Brent, Lewisham and Southwark IT Committee - Wednesday, 14th October 2020 at 6:30pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Brent, Lewisham and Southwark IT Committee
Wednesday, 14th October 2020 at 6:30pm 









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1 Appointment of Chair
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2 Apologies for Absence and Clarification of Alternate Members
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3 Declarations of Interest
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4 Minutes of the Previous Meeting
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5 Provision for Public Participation
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6 Update report on the ICT Shared Service for the London Boroughs of Brent, Lewisham and Southwark
9 Date of Next Meeting
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  1. Webcast Finished

fact that we're good so the webcast
thank you right thank you OK good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's meeting of the joint IT committee covering the boroughs of Brent Lewisham and Southwark
it is my name is Kevin Bonham beyond a councillor in far of Lewisham and I'm have responsibility for IT policy in the cabinet there tonight if we were meeting in person it would be a Lewisham's turn to host to be would be in Catford so this is an Catford happening virtually on via Microsoft Teams tonight
and I want to thank my fellow Committee members but from Lewisham but also from our partner Barnet Brent and Southwark joints night I am I'd also light to welcome the officers from the shared service but also officers from each of our three boroughs and I understand we may read may have other Members at least one Councillor John pursue from the London Borough of Lewisham who are observing and sent on pollution Standing orders have the right to speak should they wish to
so without further ado I'm going to quickly explain how it can work 30 tonight and then go through the agenda so the because we're meeting virtually obviously this is being webcast and welcome to anybody who's watching this for those of us inside the virtual at teams meeting if we are cut off or ever reason if you are invited cut off forever please contact James Kinsella whose clocking tonight's meeting you will try and bring back in this is something that we do in Lewisham that if if for whatever if the meeting gets cut off on the webcast and we cannot reconvene within 15 minutes then we can please consider this meeting adjourned and that will be a new date will be published and we will carry on then hopefully that won't happen and given we've got all the IT experts of the tonight them

1 Appointment of Chair

our touch with that so that any so that that's a bit the background now turning to the agenda hoping everyone can see that because myself the first item is appointment of Chair and I've started of introduces meeting but not for me started as Chair but given that we're being hosted by Lewisham tonight can I nominate myself as Chair and that do we have a secondment Seconded right thank you

2 Apologies for Absence and Clarification of Alternate Members

I should say at this point that I'm going to have to lie if that meeting is still going at 7 25 pm I'm going to have to leave and Joint Planning Committee meeting with Councillor John pursue his also observing and tonight when if that were to happen I've got Jonathan Councillor Dr Slater whose happy to take over it if that had happened is due to the rescue with members agree that Jonathan take over a great care thank you OK let us move on OK so do we have James apologies for absence this evening I think we just had from Councillor Derek from Lewisham and Councillor Slater's obviously attending as her replacement
or otherwise I think we've got the then eight Members from the other borrowers by clattered great thank you

3 Declarations of Interest

OK do we have any declarations of in the items in tonight's agenda from any members if I'll take silences no but if anyone has than then please say so now
OK moving on

4 Minutes of the Previous Meeting

then minutes of the previous meeting for those of us who were present at that meeting can I have any

