Licensing Committee - Tuesday, 3rd November 2020 at 7:30pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Licensing Committee
Tuesday, 3rd November 2020 at 7:30pm 









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1 Minutes
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2 DeclarationsofInterest
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My name is Councillor customer asking I'm chairing this meeting this evening some scope to run through the procedure for tonight as it is a remote meeting as I do every meeting I'm going to read it from the from Reno from my guidance because I just think that word is there's no ambiguity so could ever on police put their microphones to mute now some Utah their microphones on their laptops and and to ensure that we're not disturb any background noise and can you please make sure that all your mobile phones are on silent as well please I'll be great
don't put your microphone on until I call you to speak please thank you very much so before the business starts I'd like to make clear the procedure for this evening this is a formal virtual public meeting the purpose of which is to make the decision on the application having considered all the evidence presented before us including written reports verbal representation questions asked please could ask people not talk over one another and treat each other with courtesy and respect at all times as Chair all invited to speak interruptions may result in you being disconnected from this meeting at Licensing Committee members of the public had been known to speak with candour and passion but please remember that this is a public meeting it has been screened live up via the Council's website and recorded for Pete for future reference please do not disclose publicly something that should not be said or could be regretted later the applicant will be invited to speak and members will then be invited to ask questions objectors then speak within may then speak and again members will be asked make we'll be able to ask questions all allow five minutes for each presentation please ensure that there's no repetition if there is repetition of I'll interrupt you and get you to move on
if a member of the Committee wishes to ask a question because I please ask them to indicate this on the chat panel please don't use the race hand function just use the chap panel with a really either ACU or a question mark just so that I know and then is that you want to ask a question like and then it's not easy for me to keep the questions in order as well
members of the public are reminded that the chap panel is not for public use any messages left on a chap on members of the public will be disregarded by the Committee members
members of the public who are disconnected from the disconnected from the meeting due to technical difficulty difficulties should use the link or dining instructions they were sent initially to return to the meeting if a member of the Committee loses internet connection or power can they please inform the Chair of this Committee immediately so that we can adjourn the meeting until that the connection has been restored also you could it can and contact Claire as well when members had heard all of the evidence the meeting or close a deliberation will be made elsewhere that decision will be sent to all parties by e-mail within five working days of this meeting
OK so the only apologies I have for this evening are Councillor Campbell
was there were there any other kind of apologies Claire any ends are 0 that's right Councillor Elliott's a cancer Elliott and Councillor Campbell apologies
so I am now going to ask and each Councillor to indicate who they are and I read out their names so Councillor wise
can you indicate raise your hand Councillor wise person pay Councillor Powell
Councillor Hall you Councillor how would
Councillor Carlo yeah yeah so thank you very much and so can I just ask once again that the applicant and objectors please turn their video off and then for and their and the microphones off and invite you to speak thank you very much so you are in the top right hand side of my screen other you thank you very much so early what have councillors on a spring to the time being and to unless that I'm up until invite somebody else to speak if that's OK thank you very much thank you for understanding so I'm now going to read out the names of the officers present that this meeting so I've got Jacob Morton whose are lawyer can you indicate or here J
I'm here and Lisa Hooper from the cart prime enforcement regulation manager sorry she is the crime of enforcement and regulation managers at least could you indicate the or here yes I'm here Chair thank you very much so now gonna go on to the minutes said that these are the minutes for the the still brought the Council of penalty sorry sorry to interrupt I've just just to know my not
Yanko are so tight he forgot you I'm so sorry
and you are right there in my screens so I'll so I'll so I apologise for that you can you indicate that you're here just raise your hands

1 Minutes

thank you very much so I do apologise thank you for that reminder there so Councillor I was also good point my interest the Director of Communities Partnerships and leisure and an officer of the Council I'm also present this evening I'm I'm just just observing this evening but just for completeness I'm I'm also present OK thank you very much so throw action end ago James Lee I'll tell her James sorry I did know the weather sorry James OK that's gently from a car full title the just indicated anyhow so I came so we can go on to the minutes now of the the temporary event notice that was held on the 6th of October I didn't actually chaired that meetings I had yet another meeting or Councillor Powell chaired that meeting so those who are present can I agree those minutes please
agreed thank you very much
thank you
