Sustainable Development Committee I'm not going to read out all the things that we said at the very beginning of the meeting jump straight in to what's Item number 7 on the agenda the financial stabilisation budget and we have Catherine need in the Finance team they are going to address the sytem Catherine if you could
switch on your audio and video and can you hear me clearly yes Chair thank you and governance committee and the floor is yours but he thanks very much chef the paper you had before you I'm going to introduce and it's worth saying that we also have some e-mail teams we've got Sookie from E and T as well as a number of other officers if there are some specific queries will take them will take them as appropriate in terms of the nature of of questions from the group
the report is with you really to set the financial backdrop and to help the Committee with the understanding of the wider context ahead of the detail proposals which officers will be bringing to this committee in November for your review
as much as we do and have plan prudently in respect of the financial stewardship of the council and the use of public funds the current circumstances they present themselves contain more uncertainty and challenge than usual and this is across in four separate France firstly we've got the Code of pandemic the impact that's her to date and what we know will be the ongoing and long-term impact that that will bring we've got in year overspending which is primarily driven by costs and demand and population growth we've got vast uncertainty in public Fund funding and finance and particularly with local governments for example we've had delays to the comprehensive spending Review the Local government Finance Settlement the Fair funding Review and as well as the business rates review which leaves us very uncertain as to level of funding we can receive in future years and finally there is just the broader economy covert as we know has centres into recession a deep and meaningful recession which many say will take more than 10 years we've also got great sits in the impact of that
as I said or or prudent financial management means that we would be able to manage with one of those and most likely cope with two however to address all four at once leaves us in a particular situation that we've seen not even during a decade of austerity which is something else that we've managed throughout the last 10 years the port primarily covers two areas firstly it addresses the in-year pressures and risks and the action being taken around those and secondly it sets out our medium term financial strategy and the funding gap that will need to be met
India the focus is really on being providing critical services in response to Covid and managing service overspends in total pressures and Ellie 20 in injury to covert and 17 million for 4 other pressures reporting and lobby into government continues on the first and management action has been taken on the second
management action to date has identified over 5 million pounds of in-year savings which will reduce the level of overspending further
the Medium Term financial Strategy sets out the assumptions and identifies the need for us to bring forward at least 14 and impels of cuts over the next three years the majority of these being next year 24 million the report talk to the approach officers are taking to identify draft proposals to avoid salami slicing or siloed working this is through the generation of themes which will encourage collaboration across services and look for opportunities to transform services as well as reducing budgets what we're doing is we're focusing first on the needs of the community then working that Beckham's the priorities of the Council and then finally back into the operational say arrangements so trying to trying to work out that way rather than starting with a a cuts target and pushing it through in sounds that this committee in its focus for example one of the themes is around assets an are approved a more efficient use of assets which I know has been an area of of highlighting focus for this committee and some of the other themes will contain elements which the single Development Committee is particularly focused on
progress towards the end of the report we set out the timetable now the time table ring sets out the process will be using and is trying to answer questions now on the context and the approach that officers are taking to bring forward detail cats proposal in November then subject to decisions and their in Cabinet in December and the announcements from the chancellor in the autumn budgets and the Local government Finance Settlement in December it will enable officers to make any final changes in January before presenting the budget for approval to Council in February
that really is the purpose and the structure of the report and I'm taking it was lengthy that it's been read and and really open the floor for for questions to either myself or or to other officers present thank you Chair
thank you very much for the summary of food erm
can I just ask members indicated a Councillor crutch scree her you have the first question so please go ahead
An just very quickly I just like to know that in some point 1 point 3 you've got over director in your spend reduction for 20 20 to 21 are kind of like to know what how you manage this 1 million on their in the Housing Regeneration Environment because that's split specific to this committee so kind of like to know what what that actually involved St here and can am I taking questions individually or with your first once-over take this one first place I can the the in year it's important to note that the in year although they may be turned in Newcastle in your savings what they effectively are just in your management actions so it's it's no it's not a permanent change or a permanent effect it is simply in your action has been taken in line with the financial Management framework where Directors and Executive Directors have simply made choices around services the the 1 million pound reduction is made up of a number of items and they they range from this small small underspends or positive budget that haven't been used and the now going to be held in effect held vacant so what we've got is due to Covid one of the one of our abilities and in terms of folk some business critical services as not all other services at the same level of activity so we've got an opportunity in certain areas where activity levels have been less than expected to effectively hold back budget so there's a number of there's a number of measures that are set out in 7 12 I believe as I will check that which just described the nature of those those action so it's holding vacancies where they have arisen it's small small budgets that have not yet been accounted for committed that can be held whether we're not supporting business critical services and the like and it is quite a long list if I'm honest of of small and and and different items which which are the sort of short-term actions that can generate efficiencies in the year
OK thank you very much I'm I've got to Preston's one is to use the common parlance rather than the technical term in the view of senior officers is there any danger of the Council being forced into special measures and intervention because of a budget crisis
now in the initial towns' the the Council the Council has managed its finances prudent prudently we we have reserves of a level which has said artily introduction with you know would be sufficient to manage sort of one or two of those major shocks to the system what we what we can't do is use up those reserves to try and absorb the effect of all four of those without taking further action now the empty APHIS the Medium Term financial Strategy has been sits using assumptions that we're confident of and if if we can reduce the in year overspend and if we can achieve the savings then that will that will ensure that we remain financially sustainable
