Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel - Tuesday, 24th November 2020 at 7:05pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel
Tuesday, 24th November 2020 at 7:05pm 









Start of webcast
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1 Minutes
2 Declarations of Interests
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3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response - Update Report
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4 Update on temporary measures to support safer walking and cycling in response to the COVID 19 pandemic
5 Key Decision Plan
6 Decisions Made by Mayor on 11 November 2020 - open session
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7 Scrutiny Update Report
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  1. Webcast Finished

Kevin James I'd like to welcome everybody here tonight in the teams' meeting and looking in via webcam I to Lewisham council's overview and scrutiny business panel
we've got an interesting agenda tonight without any thought that you would like to get on with an agenda and the first thing to announces that we have apologies from Councillor Liam current for tonight's meeting and apologies for lateness from Councillor John Muldoon so those can be recorded please I would like to ask colleagues of the have any matters arising from the minutes from the last meeting

1 Minutes

if anyone does please indicate if not can I add take that as a true record of the last meeting

2 Declarations of Interests

just a shout out a nod that's fine until we're going to get them to which Declaration of interests or any colleagues members of the committee have any declarations of interest to Mick with regards to any of the next items again and he Colley please indicate in the chat all shout out if the House if not
which I don't believe so we'll move on
Southern it's Nicholson Millbank here explained that the can I just declare get again I'm a member of the Lucian level clarity which might be relevant on the cosy 3 of that item 3 report thank you very much John that'd be noted