does any Member has a declaration of interest in this item which is them the item at 70 Deptford High Street

2 DeclarationsofInterest

no interest to declare so that so no Councillor indicated any declarations of interest though I'm now going to hand over to Lisa Hooper to present a report and Lisa could use your videos while please when you do this

3 Palace Amusements, 70 Deptford High Street, SE8 4RT

thank you Chair thank you hello everyone pie I case this hearing is in relation to the representations to the new premises licence application for Palace amusements at 70 Deptford High Street SE 8 for our tea which was submitted by East Kent leasing limited this hearing was previously schedules for the 6th of October 20 20 but was postponed to allow full time for consideration of late documentation the applicant has applied to operate an adult gaming centre 24 hours a day seven days a week for Members' information and adult gaming centre allows for the provision of category B C and D gaming machines available to persons over the age of 18 only Members should also note that the council statement of licensing of gambling policy states that under 10 point 5 point to that the licensing authorities consider in considering premises licences for HTC's Adult gaming centres will specifically have regard to the need to protect children and vulnerable persons from harm or being exploited by gambling and will expect the applicant to satisfy that the Authority or satisfy the authority that there will be sufficient measures measures to promote this for example ensuring that under 18 year olds are not attracted to or gain access to the premises the application has been advertised in accordance with Regulation 12 of the premises licences and Provisional stiffness Regulations 2 thousand and 7 and the last date for receiving representations was the 25th of August 2 to 20 20 representations were received from for interested persons on the grounds of all the Licensing objectives the representations was received were for interested parties and and have been examined by officers and are considered not to be vexatious or frivolous these representations were all received within the specified time after having regard to all of the representations heard the seething Members must take such steps as they consider appropriate to promote the licensing objectives under the Gambling Act 2 thousand and 5 which are to prevent gambling from being a source of crime or disorder being associated with crime or disorder or being used to support crime ensuring that gambling is conducted in a fair and open way and protecting children and other than vulnerable persons from being harmed or exploited by gambling after considering all representations to see evening the steps available to Members our to grant the licence or to reject the licence any licence granted will be subject to mandatory conditions under the Gambling Act 2 thousand and 5 the applicant has also proposed 31 additional conditions that can be found on page 75 of the report for your consideration just to note that these have not been agreed with the police or council officers estates on page 7 of the report which unfortunately was added in error
and I'll hand back to you Chair
thank you for that Lisa sorry sorry you saying that and the the conditions haven't emit been agreed with anybody now so they've been proposed substance subsequent to the representations that were made by the four objectives this evening OK thank you and can I just ask as there been any objection from any statutory authority now
OK thank you very much for that Lisa so are now going to move on to Andrew Wood whose the representative of the applicant
if you could get it is towards so high so if you could I'm just outline your case for for the palliative care please thanks very part of eastern Thor outcomes for apricot but it's calls and carry on Rotherham's me on The Link earlier sorry in my five minutes I hope to be able to show to you very clearly how this premises would protect children would not exploit people in terms of gambling and would clearly comply with all of the licensing objectives
in shorts that is achieved with the documentation that has been submitted and Noni to turn to this document at all it's of I hadn't paid 72 local area risk assessments which includes a company back ground proposed conditions risk assesses the area gives you the answers as to how each risk is managed and then proposes 31 conditions which you can attach to the licence to or ensure that those conditions are complied with or on the coal with me today it on behalf of the applicant is Jeremy and Jordan garden and Stephen Lawrence Jeremy garden will be available for any questions operationally the three of them have operated over 400 out of gaming senses between them none of those Adult gaming centres have been the subjects of a review or any statutory action and we say that all of those Adult gaming centres had done exactly what your policy expects quite rightly as to do which is to promote the licence in objectives so if I achieve nothing else in five minute please look if you haven't already at the 31 conditions and examples of policies which are used to protect the vulnerable there are policies which were submitted and which are included in the documentation as to how staff are trained there is a brief intervention guide which is 39 pages of training and safeguarding the vulnerable we fully understand the importance of that it's a licensing objective it's very important to Lewisham and Deptford is incredibly form also to my clients I'm I'm sorry that's entrusted for a moment I think members were told that the the conditions on page 75 then on fact on paying 75 there on a separate thing pack you've got called Local gambling risk assessment so just so that Members can find those conditions more easily than the small part of the pack and and the conditions starts on the third page