her traffic you answer my point monarchs question riches on the reserves corn clearly
any other members with questions for the thing I know that Members have had separate briefings on this and it clipping fully briefed so it's not the now probably don't need to ask any more questions the for Zanni thing anyone wants to officially put on the record that's why us question about reserves and whether we are endangered be put in special measures because we get a lot of that questions or allegations colloquially from people increase your they hear something so it's very important that we the state-backed Earthjustice a final question in what were choose
where did you see that the hardest hit services
this is that some might be quite a difficult question to answer because every everywhere suffering but which you think is into we really have to look out for are they there isn't an answer to that now and in part that's for me sort of RE described the process what we've tried to do this is in the past this been numerous ways of approaching effectively tats where whether it's looking at taking proportion of the cats and simply allocating across services whether it's to look for services with the largest budgets to then produce the largest levels of savings that's that's not the approach being taken here instil we've come up with themes and what we're hoping is that through through a morsel transformative and sort of redesign process we can we can stop simply squeezing any one service in particular to to answer question in another way the 40 million pounds is sort of circa 17 percent of the net budget and 16 17 percent of the net budget so in effect that still leaves us with 84 percent of all of our budget to deliver services I appreciate it very hard to have a glass half-full approach in these incredibly trying times but if even on the achievement of the full 14 pounds it leaves us with 86 percent of our budgets in tact and really in trying in in designing those themes were looking for the collaboration and the approach that means that that no one service in effect has to bear a disproportionate brunt the over the other reason for aligning them to the priorities is effectively to ensure that that the resources are being used best to deliver the Council Council priorities
were Kilvaxter very positive along with a hot cloth the glass half-full ever Trudon them I was going to ask you what's the good news answer that
sound sound like them or or other any other questions of of Katherine from members to St round now so well thank you very much for your time and your patience and just before you go actually out as playing for time because I just wanted to mention one thing that the sustainable Olympic Committee has raised the frequent in the past and that is about the consolidation of all enforcement functions that the Council House and I know that that was partially achieved in the past the not totally and I think that that will be very something we would perhaps ask questions about them in the coming months because usually has been to be falling as one problem this it's in a community there's other problems and they all concern enforcement so and what would you respond to respond to that
I was on fares but I do know that we've got and we had we definitely had put more tarmac on the court and the call so thing wish yet to supplement my answer I invite them City so I'm again one of the themes is around service integration instead of looking to bring services together it you know in more efficient and streamlined ways
and I know that that Members are also forming you know groups around some of these themes to feed into that so I'll make sure that that's fed back to officers that that this is what Members are thinking of but it is exactly that type of I can see today that is exactly that type of thinking that the falls into these themes for gourmand Tom McCourt has put his hand up and a toll if you could make yourself physical and I agree that I chair Bridgend had some occult considerable public realm fur Kevin sheer cafes quite what we are looking at that the official services I understand a lot of you was halted because of Covid some them for people in the Council so that's one of proposals we're looking at Folly Eggsy course director about how we join up over social services the intelligence deployment the tasking I'm sorry I think I said ever were many authorities have seen a more effective and efficient target service adjusting the real problems so that's how it will work in public realm but also with posing to work with colleagues across the board so that was psychotic cafes why that should site should be feted I'd discussions and going forward OK thank you that so encouraging to hear that thank you very much
average time and no further questions so are Catherine thank you very much thank you good evening
right now we are moving on to the next item 0 just always one more we missed out or I moustache or so responses from mayor and cabinet which was
from way back in March was due to rear due to that March and the Committee made several recommendations are changing the draft local plan to strengthen the protections of pups and one of the key phrases was 20th century pop's Higher pubs Bill intensive section those before and its glassy that's been included by officers in the plan and believe me I know that I sound like a
a bore on this issue but when your local pub The is under threat you'll be pleased to rely on our local plan which will enable you to vote against inappropriate development so are just that an item on agenda of lighter mentioned that and a thank officers for that inclusion okay so now we go on to item number 6 which is the Catford Town Centre Master Plan we have Paul Moore and other officers on hand to answer questions I'm going to hand over to pool I think we've got a presentation and lasting about 10 minutes hand
if you could introduce yourself and officers when you first speak and the floor is yours happy to do that sir thank you and good evening members so pull more I'm Interim Director of region and inclusive growth for loathsome and to colleagues joining a suit this evening Sarah Walsh who Members will know his son project managed much of the work on Catford the in recent months if not years and Deborah if Amini it's here from teen Catford an ESA and a cover of the engagement East as well any questions on that look and it was March Chair when we will ask together are on Catford and much has happened since not least to which I I've got a pair of glasses that were that's anything to do with the actual work on Canford on an I'm not too sure yet larch work has been done during that time are key intro brief but would please to bring you the product of the work over the summer and there were really really two main areas we want to focus in on the current draft of the Town Centre Framework members you'll have seen the seen that grow over the last couple of years have been involved in several workshops around that but this is really just a key step bikie stage whereby we can take this into the public domain subject to discussions of Mayor and Cabinet more night but we bring it to you forced for any common observations on clearly that sets out a 15 20 year vision of walk Hatford could be in future and potential and it's really important to be working in real time now and Members you get size this about the practical realities of regeneration so alongside them with the Framework we secure agreement more nightmare in cabinet for some selective investments an agreement to push forward with the Phase 1 programme some early delivery so owing to pick up on that that surround the the Catholic constitutional and some some work to the rear of that Thomas Lane yard and also though look at a project we worked on over the summer for some improvement improvements to the station Link so and I'll hand over to stare at Sara on that point are come back to you for any questions downstream Sarah