5 Provision for Public Participation

6 Update report on the ICT Shared Service for the London Boroughs of Brent, Lewisham and Southwark

do I take those as agreed or have any comments on those again silence is I will take as agreement OK those are agreed provision for public participation so on this one James can you explain how that's at work is it as something I've already covered or something something else you to adhere no I've just say that that's just there if we do get any request for members of the public to speak at the one of our meetings but we've had no requests said I have no regrets tonight yeah OK understood thank you right on so onto the main item of this we've got the update report on the shared service adverse and I've got I believe February will be speaking to this and so I will hand over to you to introducing and to take us through the report I'm in your hands as to whether you want to either like laughs I'm stopped at different points and take questions as we go through each section or whether you want to present in a different format and totally up to you
Fabio thank you thank you Chair
if I perhaps one for a quick summary just conscious of the last the the last JC we it it those those Olympic conversations they might be more helpful considering that some some Members were gonna leave added to that so I quickly one for it
so the if I start with the performance and we had 36 tickets raised 36 thousand tickets raised are which is on par to the previous periods in terms of approximate numbers per month
24 thousand of the 36 thousand were for the shared service and there is a breakdown in the reports which covers off the breakdown between the different things
at the last joint committee we took be discussed the right out and further detail about actually what types of course that's been included in the report there was an exercise run over the last few months which we caught caught the Camelot's essentially it was a big focus and drive to reduce the number of open tickets as we saw a large number and the Park Hoe V it there was about six sorry four and a half thousand open tickets at one point our peak and there was a big exercise to reduce those numbers and we produce those numbers currently approximately 2 thousand 100 open course he as you can see that more than half the cause of the in are being closed down the impact of those courts being closed or as being negative in respect of the solace because there's a lot of a lot of calls that were older tickets which would have expired the SLA so potted our exercise has been to to close down but going forward in future don't commit a hope that the numbers but reflect better although yesterday's having proved compared to previous periods and another joint committee reports and Tanzer meeting yesterday moving onto COVID teams continues to be the year the preferred method of communication and it seems to be across all three boroughs a reduction numbers are high in the performance pathway could some metrics a sort of explains the number of instant Mehsud conversations meetings and there have been undertaken entails End Our that's the very much continues to to be there that the tool of choice if you like
the telephone service support that we introduced as apart the covert response to her to counteract those one-to-one interactions was due to expire at the beginning of October we've taken the decisions carried out on and run that by figures being it's it's proven to be beneficial for the for our offices so that that that that has been extended until the end of March
I find really wants a cyber so we've had no cyber instance two reports over the over the last period between July and September I'm sure most of your be aware that there was an incident in Hackney which started in in on Sunday I'll reflect a little bit about what I know but no concrete details canals this is this is my understanding from some of the communications that has come out but he sent me there was an issue in and we think it might have originated from a a ransomware attack and it they've managed to infiltrate parts of the system summon assistance of common to the platforms that we use in the shared service but what we have done it we've taken the the information and vices can out of their investigations and applied back into the shared service to ensure that we protect it are Brendan Lewisham Southwark council we also have a third party was caused security operation centre Sark are the actively monitor our environment for for for instance as are the graphs has been added into the performance pack as well as the report which there that that was before out of day constantly monitoring our environment for unusual activities you will see that it's a couple of a couple of items in their which sought to discuss a way to identify things those are what we call false positives where it's an unusual behaviour but when we further investigated with due to as a outings carrying out application upgrades or server changes which should not be a normal behaviour so that that was all reflect wider some of those numbers are in there
as a part of the exercise of improving our erm security levels were Harding our infrastructure improving are packing we've also had a an exercise complete where with we removed all unused accounts so we've just basically runner up and assurance exercise over there to make sure that them we will limit any scope for for for anybody to to attempt to attack us
one of the common issues that most organisations like a little furry sufferers inquiry male and so we started publishing the numbers and that we're seeing so over this last peering had 30 million e-mails going to that the Council's 82 percent of those e-mails and have even been spam or or malicious so it could be ransomware attacks and the defences that we put in place in terms of e-mail high genus 0 4 for being protected in three councils from from Los exercises if I move on to the continuous service improvement plan it's an air of focus of our are about our user experience if he likened officers in indirect in each of the boroughs there was an 80 step exercise that was introduced at the beginning of the year we we produce those numbers down to 24 now we had a session at the beginning of this week which has introduced to more answered 0 says numbers of outstanding action than out to 26 since the report was written but we're we're constantly looking at improving service and are and how we interact of officers and so forth that some of the progress there and Audit and there has been progress in the audience so one of the conversation last year on committee was around the actual specifics and the items so we've introduced a high level to insert the sort discuss or where we are with all of the actions and so for so will be able to monitor that as we go through the Joint Committee processes that's ordered defeat to join committees will also be introducing the results of the audit step will be conducting for the remainder of the year so moral this will be added but I would hope that that number of actions as standing actually will be reducing