third actually sheet of paper and it said that you know where you are thank you I'm sorry to interrupt you has just that and it to have access to the conditions easily thank you Councillors in in in sure though that documents is the most important document in terms of showing you and I'm sorry I'm going to have to some sketches from 2 m and Councillor Carlo Councillor Carter you need to be visible at all times during this meeting I appreciate your circumstances that we need to see your face all times for legal reasons and the papers that mogul covering the camera OK
OK sorry Mr. whatever the owner yet
Mr. what other tier now thank you yes that those papers the the risk assessment is the document in which we assess all of the risks and we assessed some points in a PFI the wreck those of made representations and we explain in that document how we promote the objectives and deal with the risk culminated in the 31 conditions I pressure that that's the thrust of our application councillors in how we're deal with the licensing objectives at one or two of the point briefly some probably half way through the five minutes could I ask you to there is reference in the representations to potential for crime and anti-social behaviour could I ask you to note that there is no representation from the police suggesting that that might happen or has happened at any other adult gaming centre secondly this is an adult gaming centre and not a betting office there are differences between the two the main was councillors in particular in terms of protecting children is the in Adult gaming the sense of those low Council behind week staff sits the staff or on the shop floor in effect walking around the machines speaking to customers dealing with customers as they come in that the third is that there's no comfy seat in as they would be in betting offices for people to sit down on people stuck come in they play the machines and they leave those generally no loitering in these sorts of premises it's low stake it's Ensor play the machines are second point and I know you receive legal advice the Gambling Act is written in a different way to other pieces of legislation I'm not going to go on about that because you are you will receive advice on that point are you satisfied that we have measures in place to promote these licence in objectives and as I said earlier I hope that the local area risk assessment and the conditions that we've propose at 31 conditions satisfies you or on that point it isn't a question of do we like gambling do we think this is this is a good thing does it impact on on Deptford High Street from a planning point of view as you'll know that my five minutes though but that aside to instruct younger let go for a bit longer I'm I read on for too long I promise
so I'd ask you to consider the Gambling Act and whether the specific questions in in the Gambling Act that are are put to you is this application consistent with the objectives does the applicant promote the licensing objectives and I would ask you to say that the applicant has assessed the risks and and promotes a licence in objectives should just a bit further background to the applicant's and they are here to or give evidence that there are an independent company there are incredibly experienced the 31 conditions of being born out of many years of a trade in
this these premises used to be a choral bettered office and my clients of taken over these premises so the premises have traded here for some time with a Gambling Act 2 thousand and 5 licence or beaches are betting office and fat finally we did through CLA trying to arrange to meet with those who make representation we most certainly do not see it as as an us and then
as far as I am aware apart from Councillor John Johnny the we went a we didn't make the couldn't link with him in the end but nobody was available to NEET or expressed a desire to Leeds we have and this is a final point we have in the conditions proposed a condition that we are would be in touch with any local charities including that bench outreach on a on a regular basis we would work with them we've been touch with the police on a regular basis and was we are absolutely confident based on past experience that there will be no impact at all by by working with these charities and authorities if there is anything that we need to respond to than Jeremy and Jordan will respond to that according to risk assessment changes there had and that the well done thank you very much I'm I'm just going to be fried take any questions from members of the scandal have to turn I'm Councillor Carlo I'm afraid your connection is too unstable for this meeting so on the I'm afraid on the advice of legal I'm going to have to ask you the turn and leave the meeting because I'm sorry Caroline you keep going in and out in and out in and out and we can't really have that on a on a meeting that's OK with you right OK Caron
could you can you just indicate that you've heard me you understand
South ideal thank you OK sorry about that Caroline I cakes yeah yeah thank you so you going to leave the meeting now yeah yeah have referred to the acting the traffic has condemned you have to leave the meeting of a sign at the meeting yet
OK thank you very much sorry about that I'm Councillor Carl was stuck in horrendous traffic and she's and try to attend them case you'd around sit them and and any houses is trapped traffic actually to try to get to the meeting through phone and car and that's why we were unable to that the connections and state as you could say OK so De members have any questions for the applicant
now I've got no I've got no questions indicated for me in the chatrooms so I'm now going to move on to the objector's so