thank you thought I'm going to share my screen
if there's allows me to
can you see the screen
yeah
you may need to be upgraded there to present a status I think Tim what to do that but there are yellow I found a way
so
Paul just covered the Overview and we have very little time so tonight I was asked not to present the document it's taken that most viewer are familiar with it have had the opportunity to download the link are I'm here to just give an overview of what has shaped it and how it is structured
so firstly it's a vision document it's the luck and with the local plan but it goes into further detailed in the local plan illustrating how objectives for the town-centre could be co-ordinated and delivered and because it's a vision document I'm here to briefly touch on how it's been shaped to take the reader on the journey through steps in stages of pulling together all the work that has been done including you know considering the extensive engagement and ideas that have come from local people a number of priorities have have become very evident and these are that the quality of the environment is important local shops and businesses in retaining
vitality in the town centre is important and fundamentally a step change in the quality of the public realm across the town centre is needed and wanted and these key priorities which really have become much stronger as we've synthesise all the work that has been Dunning and refined work and imposed in baseline research this has been translated into
what we want is formed three pillars for town-centre white transformation so these strategic objectives for a greener and healthier town-centre of vibrant town centre and are inaccessible town-centre has been further translated into more specific guidance for individual projects and sites and guidance for individual projects and sites link back to priorities of local people so this has been a substantial addition to place making principles which have been in the public domain for some time and everyone is familiar with this this basic block structure for the town centre and the placemaking principles that have shaped this block structure or so we've added the strategic The strategic town-centre objectives along with a summary of the placemaking principles at the front of the document to take the reader on the journey from the town centre wide principles set out in Chapter Two to more detailed guidance for main opportunity sites
that are in Chapter 3 of so what you see in the block plan the core components
the same we have
more detailed guidance for the the key regeneration sites the sites that are in third party ownership and the sites that are in Council ownership we have also added in Chapter 3 I'm
a more information on a vision for the station area and improving safety accessibility and place making around the stations and how that connects into the town centre and we've added some more information on Rushey Green as a corridor
as context for four additional intensification that is in line with the strategy for them the key regeneration sites and more importantly the opportunity as the framework team would describe it as thickening the High Street by introducing lanes at at the back of the High Street that Lincoln to new putt local spaces
if so that those are additions to this diagram that you see here
and finally chapter 4 of the draft framework document shows likely phases in and how this development could come forward and in particular this vision
it was important that it's deliverable and that we understand what has been blocking Catford potential what sites have dependencies how can we
co-ordinate development so that we have optimal development across all the sites and deliver
town Centre Wide ambitions so this this this Chapter gives clarity and coordination to achieve our ambition for the town centre
and in this diagram here there's a phase 1
around the stations and the case for constitutional club but these are examples of areas that do not have dependency on on development occurring on adjacent sites but they would fit into and support a vision that would come forward later so that moves me on to
phase 1 Thomas Lane yard at the last SDC and March we actually already covered this item up the suggest a reminder that I think it was actually that day it was announced we were one of nine in the good growth portfolio that were awarded good growth funding and this is actually quite a key project is the second largest and quite a complex project where we are proposing to retain and restore an
community asset which is the one of the oldest buildings in Catford
a cut kept the constitutional club and create an interlinked public realm and introduce new development as affordable on employment space at street level and the potential for new homes on the upper levels 50 of which which could be affordable
and in this yard that opens up the site and connects into the surrounding core of the town centre there's also an opportunity to support key asks for market traders and to to animate the space to retain local businesses in Catford give them better facilities so that is a summary the good growth fund to support social infrastructure and inclusive regeneration it was very competitive and this project was considered to deliver on all of those objectives the second opportunities around the stations there actually have been a number of studies over the years on how we can improve the station environment but we were able to evaluate all of that and demonstrate how it fits into a town centre wide strategy
now
there are elements within a vision for the station area that are fundable and deliverable now in the short term so what this show this identifies that scope the principal objective is to improve safety and accessibility so the first element is to widen the pavement on the north side of Catford Road to widen the subway underneath Catford Road to your improving the east-west and North
sorry east-west and north-south links there
there is an additional opportunity to then create more links and movement for people with the introduction of some sort of Deck structure over the river now the pert point of that is if you widen the pavement on Catford Road and you create this green retaining wall it takes a little bit of space so we wanted to give space back by creating a deck opposite the railway entrance for people to cross over the River enjoy the river
and just be a little bit further away from traffic the second deck is an opportunity to revitalise or or activate the disused Victorian building railway building it could be a café or something like that and it's also a location where there could be an additional entrance to the platform so it's a landscape proposition to activate the space and start to create this kind of park like setting finally as I mentioned there are opportunities for additional access points to the station platforms which just opens up this whole area makes it more accessible for the communities that integrate to the east and the west
and then finally there is also an opportunity for some secure covered cycle storage so that is the the scope now moving on my presentation is concluded now and my guests in summary of tight I I hope that we've pulled together a document that brings people on the journeying clearly communicates the ambitions for the Town Centre there is a lot of rich illustrative material in the document that brings that to life and it is on the website for understand it I'm going to hand over to a governor I think at this point yet
thank you for so my name is Deborah family in on the project manager 13 Catford with those of you who don't know what was that Liam 0 sorry welcome
thank you very much