as a part of the order exercise were discussing the forward plan and so our ambition here is to get the three barriers to agree a timetable this is we have managed to it at to achieve the agreement to such distempered is it's all in it's all been progress we've agreed roughly the order and the audits on a carry out it's just about settling and analysis which we're all my stairs so I suspect by the next one committee it will be in full flow around decoder exercise the target operating model and so we have this morning reviewed the law one of the the last versions are we taking comments from our and from our partners out onto the Directors of IT to the each of the boroughs and I think we've we got her place of of earth a pace where we're all pointing in the same direction so that the next stages to Reiser an options paper I'll which will go to the Joint Management Board and that is due in the next four weeks for for approval and funding Lewisham homes s is it's it's tributary Sence sort sort slightly separately to that and overturn essentially we we've we've config exercised with Lewisham homes to understand the technical majority and understand their road maps and technical roadmaps makes your airline I think that the shared services comfortable with and principle so the next step now is for a report to be written go to the Joint Management Board
attitude to decide on the on how if had Lewisham homes joins us international toys into the shadows and if so how that or how that work in terms of governance
and we've been working quite hard on attack roadmap which is a five year plan to discuss that sought to develop and ensure that we have infrastructure and services that are fit for purpose we were identified 30 million pounds over the next five years as across all of the three boroughs and 42 million pathway from investment to modernise I make sure that we can run a service that's fit for our frontline services to support our citizens and and local businesses we are defining there a couple of strategic choices that we're that that were working for at the moment around infrastructure and use of clouds and so which are sort of were working through down hopefully by the end of November we'll have a report which would like to share with a joint committee about about our ambitions and and how we're are how we're going to approach them and in the last step is finance for me so we've got her a spend of 14 point 4 million which is the operating costs for the shared service and were currently predicting a 10 k underspend
and that's it from my summary great a cape and think that they are now in terms of Members will we have questions and comments what might the to ways of doing this but the easiest thing is to use the raised hand functions I can definitely see that but if it for everyone and you can't all prefer not these all you can also use the chat function so do I have any questions from members of the Committee
now well are others Southwark
I want to clear my internet is very bad so I'm hoping you can hear me not there are just doing Cabinet so coming to everything knew I had just a couple of questions it would be good just to die made just to go into the kind of Hackney it's in a little bit more and obviously sad that there are lots of protections in place but you know
it's great there's be
incidents but when they happen they can come as a surprise so I suppose it's just understanding you know how confident are you that the right the right mechanisms in place and then I just had a question around
just the use of McChrystal teams versus kind of Zoom and other technologies just if you know so it's the council we using teams a lot but particularly with external stakeholders using zoom and others and I just wondered in terms of a conversation in the bow how we enable and use other kind of modes of operating within audiences I don't if as me he disgusted at all and I'm aware the in having conversations around the licences with Microsoft but it would be good just to get any I dunno date or information on that area as well for close Fabio for in terms of
it's an interesting because I haven't included the 30 the actual method of how they've initially got in we understand the actions that have taken once they've got him essentially so what so those bits of information has been shared around the infrastructure around of some of the services of abuse we've ensured that we've put the laser protection we responded in the in the right way turned her tomato we secure them down so they'd be accounts they would be they would be certain services that would be unavailable or restricted access so we we've introduced all of those steps it the in place but as I as it as an additional security that's where we relying on out third-party partner the third party was recommended by the National Cyber cybersecurity Centre as a as as an an extra layer I'd had to make sure so from the from the perspective of hardening our environment at the moment I think we're with if we if we if we were to score it you know 5 being the best one being the lowest I'll say with probably about four there's still work to be done and that's what we've done is we've included that in our road map and so we have a section within when there that actually details all of the areas which we need to invest heavily in and when I went when I saying best and the areas of concern now the out of date pieces of software mobile devices it's not something as like erm below non-secure fire wall or or anything that might add a serious as a staff so I I think when we're not in a bad place but we certainly have written to improve but we hope fact after as the assurance to a third party to protect us
and if I go on to your second question if I may so the Xoom capabilities we as a shared service we've we will enable bar were will enable whatever technologies are needed for for the councils to operate so