3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response - Update Report

it before come under item 3 scrutiny of the Council's COVID-19 response update report which will be presented by Russell consider Director public services and Catherine Burma Director of public Health I just want to remain colleagues that if you wish to make a question as the question was a common please use the chat function as usual when you first or speak please introduce yourself for everyone with your name and position and without any further ado could ask it would it be Ralph first 0 Catherine to present this report and kill thank you thank you John I don't know whether Kim once say a few words first door whether she'd slightly to introduce it
thank you that set out just like to say a few words instruction Akhil how you can I thank you so thank you for that you were going to say is that you can try and I just think it's in the portable I was reading this report again the and the length of time that we'd been bring the reports to the business Panel and I think it's been a really useful exercise enthralling in 1 point all of the information around the Council's response to him to Koeverden and it's only when you you look at the information in that report you was each remind yourself of the scale of the challenge that that we've been dealing with the length of time but it's but it's been going on for and I just want to bring a few key points to members Henson really just on a general basis that obviously the detail will be for alphorn and in Catherine to
I think it's not just the the scale of the global pandemic can that we're facing but it's the pace at which things are now changing their speed of which were having to respond so the when you look back at it only a few weeks ago we're in Iteere level then the went him her locked down to then we heard just saved the cold winter plan half an hour ago we were told one Christmas arrangements were going to be some will be going to back back into another tale arrangement it before Christmas and then another tiered arrangement after Christmas along side of his course when dealing with a list to trace scheme were supplying PPE to local organisations where staffing the help line where about a stars and local targeted asymptomatic testing and you can be assured that we will be working very closely with the NHS on the vaccination programme when that is bound at when we've already had a number of meetings about the logistics around that and how we can support and that the roles of the activation per than I'm particularly keen seeded into to hear any views and ideas from members about the rollers yourselves and ward Kansans in that programme more likely to be rolled-out in the new year rather than before Christmas but and it's going to be a logistical challenge that is going to be and Kinge Saverley and I have an preserve entered to some Members about the impact able miss on the workforce that hasn't changed the even though the staff are under enormous pressure they are doing I think a hugely and magnificent role in responding to this challenge and I've heard all of you before I applaud and forget Labour the staff and I know that always goes a long long way that Matt in great deal disinter here that the Members are so and approached him all that they're doing and but also I know and the urbane hence evening what had just said I know just how important their at the role of scrutiny is not just during COVID but that all the time and that set to scrutiny in that role of adding value to the things that we're doing is is very very important
that said I know there will be and there has been some impact on the the and agendas and reports on the items that that come before scrutiny and at the moment I think that impact were trying to manage as best we can together balance right of ensuring with focusing on and maintenance that important democracy that transparency but so time managing the pressures and commitments on staff as well so will continue to do that and will continue to appreciate the
the thanks and feedback that you give us for the work that we were doing but I'm I think to be Mistley saving by if I didn't just remind all of us of that the pressures that were under the pressure that's coming and the ensuring ongoing nature of the work there were all facing at the moment in the toll that it takes on on all of us and I think bringing to life the words are written on The Siemens report in the way the massing Kathryn do is always very very important and valuable to get his bat at in sit-ins I'm and use the proud of the work birds that routes from Katherine in particular have been doing since March and I think it's been externally the way they responded so Amando but Chair I will hand over to and rattling
happy to stay and take place after this item but will then be dining off tend to leave you to the other items that again thank you
thank you carry on so I'm intending to present just few key points in the pool on behalf of Catherine and I then we're happy to take question so this is as Kim saying this latest in the series of updates to how we respond to the pandemic and to give you some data on what's happening and I'll just pick out a few key points in this killing saying it is very fast moving so I'd also just give you a few up-to-date figures since the report was issued so skim saying since I was last here we've seen that second wave really take hold
in Lewisham and across the country we've seen infection rates rise and as a result we went into that the second locked down some differences with the lockdown this time around so at schools and colleges remained open no formal shooting approach this time and more shops were allowed to stay open but we also had to step up our response firstly to ensure that our critical services can continue but also to support some specialist areas and can mention a few of those so we now are responsible for pluck supplying before a personal protective equipment we are supporting the national test and trace system with our own local system that went live last week aims to contact a covert positive cases just to find that work who their close contacts were so that we can contact them and ask them to isolate
were busy now distributing business grants to those businesses that have had to close the being read impacted by the lockdown we setting up a local test booking system so that we can target some of the the tests and we are to do in the new version of shielding now supporting the clinically extremely vulnerable cases contacting them just to check their OK and where they need support are appointed into where they can get that and
as he mentions one of a number of local authorities now planning to do what's been called targeted asymptomatic testing this follows on from the programme that Liverpool trialed where they did the mass testing our approaches looking to target key frontline workers we're thinking in Scholes care homes