I do not hold on hold on a moment hold on a moment it when you have a question need to it just indicate a question in the in the chat panel yeah so Councillor Parker powers just now indicated so then Councillor Howard are are go to your question next OK so Councillor power
thank you Chair I am Andrew on a question that I have is the staff that you gonna have working at the arm establishment were how long have they have they worked in this kind of establishment before I've seen an indication some of the training that I'm will be available for them but how long have they weren't then what experienced have they had so just to start with one of the owners of the business or the operations director are generally for a period of a month or so would always be working at the premises that they employed obviously the shop hasn't opened before so they would employ as a manager somebody with sufficient experience to be a manager of a shop and anybody else who is employed would be sufficiently are trained but as a starting point one of the owners Welsh new shop opens generally one of them will be there every day the manager would be an experienced manager because it's it's a new shop in a new area and any other staff would be would be trained accordingly
OK so I'm not going to move on to Councillor Howard can I just say once again that if you have a question that you would like to ask please indicate in the chat panel so Castle Howard
Councillor Howard young muted
OK can you hear me now
right sorry Mr. Woods
I would like to ask on for what reason was the decision made to open to ought to try to open this adult gaming centre in the High Street in Deptford on the high street and Deptford is in one of the most deprived areas of Lewisham
where there is a high level of anti-social behaviour and as it's been declared twice the national average
your risk assessment on page 11 it says that the premises are located located within a medium risk area compared to other locations when the within the imprint of 5 but there's no evidence of what those other locations are regard with regard to vulnerable people and there are other statements that you have made that there is out that term there is not much own
kind of Meathop between problems in betting shop areas and also
I'm going over into the Adult gaming Centre yet you say in your own risk assessment that there is a cross over of customers from licensed betting offices to Adult gaming centres so I am really concerned that it's difficult because obviously the place hasn't opened yet but have you really looked carefully at the appropriateness of this placement and why did you come to a decision to try and open this gaming Centre in that area
I think there were quite a few questions and though which I've tried to work to write down in terms of Deptford itself that there used to be several years ago 3 Adult gaming centres in this area there's now several betting offices and know Adult gaming centres and is a popular area where people like within means and more fully to use Adult gaming centres so it it's an area that has been popular with customers in the past and where there isn't one now and we would like to provide the one adult gaming centre for people in Deptford who like to go in so I think that's a a point as to why we we chose Deptford in terms of other locations my plight of operated premises in many many locations within the entrance C
it's always a slight double-edged sword because no location is exactly the same one location is sometimes different to another location
but is it is right to say that my clients and Jeremy can confirm specific venues if need be have operated premises were there are challenges and they've operated them incredibly successfully with the measures in place that are in this and in the documents and they haven't led to anti-social behaviour there haven't led to the vulnerable being impacted and their measures promote the licensing objectives and nobody suggests that that that isn't the case so if you put this adult gaming centre in Deptford
it will promote the licensing objectives it will not cause anti-social behaviour and the vulnerable will be protected no under 18 s are allowed into the premises its challenge 25 front Dolly straighten and customers are seen as soon as they walking and so all of those measures which unfortunately the five minutes didn't really have time to go through all those stop any of the concerns happening
I am I don't know which document and wearing the documentation it refers to cross over with with betting offices the 11
the figures should be a minimum
she unfortunately my report page 11 just gives the the report author and contact as Lisa Hooper so that that's my page 11 you become I just say at this point that I had to send it in three different documents to run this because it was printing properly so it would be slightly different soldiers refer to the document maybe fell I mean I I can assure you it's on the athletes on the first page of the local gambling risk assessment and you haven't really pulled me why you consider this to be an area of medium risk at a when that's not the kind of indication we have about what's happening in Lewisham and just as a small supplementary could you tell me why those other gambling centres Adult gambling centres are closed down I'm I couldn't then I'm sure you know Councillor that that that's not relevant to this anyway the question of demand or the whys and wide shots decides to close isn't is not a relevant issue that's songs and that is very true whether something opens us that we're not we're not deciding that the suitability of we can't decide whether somebody wants we can't decide on that are such over how many promises of open before of close down that's not matter for the Licensing Committee I'm afraid Coral sorry to touch it
I accept that the about but I am the gentleman did say that people like that kind of erm activity and how do we know that anybody in particular in that area has shown an indication that they will be a bit well we can't know that coral that we can't low that's and that's it that's not a matter for us as a Committee I'm afraid