those that those decisions stretching more than most strategic decisions around that deterred Joint Use of Zuma things it would be in Southwark in your case I suppose where will work closely with the on animal to make sure that we when we put them right are taught in place her to intense support Funai services
thanks thanks Fabia amend and on the army as Febreze you said they each each Burrows is 3 it just happens in all three of us are using teams at the moment and that's the case and Lewisham so were using teams and you know we're watching them all change and you know better functionality from for all the major platforms that's good for us Vickers although we corporately host all our meetings on teams we also enable members and staff to join an excellent sessions at yuzu and other platforms but is conscious that it obviously wants mindful of security but also functionality but it's it's a moving moving faces the expect so thank you thank you for beer and I've also got hand-raised from Councillor Tom steam some bread and welcome Tom to the committee size and do that before and before we are we open tonight's meeting so Tom
yeah right yes yes I just I had a quick question because I'm also new to this on 82 percent figure for spam because sorry naively I was taken aback by how high it was is there I M is that is that in terms of the political relations is it is it a bigger is is the trend upwards on that house it compare with the private sector
and I'm guessing as well how do we feel to it because it's the rest of the other constituency queries get getting extend with that it's not I was a bit taken aback by how our whole how large the figure was basically those on to some more information on that
thank you so the VAT 2 percent I don't know how that reflects with with the with the private sector I I come from another local authority where the figures were quite high as well they were in the eighties Mark in in other organisations I saw I think is quite common what you tend to find his the majority that would be treated as spam as opposed to actually maliciously mouth so well and gets you know looking to her
or an e-mail newsletter and innate markers junk or spam than it sought to get blocked essentially but I wouldn't normally the numbers of between 4 and 5 per cent their action malicious or that we need to be concerned about
and in terms of filtering so what tends to happen is that the e-mails go via a partner in the in in our cases because as to partners that we use are approved point on wind cast and essentially they had they use industry standard sort of algorithms to detect a and a huge knowledge of other customers of a private sexism and personal personal responses anybody that does have the way Mark here and that tends to to to to be a spivvy to give them a rating and also to other checks to see where the actual if the Mill says it's come from Microsoft has actually come from a Microsoft server for instance there's a number of checks and that's nearly score and then depending on the scores Webber gets free
we we don't tend to get a few amount of numbers sorry e-mail address his that have been blocked unnecessarily for on the odd occasion where we do normally or tickets raise because a customer or already no one of our systems of her rang in told us and we made sure that there was an exclusion list and ensure that there you must confirm his her what will tell the Council
thank you thank you further and Margaret you have a question or comment I'll yes I did Fabio in view of the fact that term and the side were tax up getting far more sophisticated is it's her is there a need or requirement that in terms of our hard-won our systems we might need to look to upgrade an animal frequent basis so
in a fixed monthly might say Well this is seven years will look for it again for capital expenditure but I'll be looking at that's a much reduced time frame now because I say this last attack was extremely sophisticated as far as I gather so and a lot of it you know related to hardware so I would like your view and that of for the shared surface
for absolutely and the employment things of originating the part of our tech roadmap is exactly that refresh cycle or ever nothing is cool refer to as ever greening making sure that you're always up today
aside for the industry is also moving away from having platform as we move more what a cloud you don't end up with a version numbers that are at that that data that you own and social simply moved to what they call Sassen products that are already on line in there that that the reliance on as having to do those Appraiser around by 30 actual birthday parties or whoever posted hosting the toll so the industry's Natalie moving that way but we put his apart are tech roadmap for those environments that aren't but but when the refreshed cycle whenever will be part of the options appraisals put forward to gain funding
thank you thank you for the at Rebecca thanks Kevin I have got an about and can have dared the bit about covert that we've got in here and obviously this has fundamentally changed the way everyone's working in yes two things one what would we think the main learnings are from the last three months and things that we need to look at given weren't going to be in this situation for quite a lot longer and also are there any areas of kind of increased pressure will concerned that you're anticipating in the next period whilst we continue to operate in the snowmen
the I suppose wonderful that the biggest thing I've note I I think to reflect on with covert a culture change within with Mervyn the organisations that there's sometimes been historically an impression at you know people can't vote from home or your less efficient or detached from the organisation and I think is proven that it that the necessary not the case we can operate video works we we know we have the infrastructure to to be able to do that but the culture shift I'd end any interesting thing I've seen a couple of reflections where