and where we've got outbreaks and what we're going to be looking to there is to fine people who got the virus but show no signs of having it so that asymptomatic and then to identify them and then get them to self-isolate so they don't pass it on plus we got that roll out of the backs relations not clear yet what our role will be in that but and we're pretty sure we will have a role and we are doing all of that using our COVID action Team so that's made up of staff taken from non critical areas across the council and they're being asked to work on the response so far we'd got 87 staff active delivering some of those things I mentioned but we anticipate that numbs gonna grow in the next few weeks to to maintain a response and they do this alongside loads of other things that budget cuts getting ready for Brexit managing other instance so just took to be aware we have a lower staff running round trying to keep things going now in terms of the data the report covers some key datasets the set out their fear information Iceland to comment on a couple of those and some of the key ones so in terms of 17 affection right you'll see from that that the the rate has been rising and until the last few days that that it has continued to rise what we are now seeing an it's a relief that that's beginning to stable eyes and slowly starting to reduce that increase that we've seen not just devolution but across London and nationally is thought to be some of the pre lockdown gatherings
but now that knockdowns being in place
three weeks we see the impact of that locked down and coming in and those figures starting to reduce so also good news is that Lucian has got one of the lowest rates in London with seven-day infection rate per 100 thousand 100 21 and then specifically looking at the over-sixties which is one we've been focusing on recently that seven days infection rate is at 50 both of those with a move seen steady off in the last few days and starting to reduce some of the worst infection rates in the country right now a Downing Kent's where their seven-day infection rates in wanted rose running at 631 so quite a while above us and we're comparatively low and that's thanks to everybody complying with those roles in the Barra that's really helping to make
sure we keep those rates down but what's really important is that continues so that we can keep those rates as low as possible keep our residents safe and since we submitted report we've been told we're coming out look down on the 2nd December there was a question mark wasn't there over whether that would happen on the second that's now being confirmed and were into a revised tier system and arrangements for Christmas especially lenders Christmas so those have been widely reported I'm not going to comment further on those but we are happy to take questions
thanks Ralph
the before asking her colleagues for their contribution edges one as compacted Kames where opening locks and firstly actually said and as we do and we want to as Ethel the words of the understanding and support that we have for staff as Councillors on this committee and beyond it's sad it's sometimes hard to put into words and to make it not sound like 20 or whatever but you know people do really appreciate these the work and sacrifices that staff across the borough are doing and in our says that if I put it that way they're agencies air in the NHS etc. across across the borough
I'd also like to echo because I was going to mention something about scrutiny and so it was that was next to echo what Kim air raising of the put recognition of the importance of scrutiny
in the process in the council and we have to have person understanding with each other as just ex-presidents expressed about the situation at with staff and not to understand this but it is good to hear came as Chief Executive point out the importance of scrutiny in end pops in in in this tangle of executive may muddle in there which is pretty unique and compatriot of us
the role of Councillors junior scrutiny process those leads to better decisions and I think that's recognised the cross of by officers and by the Executive and is how we get to do that and as I say that's where we confer understanding of the situations so I just want to echo Kim's words on board appreciation of staff and the importance to scrutiny
I am so without any further ado
and can I say colleagues of wish to back at a question so will take the first social becomes law Campbell and a further by Councillor card fees
thank you Chair and Councillor Campbell I'm I'm laughing last and I forgot to introduce myself though here ago so thank you came in thank you Ralph I am my question is the Catherine just the some clarity really
two-part question one is it is it the same test that people people who are symptomatic and those people who are nonsense thematic to they get the same test that's one and can people who are nonsense thematic pass the virus on I'm a bit confused because much I would have thought that you had to have symptoms in order to Parfitt OK as infected you've got the virus and excess leap there's no transmission so I just wanted to check that and then check whether or not is the same test that people who are symptomatic a nonsense Matic debt
and Juliet tells the card
thank you are to be slightly by surprise forgot I was following on like that and so I was pleased when for Ralph was introducing the report that he mentions Gatacre more details of 5 point 1 3 about the lateral testing
because it sounds like we are going to be able to use it for some sort of supporting our own tactics or strategy or both in the Borough but I do want to raise some concerns I've got with that I understand the you know we're doing this fits effectively part of a pilot for national for the national approach of these tests
and it seems to me while I understand this we'll be having to redeploy a lot of staff potentially over 50 to take part in this pilot so and and my concern comes from reading about it you know newspapers which isn't always the best places but you know sage advisers were were quoted in those and I have read sage advice which says we should be prioritising testing of people with symptoms
hand which does have an effective track and trace and isolate system you know the track and trace system nationally hasn't been great but now that we bring in local authorities is getting a lot better but we still just don't have enough people isolating and that seems to be the reason
I entered people isolating have been in contact with someone with coven so that seems to be a reason why the virus's times yet again out control again so the pilot as I see it as I did say a by now beginning to feel a bit reassured some are looking for more reassurance Ralph
is that you know the risks or is that just random people are going to be without symptoms