so for those of you that don't know team Catford we are a group and we will local we all live and in the borough of Lewisham and we are leading on engagement consultation and Placemaking on behalf of London revolution cause of this problem put so over the last three and a half years consulted quite extensively and we've held over 134 events we've got comments actual comments over two and a half 2 thousand and at the moment and we've done various things place making the Bence like cat big market be good festival and work week working with local primary schools and interviews from Catford and call which the online platform and also and the House of Catford very recently the House version and all of that intelligence has been used to to inform and the for the framework so as of last week we has a quite robust plan in her kind of in in place around engagement but in terms of the rule of 6 announcement we now operating in quite different circumstances and it's different for us because and those of you know we like to go out and have a team captain roadshows which is if you can get more than two people together
will bring tea and biscuits and will basically talk to anyone anywhere of course that has changed somewhat now so in terms of the engagement track in how we move forward we are poised to proceed and cautiously will be at very cautiously and probably start with with virtual engagement we do accept that not everyone you know we'll have access to the internet and we wouldn't want to be accused of of only favouring people that they'd have that access but at the same time we do have issues around face-to-face consultation but what we are supposed to do is just proceed cautiously and listened to the feedback that we get from people wondering about in capital is that we're very good or pivoting and listening to what people say and proceed on that basis
OK
it said that the presentation
thank you very much Paul and the thank you very much Sarah and Deborah even with this project for a long time and exploit nice to see your faces because you must retain so much knowledge of the whole project so please don't get another job anywhere else and stick with us for as long as possible of course shall freekeh another job we hope we don't so I just OK to hand over to other Members I just wanted to thing and our hearts some strategic questions at the end and the first one I've got is Councillor crapped Sky and then a Councillor or Franny and encapsulates
and as the I'd like to say that this is just a fabulously Soviet can't and thank you so much for all the incredible hard work and passion and no Shire kind of joy that actually gone into this because it it radius and mistakes are thank you so much I'm and I have to declare an interest honesty I'm a Catholic Dresden and I'm one of the cap for councillors so variousness and but I do have to to questions and I'm I'm not sure how how will you be able to answer them if you could kindly offered me a flavour of what you think so my first question is do you think there's any danger of the GLAS good growth fund being withdrawn and due to the budget problems faced by the GLA if you know anything about the backstory about that it be no any information then please let me know and also in on page 10 and 2 point 8 of the supplementary agenda
and you talk about the realignment of the 2 8 2 0 5 and and the work with the AFL to reach agreement on matters of technical detail and I just wondered if you could kind of flesh that out a little bit because it's a little bit vague I don't really know what you what your kind of alluding to in terms of
technical detail and the DFT and where and how the hell are unwell so in terms of like timescales and where we are are we in a holding pattern with them 0 had you where are we in the kind of pecking order is is is there any more information you can kind of give us just to so that we have any sense at all of how what the momentum is behind this project and how how it's going to move forward thanks very much
children
I am happy to have a first go on him Forum 7th coming possibly on just on the Sir as had the probably the most recent discussions with the July in terms of the officers facing the project but I'm having other discussions with some of the Strategic ring holders and I don't see any signs of this point in time Councillor Grabsky of any variation to the commitment around the jail a good growth funding I'd be very surprised by her that on a course evening from Sara but but please do not are should shake your head Sarah
the quite the reverse I think what we're receiving his pressure to get on and sign a that's what they would like to do and that's the best vehicle for securing outcome that we'd all like to seek out the quirky serrated you want to add
I've seen no sign of of losing of the funding being at risk and I have meetings with them this week I had meetings a few weeks ago there King to move on develop the brief for procuring a design team
I am working on a community consultation strategy to to start developing plans for that site
can he perhaps about just go one stage further and I don't want to overstate Catford has I'd say good and positive attention are from a number of the senior managers there and obviously and you'll have your own connections in in political space Lewisham is well connected in in in the GLA but in officer terms I'm seeing I think it's a E it's too too much to say genuine affection
after the Catford space and this has a profile that were keen to obviously exploring splitting exploit further members on the on the road and you don't meet me to wax lyrical to tell you members about the situation tier fell and a massive massive impact that they have had on their funding in the current negotiations with central government
I'm saying that Iran of Catford scheme but also physically on on on on Bierley so we have been a really live dialogue with with here fell are supposed to most I'm directing I want to say to give Members assurance is evening is in agreeing on the master plan framework hopefully tomorrow night a Mayor and Cabinet and the associated Phase 1 projects are I will I will do my utmost to go into bat to ensure that the 5 stays as a priority within the work streams within tier fell that's not me dodging a direct question councillor Trotsky I don't have a time line
if I could provide that with certainty I would give it you seething or put it in the report I do think the the the the if I say by product of the the package with you the seasoning is it gives officers the ability to call others out Network Rail would be another round transport improvements and I'm sure we might be in some of that but it gives us leverage in that space to say come on here are some of the loosens here some the areas we need to move forward on and I'm certainly keen to do that members
they won Kanye I don't know when the team will actually be mobilised again at TEFL I just know that the last communication I had with one of the lead project officers was that they're fully committed to the ambition for Catford and they support the vision for realising the road
other than that we don't really have control or knowledge of what's happening you know to the whole portfolio of capital projects but that is specific commitment coming from the team some can I do that them because colloquially I understand from here from other people
the budget deficit budgets being slashed and that the auteur 5 realignment is now one of the agenda
can you actually reassured by saying that is the opposite or an so so all all of I cannot give you an a cast-iron assurance he this evening that the funding is is absolutely 100 percent secure Councillor Khan you wouldn't expect me to do that I'm wheelie we we are moving through you know times of a great servant uncertainty I think I think my previous point applies the on on on the on the core substantially funding for the road are that will also have her they have tea Cheann there
I think we do put in the paper