some people have said that that that that that they they missed the conversations in in the office level where you had had you'd you'd hear somebody else talking in your subconsciously the absorbing that conversational that of anything happening and as an attachment there where some he fought the only concession have appeared in our ward of part of the meeting so 4 on the flip side to that what we have seen is is is is it's more focus into in terms of I and has done a lot of Departments that have said that actually differ activity it's not enough from from the from that perspective because they've had the they're not have the distractions and so far so I suppose non-search question I think the culture thing is that is the biggest I've seen and adoption if I reflect on where I worked previously we used a third that decision the 14th scope for business and as as the telephone platform but people wouldn't so turn the video on that it feel comfortable with it and now people are having that interaction you're getting that that that the human side of its setting is become more productive and more helpful I'm really sorry but I forgot the second I hadn't right and second part your question and it was whether you think there are any kind of pressures or concerns that you have looking ahead over the coming months and as we can have increasingly continue to work from home
from what I think are sought from that from the cultural perspective I think that that there is there as an investment so Southwark specifically your or are moving away from the think life and it's all got some of the laptop start to deploy it so I think that's one of the precious to make sure the way that we do we finish our transition of but fundamentally no I think I'll be infrastructure pressures as we as we grow more and more so and what we tried to his capital again in the technology roadmap side the weather's internet connection that meet the upgrading making sure that we have the right software available for full staff at it sets the after web up a lot of the basis is being covered so I I don't see anything shoot
OK thank you for other any other comments or questions of a couple of my own that does want to see if any Wells's got any OK but some feel free to raise your hands of what in a well while we carry on with ease and so favoured a couple of compromise and really and coming back to the Hackney hack
with so I discussed this a today with are officers of hissing IT some Lewisham and obviously it's since what you've explained about what we know about and what can be said about it but for me it my number one concern in this role has always been vital security now comes first second third although because
you've got that right then you know the whole system is at risk and and and I'm conscious that you know I'm sure all borrowers Fadden recently have over the years had had attacks
and it is going to happen again we know it can happen again and all we could what we could do as minimise it minimise the risk we can't eliminated as minimise it and we talked earlier about about you know some the and the markets right you notice refreshing everything is as much as we can but for me it also cultural thing is a behavioural thing about people using their IT how they use IT because you know that could be our weakest link somebody not protecting their own IT and just gets into the whole system something I've practice Prussian in Lewisham of that so that you know there's a culture of safety-first of IT but can what kind of assurance can you give us about the shared service doing same
I'm so when would this is so what we're trying to do with work on that operating model and align that with time on the road maps out there's two avenues for for a further shift out is for pan if you like we're adding capacity into the or we hope to act Pacitti into the shared service specifically around Cyber and controls we have we have actively been working with with the rest of the London Local authorities around the allowed us to cyber strategies to make sure that we have got shared knowledge we've also as I mentioned either backed off to a third party to give us an assurance and so with that with with the target operating model in the introduction of a couple a cyber security area as opposed to an information security areas away where we were focusing more on technical controls as well as the policies were previously nothing there was a bit more policy in a little bit less technical control why introducing that I think I will make sure that we're following the White practice civil we'd have the that the right checks in place and end the impasse man in the technical road maps specifically on the cyber other the cyber peaceful or make sure we have the right tools or were active were able to respond if if their if or when there is an incident that were able to minimise any impact in terms of data loss disruption or whatever it might be I'm so we we are very much to trying to develop their capability
and unless you've got a question
and then there's diverges looking at the news and swings them the report said when it happened in Redcar and Cleveland it cost them about 10 million pounds
an interest in terms of the kind of analysis you've done and the mitigation of like what in A Walk and I don't know whether cost comes from under of rats aware I guess there's a routes and element of a low wall what was what are those costs you know is there a kind of the different levels of what your assessment of what the cost might be if it did happen on different scales it could be it could be Hughton when viewed if if you were heavily important where you were held to ransom we had no option to to to to to pay but it's not of seen when I would sonic condone believe depending on the circumstances it could you know
it could be in the millions as as as as Redcar Cleveland it had found out there are ensuring assurances in place to enter into from a ransom why perspective
to protect the Council from a financial aspect
the but fundamentally are a lot of these costs can also come come down to so securing infrastructure render and so forth there was the somewhere I worked at the her previously and and then they had a similar incidents where the Head of denial of service attack
and and it cost a 100 100 k per annum to HQ some some some some other layers of security to protect them from that and and they it I suppose it's very it depends on on specifically the type of incident and what they whether it's a destruction or overstate left but you also have the impact serve if if there was some if if if if the ICO could potentially finding if there was a if if there was a huge instant as well and and an accurate you know going to the millions as well so that's what definitely worth considering from from that perspective
thank God for it so that's pretty sobering I'm so quite so important OK I've got a couple of other topics of this was to raise one is other we discussed it at the last meeting a little bit about and too slow to hear more about what's happening with the support services via hornbills been greatly got the telephone serves as I know from a members perspective that's that's been really helpful but in terms of refreshing hornbill and make and making it more user friendly more it had house like going