and Policy movements are put an application in and it's for us to decide on that this evening how day alright
and unfortunately Councillor from from a general points of view about that's quite right if if we open a nobody goes in then Palace amusements have lost the money that there were spent doing it opened second staff on and the renovating the premise of OK and in answer to the the point Chairman I think it is a fair question
I'm just read in the local area risk assessment which which has been significantly updated as well the Local Area Risk Assessment acknowledges the crime and anti-social behaviour on Deptford High streets but states that the that that crime is not directly connected to Adult gaming centres so you haven't you you have a position where Deptford High Street is what it is and reflected in the risk assessments and it reflected in the representations but that isn't it isn't like that because of Adult gaming centres and the adult gaming centre would not attract further anti-social behaviour or impact on the vulnerable so that that's why we have we are made so if you were just assessing Deptford High Street and for producing a report on it you're report might say there's anti social behaviour and there's issues and therefore it should be risk assessed as this that we're risk assessing it in connection with an Adult gaming Centre and the risk connected to the adult game in centuries medium because it's not like a late night pub that might attract lots of people anti-social behaviour it's a fairly low key and virements that doesn't attract anti social behaviour so that's why were medium OK thank you very much for that I've got a question here from Councillor Mike I sought ask a couple of questions herself and can I ask you and and a word about the reason for a 24 7 licence and can I also ask if you can have a door supervisor so we we we say Council that we would risk assess whether we need a door supervisor that would be undertaken by an over not seen him in an Ghanassy you just say Jeremy says hello in a minute so you can actually see who are ill the owner of the business is yeah whenever whenever they open new premises certainly within them 25 in in areas like this that they would be down there every day and they they would make a decision as to whether they feel a door supervisor is required and an officer they'd liaise with the police over that point as well that they do have some Door supervisors in some venues they don't have them in other venues it's a decision which is taken when the premises are opened and in terms of 24 hours but as you'll loan unlike betting offices where the Gambling Act says he betting office licences 7 am until 10 pm
unless you apply to extend that it doesn't say that an adult game in sensors and the fact is in in this day in age we would like to retain the flexibility of a 24 7 licence we operate other we have operated other 24 7 licences that Jeremy consult about very briefly whether we would open 24 7 again depends on the air out depends on what happens after we open if it if there are issues that we need to deal with we may not if customers don't want to come in we wouldn't open
this stage we would like the flexibility of that licence but there's no guarantee that that's what we would ultimately trade
I mi
thank you Councillor wise
Councillor was had a question yes Chair thank you very much on about to escape Mr. Woods thank you very much for your presentation of ugly looking at these 31 conditions that you focused on as part of your a risk assessment and some of them are Phaeleh pretty standard aren't they and should be there any way rather than is a an added condition things like fire alarm and smoke detection systems that it should be installed an incident log should installed and I would have thought an intruder alarm was part of that package as well so own
perhaps she could focus on some of these conditions that are you consider to be new and innovative and as such the application
yes I didn't say new new and innovative were in a bit of a garden so the word what I said was that these conditions promote the licensing objectives and as Lisa indicated at the start our go-to show how we protect children and the vulnerable and some don't and ensures best we can with regard to anti-social behaviour the parts of the mast standard standard operating measures that you would expect to be in place and I don't try to suggest otherwise
some of them are certainly beyond that so for example than the neighbourhood liaison conditions at 27 28 and 29 the licensee will make available a contact number for local residents for them to contact the licensee will contact then shout reach and and local charities
on a quarterly basis to work in partnership and identify local issues and and in other areas that's been a simple as vanish outreach or a charity saying these two or three people who are issues can you not let them into your premises so so those those three conditions are certainly very relevant to Deptford condition 20 16 with the Chairman point that it as well as risk assessing the number of staff required and risk assessing the need for SEA door staff
that the staff training conditions at 20 21 and 22 18 refused an entry customers these conditions