that you know that that there were assurances Councillor received previously about that core funding to enable at Hatta expenditure sizeable capital expenditure one of the recommendations that I'm making to Mayor and Cabinet tomorrow I think it's the last recommendation on the Framework report are ease is really around hurry encouraging officers to step forward into the TEFL DFT space and seek those very same assurances actually and to use the master plan use the framework as a vehicle for accelerating some those discussions 0 or I I'd I don't want to think about on the down side would I'd like to be able to do is represent the positive energy as you fill due flagged earlier with another colleague that here's what we can do are and dare I say it others talk about what we want be for gone if that investment in come forward but we recognise that a key pillar obviously the scheme has been since a members' mode made those decisions in recent years arm and I get the concern that Members have about risk around a sizeable capital projects I share that concern clearly but I'm I tried to outline to you the steps I think what we can and would want to take a to mitigate or minimise that risk members
OK thank you very much and often Alcock cancer after Farani whose her but lost the next question I thank you Chair for the forecast thank you to the three officers for excellent presentation are we as got members who had a guide to all of that area with a previous Chief Executive Aire Thomas and cut for them considers that the
Rushey Green Councillors at that time and then so see what was shown had put exportation of what to come and I've got to say I'm not disappointed
now the question I was going to ask already being asked by Councillor cross-kick but I was still repeated now day and little good things in the report any future I particularly with that to match funding of 1 point 6 5 Miller parcel G Kelly now ready said that there as far as welcome sand yearly stickily agreement or proposal now are budget illusion has been hit hard how to make sure that because of domestic
situation here in Lewisham this opportunity for working with an CareFirst Kirshner club and the grudging Thomas Lane are not going to be a victim of our flusher crisis
I'm very happy to come back on that Councillor and each city to good on two it's a good question you but you go directly to heart how will we match fund arm so the report to Mayor and Cabinet tomorrow night at seeks agreement to vary the capital programme seeks match funding of 1 point 6 5 million from longer bar of Lewisham in the financial implications we do seek to answer that that very question members will be aware that early in the year there was the intention to refurbish the Old Town Hall building are happy to work with colleagues over the over the summer to address that very question of where they were the match funding would come from given the tight circumstances and with the through discussion that the at the E M T and David Austin with Kevin Sheehan at the proposition of the will come forward in I revised capital programme is to is to pause that several million pounds refurbishment of the former town hall in the short term and prioritise good growth Fund match funding over that that the right answer members
thank you
song can't hear Councillor current sorry I Laverty muted myself as any time I ever have I just like to say that you know it's very difficult decision about reallocation of finances but if we are going to tackle climate change this redesign of town centres is going to be crucial to how people live and reduce dependency or cause and get people to public transport cycling so there we are now we got there Councillor Walsh as next
thank you very much and thank you very much for officers for their presentation tonight several years ago now I sat in this committee and I think that we challenged you are as officers to come up with a plan that meant we wouldn't get a muck town and I'm very pleased to see that there is no muck town in the papers that you've presented tonight I think what you've done is outstanding and don't just take my word for it members they are are now in a ward winning a group of individuals and who have called out an engagement and recently committed are appearing or ward so I think that we need to be absolutely proud of this because there's a this is a Lewisham council are Laurel something the week and actually say that we are incredibly good at in fact national leaders having a sum that we need to to be mindful of when we're going out talking about this piece of work and officers have been an incredibly engaged with Members and the community and it's on that line our first not to pick up and so are inset on 1 point 2 point 7
officers speak about the diversity of of Rushey Green at the ward I represent and we've heard from officers about the high levels of engagement I was wondering if they could just highlight some of the work they have done to reach some of those are different populations that we have in the area so that we can be mindful of that makes sure that we are absolutely delivering for every Member of a Catford I also wanted to pick up as many of Members here will have have correspondence about an the former dog track footbridge as well and as wondering if officers could ghost through the changes that will be making to Catford Bridge or proposals they're they're putting forward a cap with Bridge to enable cycling and in fact any cycling infrastructure at that they're looking for within sight or or this plan and then obviously as Paul pointed out the beginning of the session and this is a live document changing document so be interesting to know what the view is about how Catford will look in light of a coronavirus and the changing her model of town centres and the introduction of 15 minute towns so if you could potentially just highlight some of those things I would be grateful
do you have any more questions because I referred to are just be as concise as possible to saw no no OK that's great thank u k perhaps for brevity Deborah may may want to pick up the first one is being closest to that that great work
and and others
I knew their engagement and diverse groups it has been interesting we tried and out lots of things and one of the things that we can't most proud of the work that we did when we had an a youth Inga if adviser who actually came in and wrote an article bout in a publication about you know what will Lucian council do differently she interviewed us and then we interviewed her and she actually was with us and for for years and it was very important Havering board on board we think that we know is that diversity sees diversity and in order to reach those groups it's about representation and that was really an important for us for me I know that I'm not always the best person to speak to certain people but we have a very diverse team and that is very important we trialed some really interesting things and got some really interesting feedback that had if we hadn't have done that we we just won't have known that that's in particular something that we're very proud of and we will continue to do as we move forward
so thank thanks Debra on the on Council show second point about the dog track footbridge I I forgive me last over in terms of my intro but in 5 1 3 and 4 we do and indeed in the decisions at Mayor and Cabinet tomorrow we are seeking expressly to draw a line under the under the former footbridge project and to report the sat section 1 0 6 money of about one and a half million pounds towards the station links projects just just to be clear I I if you want me to go into the detail of that I can do we have tried to do justice to why some of the history of that why that footbridge now why the time is now right to draw that line we have and the steps we've taken to fulfil that previous commitment I know Members have been a very closely Morgan over the years but we we seek to draw a line under that now and make firm that repurposing of that resource week we believe too great a benefit and certainly are certainly to to to use that resource wisely in a spirit of priorities that residents have themselves identified indeed men that Ward Members you've had an input into that as well which have been grateful tool on on a cycling point