so since the last and the last meeting we've I think you are can't remember how many after my had harmony
paths you you could go through to 20 lock a core within hornbill but I'm I I know we have drastically removed that there are there that the numbers of avenues to simplify it for fought for our officers and we we so we've about another interface which is our trial it is at the moment in trial are with members of each of the boroughs so we've swift target specific areas that have high volumes or or or individuals I will give us constructive feedbacks make sure that we do can be adapted to to whatever needs had actual is actually in progress at the moment are will be one to run it for a few months to get some constructive feedback and will eat whatever tweak or will in look to implement it over the next couple of months across the three boroughs if if it's signed off and then they're happy in principle
good could hit and my last question is is to do with what connectivity not so much about hacking River is all security but but obviously in its has happened for a while touch work but but you know when the connection gets lost at two or between servers and and that that causes a problem major problem and and we've a really want to avoid that but report mentions in passing not not too much detail about so essentially the cloud programme and I and I know that something that it's shared lives on the boroughs are eat all looking at in their own terms could you brief outlines or what the journey is the shared service in terms of it resilience as it were so we know in terms of how how our connectivity what is currently linked up now a through serves and well what the plan is for the medium to long term to so we've got that for for the current record
so so far reflect on the last period we did have one one of the Pea when asked is I think in a performance pack one of the P 1 Ashes and we did have was her a total loss of connectivity
sadly this this week it was caused by an engineer working in in one of the data centres a third party not a council member of staff but one of the providers and they and their awful to be unplugged one of our circuits because they wanted to work on it but they also unplugged the resilience and the resilience cycle we had as the backup so took out both of those circuits which affected the instruments
it's been escalated than their and their their their that they're taking action that her within our organisation because it's in is an ocean of happens but so we do have resilience within Acis an unfortunate in that case that that there were both disconnected but in terms of capacity and resilience weeks we do have that we are introducing some more as a part of the technology roadmap saying what we're trying to do is are the three kept the 3 councils they operates in slightly differently Brayton those and share a lot of infrastructure because obscene historically they they they they they joined forces earlier and and Southwark enjoined so that our presence in in the process of transitioning some to the clouds the ones F at that that it's actually cloud ready that fit for purpose that also financially make sense to transfer to the to the cloud and or no services for whatever strategic reason or financial reason there aren't a great fit we're actually going to be migrating those into the shared service data centre and and thence to then share resources and check ability shared at a cost of as well as resilience and as part of tech roadmap booking of including an and attempting to improve on that resilience
OK so I think it would be helpful for voter for the next report of a bit more maybe even as a separate report a bit more about that problem because it's it's it's major as cotton implied over the years ahead and justice of timelines costs you know and and the benefit to know what you know the benefits and and and that was quite helpful to understand a little bit of accurate it's not all going to the cloud we have to make some decisions and how and when within a so that I think
I think that would be helpful
OK that's what I've got to raise myself as anybody and it do any other Members have any questions does anybody anybody who some revenue have any members and are saying the virtual audience who what Carney questions no acid the Council of pursue from Lewisham has gone off to prepare to Chair of Strategic Planning which I'll have to join shortly myself OK
can I say but Fabricant thank you as a fur for you are Canals as a shared service your staff in a shared service for all you've been doing few months that you know it's a lot goes on behind the scenes and went on sales of IT that actually you know something is working well Whitey when you don't notice it so so and how that's so please keep up the good work and and also keep you know keep all looking rate to improve it and and you have our full support on that cowl so thank officers fun the respective Councils are rejoinders tonight and few support
with a shared surface because I know you guys meets separately on that and and and and hold them to account at great and finally to my fellow members and James and support staff at night for taking part night so I think James I think on this item can I simply say we note that you've got our comments for that the minutes going back to the genders are I'm things anything else and as one of double check there's no other urgent business

9 Date of Next Meeting

the UK not covered no no I think the only other thing to to just to know it's a date for the next meeting which is the 2nd of March next year which is due to be while for meeting physically would be at Brent Yabba will will will arrange it as a virtual meeting at this stage pending what happens as we move forward thank us from Lucian's rectify dot com the other boroughs boots our current plan is that we are staying virtual tool until at least March so Abel he knows unfortunately we were but we look forward or see thumbs up their Margaret look forward to joining guides virtually at Wembley if not
the if not in person
that Graham was thought James would have 3 metres still are on a shed of three meetings a year I think that's how we like yeah that's right so this was the second one as he marched third so I think we're going sought with this roughly oxides our March in around so due time as well earthlit I'll cover or I I'm so everybody into tonight's meeting thank you for your time enjoy our fear evening right thank the
thank you
I know