all measures which are in place to promote those Licensing objectives at number 9 there is a challenge 25 proof of age so I know you have dealt with that as a committee when it comes to pubs but it's not a case of somebody 18 just been I anybody who doesn't look 25 is challenged immediate that they put footing the premises by the staff at we have a MAG lock on the front door so there is if there are issues that the magnet can be used as well so taken in the round all of these conditions with the training pauses that they go to show you how we promote the Licensing objectives which is obviously but obviously the go beyond that as well they give you the security that if you grant the licence you're not Gransnet on the basis of and reward saying this and that will happen you are granting it knowing that these are conditions on the licence that have to be complied with their else the licence would be reviewed okay I'm cannot ask another question that I must get back to the the door supervisor issue your word that you from your own we've said the same thing that is a Deptford High Street is a area with a lot of anti-social behaviour and I just wonder why you wouldn't have thought considered a door supervisor as part one of your conditions and would you consider adding that to your list of conditions the reason we don't put put that as a as a condition to start with is the
and this is obviously the difficulty that we have to get over today's the difficulty getting over is the way in which Adult gaming centres do as themselves attract anti social behaviour and often don't need to have door staff at the premises clearly if it transpires that at that a member of unless I adore staff is required than our would like Jeremy just to give you his absolute assurance that that will happen because he's had that that there are premises that have dossed supervisors and if if it required it will be
OK OK so I think Jeremy has popped up on the screen there is that right agreed Councillors yet briefing and Yasir was can use the chat box flues
just as as hundreds and confirmation it finesse I door staff if required would be called on immediately and we know that when siting 25 last you attend venues of which two had a real week risk-assessed in they required all staff so we got the man and that was in Wood Green and encountering me an innocent OK thank you I'm cats why should a supplementary
thank you Chair errm Mr. those arm and both those to say that you are going to engage with them bench outreach they are loveless organisation in they do great work there so it would be very helpful
My question is your condition 31 where you say the ATM shall be located in a place of requires any customer who wishes to use it to cease gambling how does that work place
actually gratuitous Jeremy on that point with regard to its examines thank you sorry I anything asked to be at least 2 half metres from a gaming machines the person has to physically get get up now Chair walk away from the machine they couldn't be pressing a button on avenging and
in an ATM at the same time so that he cleared break in play a clear stopping their gaming session
thank you OK thank you so
alright says that I think that's all the questions from councillors for Mr. Woods so I'm now going to move on to the objectors to those people who aren't speaking and could you please are get your physio off and Councillors could I just please make sure when you're not speaking that your microphone is neutered please yeah thank you very much it causes feedback that's why it's important that I and my microphone is on because I'm chairing the meeting and I can't be constantly going back with and force thank you for that so we just gotta go over go on to the objector's now so in order on my and guidance tonight I've got Councillor Dromey Declan Flynn her in a Russell and gas situ and they are from the deficit citing their be sharing their five minutes so I'm going to welcome Councillor Dromey to the Licensing Committee Sir outline his objections please cats a dry me
are you there
he's not there are currently is not here I can't is not indicating don't out that he has not left the meeting he said in the meeting somewhere so I'm gonna go on now to Declan Flynn as Declan thinner available
good evening Mr. Flynn was right to put your microphone on her health of canoeing
good evening good evening but if they got five minutes I'm a start time now road thank you in a second floor in my academic background is in psychology I've primary degrees and counselling and psychology amassed grey and addiction psychology and my doctoral research explorers unconscious factors in decision making I'm a registered member of the British Association for counselling and psychotherapy and Federation drug and alcohol professionals and the chief executive of Pen shows reach benches that nationally recognised Deptford best charity working with homeless and vulnerable people
by vulnerable I mean people with mental health issues substance use issues and people have risked detriment because of violence exclusion discrimination and poverty and looking at the local landscape poverty and social issues in the immediate vicinity of this proposed gambling our kid are well documented
Lewisham is in the top 20 per cent of deprived local authorities in England with Deptford and New Cross having the highest levels of deprivation figures from a range of sources Panter stark picture of that the current situation locally we have the highest proportion of working age residents on out-of-work benefits in London and almost 10 percent or higher than average numbers in precarious employment salaries below the UK average property rental costs for five 100 pounds a month higher than at the national average child poverty rates in excess of 35 percent reliance on food banks increasing by 20 percent annually residence more likely to have long-term mental health problems and the London or England average higher than average heart heroin use crack cocaine use at double the national average the fourth highest rated massive violence in London educational achievement lower than the national average premature mortality higher than the national average and we have the 12th highest homelessness rate in England the size of this proposed to Adult gaming centres Estyn 10 minutes walk from then shows reach a new King Street the 9 9 9 Club and Deptford Broadway the bare Church on Franklin Street and Deptford reach on the NHS Community mental Health Service on speed with Street all locations for Quentin by homeless and vulnerable people who are experiencing poverty exclusion deprivation and mental health issues it's also close to supported accommodation for vulnerable people and Edward Street and the surrounding area of SE gate has many people living in substandard private rented accommodation dependent on benefits and vulnerable to exploitation