1 we can't do stressed an and we with officers believe we need to have a safe secure well it facilities for cyclists if we're going to make that easier convenient accessible and to to to to encourage even more Ambersons cycle and visitors also and so a key commitment we're making is to invest in those facilities that make them safe easy to use and secure and Sarah which you like just to touch on the are the Catford Bridge
and specifically the underpass and the
the claimants by stroke cycling side of the bridge
first so in the scope of works for far Curley delivery one of the key elements was to lighten the subway
which I think would actually about triple the width of it we actually already did a feasibility study in had an engineer come to site to evaluate that that was a feasible proposition that Subway is that that route is the national 21 cycle route
so that would be an improvement in terms of them legibility and safety for cyclists moving through that now the longer term ambition is that as the Hufford and Wick site is developed the placement of buildings sort of defines further defines the cycle route down along an unconverted river and connecting
across the river through to the park as well at recently we introduced in the Framework plans as specifically it's on page 63 of the draft framework document
with input from yourselves as well to emphasise emphasise the opportunity to open up an arch for cyclists to travel west to Catford hill through the Halfords Anwick site and also to ensure that there are advanced boxes in the road design that they're safe turning onto Ravensbourne Park for cyclists now the framework team we've been working with engineers and landscape architects in our interdisciplinary team and we have spent a lot of time refining this in reviewing this and considering all of the movements for cyclists and movements for pedestrians
and that is what we've captured in the guidance in Chapter 2 and in the more detailed guidance for the sites so there is a long term vision for significant improvements for how cyclists can safely moved through the area in the short term we definitely want to see secure covered cycle parking facilities and that is something that we can
Work to provide around the station environment
thank you very much sooner homes run and counsellors and Ruske his next lorry tend to quit there was a third element was around our pivoting for conferred yes sorry yes
it just I mean I'll give you top line we've we've our staff selves that question a lot over the summer Councillor Walsh
clearly there are there is some way to go in summer interns of the the future of retitled in quantum of retire I was desperately concerned when Boots closed
and August similarly so I we need vibrance I teams got fed of me fed up for me thought of drawing us back to the fundamentals and that's why Sara's eloquent rendition around the three pillars really so important because our for me that's the fundamental answer to that that question about covert proof
do those three pillars get any less relevant in a post covert setting or a even more even more relevant even more essential the Green and the vibrant and accessible sense of safety that we will feel safe to walk out onto the High Street that it's easy to stay local are and we got every good reason to do so so that that's the fundamental that we're working with I believe that some elements of the scheme are will change are we can't see all of those at this point in time I I've said I have said in other places though and the I do believe there will be opportunities as well as threats on the high street and you know this could be the time when arm
or places like Bradford and several will it much more eloquently than I will around 15 minute city this could well be the moment where that that sense of change of this work life or work and and rest of life balance runs in favour of of a of Catford if we get some key component rights as as as we move forward because David thank you very much thank it no Our Councillor summer Osprey thank you Chair and an and finally back on a sandwich element after an absence of at 3 years and hello Deborah and there are very many very long time it's a thing you nice to see you my question actually goes back goes back to the and 85
I guess it's for you Paul in a case of worse case scenario where TSL can't fund anymore
what happens then
On
will tear fell are we already have he funding which is which is secure which is why we need to keep the project moving are the a TEFL is really about getting the work done I think that's the fundamental it's less about them
from my point of view the funding and actually the technical resources any ownership to Gianotti options and do the modelling that we need to see to move forward a preferred option the the the other question around funding then is the principal capital sum needed to actually do the work
and that will tend to reside with the F T less with tear fell out as I think I've said previously its he it is a complex landscape I chant I I can't give you or you know a clear will do this instead I cancer stammer of scheme at this point in time when I would really what I said before I won't go into bat to move forward with a potential scheme as is and with the with any circumstance we face as we move forward and I'll bring out that situation to you can I ask a quick supplementary to that I haven't been involved in St the Sonos app development for quite some time so I haven't had all the detail I might I Perth and thing Prussian that significant funding was coming from tier fell for the road realignment so you're saying that isn't the case then why I I'll on Uni to uni to look back into the capital somewhat I care what I can I haven't got it all in the Taylor forgive me forgive me part the but I do know that the principal capital sum was coming from the major roads
networks figures so that so that's the main LEB apprise or finance that we need to secure to get the scheme down that resides with DFT and get that that's where the main cost will be fungal Bacchae thank you very much
OK I'm I got a couple of questions myself I for Woakes during this time first of all can I first or second what has been said and I hope that one of our recommendations will be to commend this report and the achievements of officers including movement on the project in difficult circumstances and fighting hard to win the money and resources to implement those new things including the station links and Local growth Fund so that's fantastic news really is fantastic news and I really want to say well done
secondly I like to ask about the theatre move advised me that there will be quite significant son to get it going for the year of culture
winches cannabis is that those applying for that which would be most welcome but my it's a theme that serve we have raised for 10 years now and it's got nothing to do with the operation of the theatre by the wonderful staff who have been operating it's all about the council's responsibility to apply for lottery funding to significantly changed the it in a way that we all know I'm going to hear that makes it a modern venue suitable for housing big events
and I'd like that to be a recommendation that the accounts the officers and the Mayor and Cabinet this to go to then currently come back to us or in the next few months as to how and that is going to happen so that's the first thing secondly her the and very small thing really but it's more about the station as you say and have a tiny little door to get into their Catford station for maiden more road that the little one that's opposite the new Sainsbury's and obviously things like that can make a huge difference allied with the decks and improvements in the subway so those things are really could be looked-at and also are getting buses an hour to cool at the
a station which is feasible and wonder if for officers could look into that as well the overall I think in the 8 0 5 the master plan as indicated previously is some things that this committee's pushed for a very long time but glad to see it still retained but one thing I'm just slightly confused is about because the whole reason for asking about having a master plan in the first place which officers then didn't in that will be very pleased
is where does the power lie those at the top of the power of this who makes the decisions because old thing about this project was to ensure coordination are no different departments on the Council previously going back of it now who or had a finger in the pie for there wasn't one her sense rule or autonomous power to to sort it out and as James said you know we didn't once a Mac town so I can you reassure me that what the structure is an is someone is overseeing this either
a cannot go straight to that one space on other times as brief as possible arm point directly to your Chief Executive my chief executive Kim rights restructure that members agreed earlier in the year and which brought together a clustering of regeneration and growth based services arm that was implemented over the summer so so the direct answered your question is are on the officer side are in the housing regeneration and public realm Directorate headed by Kevin Sheehan as you know I'm interim or stress interim Director Regeneration social inclusion that's the new Post title crated Catford sits within that cluster
and I feel very directly accountable to you as members to Kevin and and the extended management team for delivery against this programme are and I expect that to to continue to reside with my successor or when that moment comes there is still some or find each relevant implementing those structures are say directly to you that this further work I want to do their that's principally in terms of bringing together eight delivery team you've rightly commended our officers on the on call the seasoning and they're an absolute asset to this Council and I would in no way wish to this disrupt them so I've I've held back on
any changes in that space but it does need to be certainty about the delivery system for Catford
as we move forward into 20 21 and that remains my commitment to do that thinking and ensure those a clear both a clear plan and capacity to continue this work I am rocked up here to this work with a great team and see falter I intend to hand it over in a place where it will continue that my commitment to EU members and I was on a kind on that one that note thank you and on the on the you made the point about station at access and accessibility that's fundamental to the links projects and an unsure I should stress the work of Sandra Plummer has been looking very closely at that's the third key member the team she's taking some well only can be with a saving but she is overseeing the and Uno is is very committed to exploring with rail operators how we can improve that accessibility in that space or buses you you've rightly raised and mentioned I can't give you a commitment on a saving we can take that so in other places are with Louise McBride with which Hefele certainly on lottery funding of made the previous point about a bidding are and at that that equally can apply to the theatre I'm so I do think again added value an unbroken record Job receiving but once we provide another benefit of the framework is weaken bid more generally and that I see no reason why that shouldn't include the theatre I did try and contact lease Dance for some the history about lottery bid so maybe if I take outline have a word with her and get back to you
yeah
well thank you very much I have got one thing to say is we won't be going on much longer you'll be glad to hear but I do have to ask Members for suspension of Standing orders can we agree to that so we can because if we go beyond 9 30 agreed agreed thank you all I take that as a sound and I've had a last it has to be very quick Councillor Clarke if you could because you haven't spoken yet so that we I think it was just a very quick comment charges to say thank you for the report but are so that I thought it is very particularly good the emphasis on the green centre of Catford and and they are the comment I was going to make was that I would encourage it looks like it's going to be very thorough but encourage a diversity of trees there as well because very often it's always silver birch and very in twig-like trees and it's a little pet thing of mine that if we could have a very wide range of a winter-flowering cherries all sorts of trees that are you know a very diverse but I thought that was a very nice part of the plan thank you Chair
I'd just like to point out that there is a giant Redwood growing in one of the gardens and ravens will park crescents 0 which I was privileged to see it so as not very old when it's massive and I don't know council planning is going to do about acting about 50 years but anyway or pole there so just a very very quick word sorry am I just wanted to thank you and Members for their kind words to the team means a lot I do appreciate that sorry she said that earlier very grateful well I'm gonna move to recommendations now because we don't want just to let this opportunity pass by but one of we accept her if the recommendations that are in the report if we can agree those out to it our particular commendation of the success of officers in securing the funding and the quality of the projects
with good growth and
a station links as excellent news a little diamond gleaming in the darkness at this this time can we also make a recommendation that officers come back with a long term and talking long-term future of the theatre with the lottery bid to transform the theatre in the way that we now I might have to my computer is going
and if I go to the leisure can have to take over as Vice Chair so can you hear me still a gap as much as I came in it looks like up this notion better reason I mean I can't switch it off so her to carry on just to say that Sir R if we could make that recommendation about the theatre the long term lottery bid at really important I had one other but if anyone else has any they would like to out whilst applying for time I will then a wrap up
OK well thank you very much once again it's been excellent is be cheering us and we hope that we can move on all his projects very soon thank you
Brian so erm I think irked him if you could come back into the meeting
allocated we're now moving on so I let I've got it wrong the work programme for
the Committee yes can I just before we do that can assess that their recommendations and the last item work agreed by the Committee's those sorry
I was panicking about being cut off yes can we agree those recommendations Bray these things and he Ruch thank you for the excellent person accent there's no other were end of items are part of the land the problem
what program yeah so they were programmed is comprised of a number of different suggestions so some from the suggestions from their committed the Committee at the last meeting of the the last year
suggestions for officers and issues arising as result of previous scrutiny but also been two additional suggestions for the work programme from Members by can leave it to them to to him to set those out essentially mean I think as a as a committee agreed as usual tear go through the year and prioritises necessary and move items around as necessary to allow you to carry out the most effective scrutiny as and when is necessary and I think that is pretty much will I have to say on that thank you Chair OK so what I was put that I'm