and looking at the literature around homelessness and gambling the unanimous acceptance in the round of health and social care that's a correlation between gambling and homelessness Attwood 20 16 so deeply get your Cambridge University available through homeless Link found homeless individuals are up to 10 times more likely than the general population to suffer from gambling related problems often gambling machines numerous studies in the United Kingdom the US and Canada have identified the link between problem gambling and homelessness
the complaint prevalence of lifelong pathological gambling ranges from 29 point 8 2 58 point 2 percent among currently homeless people or people using community their services so these also identify so populations for homeless people at increased risk of developing problem gambling including people newts living on the streets who are over the age of 50 research research research describes her multiple concerns associated with poverty unemployment bankruptcy on affordable rent evictions all contribute to the connection between problem gambling and homelessness problem gambling is also associated with a variety of psychiatric conditions and people who experience homelessness and analysis of survey data from individuals experience and homeless phoned the problem gambling was the saucy ended with an increased increased risk of beating diagnostic criteria for psychiatric disorders and substance dependencies and this is supported by other studies I can make a reference list available for all the studies used in this this examination of the literature so to conclude the association between problem gambling homelessness poor mental health substance abuse and poverty in a stressed the need to protect and safeguard vulnerable people from potential abuse as a society we need to adopt a multifaceted approach to this issue reducing poverty creating meaningful fulfilling employment investing treatment services and regarding housing as a basic human rate well some if not all of these are currently beyond the reach of a very effective but cash-starved local authority there is one immediate action that will have and that's restricting the proliferation of gambling outlets therefore I asked if the Council refused permission for this development the people of Deptford deserve to be nurtured not abused paying him
thank you very much for that I'm very I'm heartfelt objection no Mr. Flint K so I'm not gonna I'm calling Jojoy these are yet Joe
I catch the train is not there so I'm now going to move on to the depths of society and I've got to speak as I've got Helena Angus so in whichever order you'd like to speak so could even Helena height
unsuitable or two and a half minutes I'm going to do three minutes actually and then handover to US Sinn Féin here as much just to introduce yourself on the counter Deptford society we represent residents and businesses of the High Street and the applicant has responded to suggestions by proposing a series of conditions but we believe the local area profile in the risk assessment how CIL notable emissions which of elephants I'll just run through those sperm at least three of the schools mentioned are within a 400 metre radius of the premises but the assessment also fails to know that there's a large concentration of cyst form and higher education colleges in the area these Aleutian college Trinity lobby and they both our courses for under 18 s and Belize College on Creek Road take students as young as 14 none of these colleges have uniforms and astute is very likely to visit the High Street survey my youth site for the Gambling Commission established two sets of students gambled in the preceding month 54 percent of those who do so to make money
we know that the applicant wants to to distinguish between agencies and betting shops by the fact that they attract a greater proportion of women are study for Gamble aware in July this year found that more than a third of women rated as problem gamblers come from black Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds and this is only slightly lower for men and more than half of all residents and even the New Cross are from BAME backgrounds and the hormone has mentioned is directly adjacent to the premises as two of the Shas offering cash layers within a minute's walk
at the Shaftesbury Christian Centre just around the corner has submitted a planning application to rebuild the church and absurdity studio flats for young people in housing need
as already thoroughly gambling premises on the High Street two of them within 60 metres of premises
in terms of crime media reports show that AG sees are attractive to robbers they often low at knifepoint and because suffer to me with a customers to look for signs of problem gambling the more vulnerable to violence attack just picked up references to knifepoint robberies as a palace amusement arcades in 20 16 in culture still Folkestone 20 17 Ipswich 20 18 twice in Kilburn in 20 19 in Margate twice but also seen that our local SNP officers and residents who live on the high street of reported betting shops our favourite by drug dealers because they might be out of sight of CCTV cameras and police cameras and a when we don't think because of the size of the premises then the staff will be able to prevent or even witness deals taking place while carrying out their duties and the CCTV will be a deterrent only if Pepe if the operators reviewing the footage daily reporting back on it and we also objected to the 24 7 opening for the recent of the fact that this very little noise on the high street and as it's a residential area and can I hand over now ensue gas thank you very much OK