document on the screen I can do what I'm going to do is put up the work programme and overview of the work programme for all year
OK I want to make it a bit larger
Christophe looking more pubs
why can everyone see that as it is
classes on us about a biggest can go that cutting everything else off now we we had a debate beforehand so I don't think we need to
to go through it again I just put a proposal and if anyone else what's put another proposal than we can vote on it and thing finish the meeting says everybody happy with that yes happy OK so
the COVID measures
for business was was one moving that forward because from March perhaps members could remind me what other ones were
yeah I wanted to look at the budget deficit in the
the Simon my brain's going into that that the I'm support services yeah yeah yeah particularly waste management
so I think that's one of the case was just thinking about it and I think it's one of the key things that so far
remits and it's gonna be a lot of it is what we can talk about in the budget cuts anyway I guess
so Councillor Walsh wants to say something so thank you for that other proposal then that we move that to the November meeting Councillor Walsh
so on I think November meeting is going to be asked the staff Shirley are oversubscribed by the 40 million plus pounds of in year budget cuts that were going to have to find an I think that are filling up the November meeting is full Hardy and because we know this going to be significant challenges and pressures on the nation's finances and serve our services such as parks call it a cleansing etc etc are going to so are all be and discussed and the within the scope of potential cuts I nothing that that's going to take us some time to feared for Alex I pause I think that the response silly impact coded 19 local businesses I was at I absolutely champion local businesses Lansdown is the Cabinet Member has set up a task force and we set up a task force as at the local authority to look at this and it meets on a regular basis one of the things that we haven't done that as a Council Ireland as scrutiny and is look at our emergency planning activities and emergency planning for for lenders memories are are is completely held within a constitution as a remit of this committee and it is one of our responsibilities as sustainable development Select Committee to make sure that we are overseeing and looking at and how the Council is responding to two key things like global pandemics so it we might wish to take a view that we should be looking at that at this committee as it is the property of this committee to look at Urco so at it so it couldn't have a key vote on IP major point so let's have a vote on erm
whether this sum
or whether whether at the November meeting we take the business COVID business issue her or the emergency plan over all emergency planning over all
Ms Fearon understand that when he is suggesting here November so those are choice we've got in bringing forward to November next meeting whether it's the
we include the environmental budget cuts in the budget discussion and its organisation and then whether we take covert business as well or we take emergency planning over all
chair if the culvert them and businesses is been covered in a task force could that not be an information item because if for Councillor Walsh you know he is has made a good point about the emergency planning particularly if things are carrying on as it seems at the moment there may be a second wave I do feel that we need to take on board his pints so perhaps we could take that emergency planning and have the as an information item at that point in time the government knows notes there I do think the all these issues all the remit of us and it's all about management juggling and then eventually a
a matter of judgment so a 0 if if there's a consensus around that come with can we agree that
parity over the AGM the climate emergency action plan is absent does it absolutely have to happen on the to and in November or cannot bite touch the January meeting arms Kinney's up this
I thought that was the proposal from officers that that would be when it would fit in with the timescale for the decision being taken Aymeric cabinet so I can always go back to them and we can reprioritise it if that's helpful but some that's as far as I'm aware that that's going to be the best time for it to come to the Committee and her Councillor Walsh up can I just check I'm I'm not fully up to speed with maybe all the arrangements of top up for overview and scrutiny I for Khan action emergency plan I think is of such significance that it is wider than just this committee it should be permeating into everything we do such as I ETI ideas and actually would it be better for it to go to a full overview and scrutiny of business panel
what we're ending up in the debate I think we have to make up our own minds because I would have thought came over to plan is uniquely it's universal as is the emergency stuff so you've just got to choose which by new favour or don't think there's a right or a wrong answer we just need to make a decision now so I think if officers saying they've got a climate emergency plan and it's got a time table and this is our remit Committee I think we stick with that and we decide what we add on 2 November so that's what I recommending
so the November 1 we've got the budget cuts
and are we want this propose put the Environmental Services Our situation in that budget cuts which is the key area that we cover or so of that 40 million at a key area that were covering so I don't see a problem with that that sort of segues very well together
OK so that's a proposal I'm a bit confused about proposal if I Morris Chair so and just got a sex-tape I think should be on the agenda I think that we need to have the majors of start in item which is the budgets and I think that we need to look at the emergency planning are are efficacy and for the beginning of this year and are Papert preparedness for potential wave to an outing that if the emergency car at the Connaught emergency action plan of is
are reaching a timetable that car can't be moved to other places and we don't think it can go to another place then it also needs to be so that would be my 3 item agenda
so Clough must certify budget cuts on what was the third thing imagine the planning OK OK so that's one thing we're going to vote on I name I'm going to put an alternative which is the Plough emergency action plan the budget cuts with particular emphasis on the environment of services
and the covert business
2 November so all those in favour of James proposal of please indicate your your hand or yes or no cause in the item got everyone on screen now so James's hands up the ways are you supporting James proposals many supported if we do include the if we absolutely I really feel that we need to include the
the Environmental Services within the budget cuts with yet
I support Genesis motion auteur so including that in that I'm and I'm including the one that's to who's in favour of the the option I put forward can see me you Jimmy is who's left
this gave a there now she left no assisting me you to I've got the casting vote on going to stick with the same verve I put in so factor decision on the proposal I put forward so thank you very much everybody for your persistence and your chair cheer for me to reverse within the Apple nearly four hours now yeah really can we tramping minor to exhaust a time night I think we have finished now anyway the fact that I have not prepared to do from 6 o'clock all the way and tell like lives only because it's just so I'm hoping that we don't have to do that again was only because he was the first mean I know such a thing as an uproar See you cheer because I think there was a sense of giving out with text
I am just saying I think we need to avoid trying to do got again the