what could we think are did not look or listen and I represent the yeah shopkeepers along the High Street Santa I've been on the piste report best part of 25 years and our objection out signatures you got that you seem perfectly or you've seen are were gathering the matter of about 15 minutes so it shows you the strength of feeling among the shopkeepers now I've heard LP work former Andrew in respect so that they could be doing social work with the local averaged as societies this of these on social workers there people here to make money and they're going to attract the vulnerable in society and when the vulnerable turn up and let's set let's assume they got Cern these people away or hang about outside my shop look shops and the occult as he social behaviour last time when corals was open there was open drug-dealing happening there and you know what a theft rate our shots went up and the recently when it was as they needed money to buy the drugs they needed money to go and gamble and fortunately since cold shutdown all of this subsided so it's outer something that theft from our shops the ones we pay rates for the ones who pay rents for once when work hard are affected by shops such as these what do you call it adult gaming centre or
a betting shop that there to make money for themselves they're not there to look after the young and vulnerable and the elderly and the homeless there there purely to make money and that the debt making mistakes that this is something that's been happening their chosen a poor area because they want these people to carry stack get which quick and you know whatever means necessary to lose their money these people are desperate and that's what we're looking for the looking for those people who are vulnerable I can't ask thank you very much for that so before the any Members have any questions or any of the objectors as though none in the panel so I'm although Arthur C be OK now will leave that for now so I just want to ask
Mr. Woods actually and Mr. Woods ether Mr. would rather which your clients be prepared to take a reduction in your opening hours
I think I was we discussed it before the now I'm just asking you whether you to really take it up with rather keep the flexibility of 20 11 yes alright then thank you very much alright so
I'm going to it this is now going to be the end of the Licensing Committee because we can make our decision in another meeting which obviously the objectors and the applicant spoke V at what will what happens after this is that you will be sent an e-mail of the sit of the decision that we've that we've made so
sorry but you will be sent an e-mail to a decision that was made within the next few days I'm sure that probably will be tomorrow if anything else so and so
does anyone feel they wanted to do very summarise your case
Mr. Woods sorry that you just put on a single sorry seen its ad so well if you if you allow me 60 seconds and I would appreciate it can easily go hurt yet we clearly her heard some heartfelt submissions from from Declan and other other matters from the Deptford society are and if there was a general decision discretion on whether you wanted to grant all not then everybody understand some of the points they made but that those I'd ask you to apply that the Gambling Act under that's not a great thing for a lawyer to say because I'm relying on on the Act but it's written in a certain way we we sincerely strongly dispute the suggestions made by the last speaker that were attracting vulnerable to just because there is poverty and deprivation in the area that does not mean an application should be refused and doesn't mean that we can't operate correctly under the Act as we do in many other town so I do quite a lot of what was said specific to owes we'd we disagree with and say there's no evidence and the police as a final word do not come before you and say that that corals caused this problem don't run this licensing had asked to attach weight to that councillor and thank you for the excellent anything I came into it so I'm I'm going to get upset start everybody's heard them I'm Gus I can see you want to see what to say something and you're just going to such a I believe you're what you're gonna do you gonna repot what Mr. Woods's December but it's very it's on a getting it going to be more of what you just said earlier on is that correct because I I understand and I not as it was like a rabbit I thought I should know the undercover police used to patrol the area and trust me the problem exists because people hang around outside the shops there unwanted nuisance on the high street and that's why this happens it's not because but good what Jackman said was that another not tracked upon about of course attracted vulnerable not to see me about shop I can't work these people come to earn a money by either wait by stealing or by begging look-at-me bags are on High Street these people to come there because nothing better to do on its go for a hobby they go to try to make money and you know in gambling the only person who wins is the hats
OK thank you gifts for your it another very passionate and objection so thank you very much for that and I'm now going to
as a journalist meeting just let your so there's no items for the supplementary Committee this evening that that's not happening tonight I think everyone's heard what they need to say both both cases have been summed up adequately I would say so I'm now this life remote meeting has now ended at so Members if you sign out and go into the the break the next meeting the breakaway room OK thank you very much everyone