show up to get tested and it sought to could be a real waste of public resources when we can be better spending the money on finding ways of helping people to isolate for example and gone sage member said it was akin to finding a transient needle in a haystack so not just find the needle in a slap a woman in those there at one point then goes again so
and I've also understand the although these lateral 10 flow test are getting better still about 25 per cent of them are showing up negative reserved for showing negative are actually false negatives which could be so we could be people could become an in being given a negative test and are going out spreading the virus before they become symptomatic depending on your answer to Juliet question
so I just want reassurance rarely from perhaps Rathven and Catherine that is why we agreed to enter the Pilar to what extent you you disagree it's a waste of the Inner public resources to do it and and coming here a bit more about how we can use these tests her support
bringing the virus down in the Borough rather than just diverting are precious staff's time into something that might not be very helpful thank you and I should have introduced myself and Patrick coloured share of public accounts Committee I wanted to explore Chair Safer and stronger committee I'm sure you the ball get law opportunity to sell the meeting to introduce a separate again which is always there welcome had be Catherine or roof over one's to pick pick up to where replied the those questions case and came obviously but at the south again tufted perhaps on a number of
Catherine gonna pick up the first of the past year yet and some of them are direct or public health so just about the test I'm investments to Councillor Campbell's questions and so the PC are swab test is the gold still the gold standard the symptomatic testing so that sites' that we have it's a mobile testing units local testing sites
I am so that will still be the the test that you use it you have symptoms so still directing people to book a test by 1 1 9 or by the online portal as a mobile testing unit lake testing site into get home testing kit if you have symptoms and the natural flow devices that are being piloted involved out at the moment them they are going to be the mainstay for asymptomatic testing so
and even when we do detect a positive case for maisonettes and from the use of those devices we will still require a PCR test for confirmatory testing and that's what's happened in lots of the pilots to date so far so there is still a distinction or separation between the two types of testing and a whether you have seemed to be spread the PCL still the gold standard lateral flow devices mainly going to be but these pilots asymptomatic testing Amina J on the pilot results will know we can use the lack of load of cinematic testing but that's not what we're doing at the moment in terms of infectious period whether you have symptoms or not so we do know that some there is some transmission I'm before people develop symptoms so you could be infected with COVID-19 I'm in the few days before you become symptomatic you are able to transmit the virus so that's why as part of our contact tracing we do to look back for two days before somebody developed symptoms who they've been in contact with and then 10 days after they've developed and symptoms so within that infectious period we do look for and who you been in close contact with we ask those contacts to self-isolate so
and that's really why they might be benefit from this asymptomatic testing because if you can pick up the virus or the pick up the fact that somebody's infected early enough and you do it just be in that period just before they developed symptoms you could isolate them prevent transmission so an unsafe world so that's really the gain for the asymptomatic testing their so am that's what we're piloting were thing if there is value among others natural foods of Isas to capture that asymptomatic carriage of infection and prevent onward transmission so I hope that's all Councillor Campbell questions the yet and I was I was just it was it a bit like a pat was saying is that I'm concerned that we're using resources testing people who are not symptomatic and I recognise you know you can transmit Peshawar affected that you can also help infection and never pass it on because you never comes into Matic so that that's what I was concerned about and I didn't realise that they were to progress the tress that's what would have to check the thank you very much Katherine Lady thought they put them and I'm Councillor cultures and France start off and I can follow up all I said yeah I'm happy come have to start off so I hate from the Council point of view we really keen to take part in anything where we think it will help reduce the spread of the virus and we do think there is something to using these rapid tests hence as being keen to get involved you're right to be concerned though because we don't have unlimited resource and certainly the lessons learned from Liverpool in the way they approached it which was mass testing they would try to test their whole population over a short period of time was that you needed a huge amount of resource and actually they didn't pick up a huge number of cases result of that and so that's why in the roll out of this now to the next batch of local authorities that are going to take this on is we are refining that and taking the ability to use these tests and use them in a much more focused targeting way and say that's why we are looking to target people who we think we need to get to identify very quickly so I mentioned earlier when looking to target particular groups care-home workers schoolteachers where they are exposed potentially to the virus and where also then being potentially having vast but not showing symptoms could actually spread it to a large number of people some very vulnerable people very quickly so we look as though in a very targeted way now if we did do the mass testing the calculation roughly is it would take 55 staff per 10 thousand tests and initially the the thoughts of vein will get you 10 thousand Test in the first week and then after that do 10 percent of the population a week but the whole thing has very quickly moved on from that because I think everybody realised that to do that
it would just be a massive task and not necessarily the best use of resources so I know Catherine's Workaway close to the south his colleagues so that this is just a loose approach it's a south-east London approach and I guess we'll be a whole London wide approach to using these tests to get to people in advance of them showing symptoms get them out of circulation and keep those Test down and the final point I'd add before handing over to cattily the other what thing we're trying to do that with still thinking this show is how we can empower people to do this rather than the local authority having to train people up to do these tests
in the settings were talking about lights LA olés like the Care homes they have got people who have got some health backgrounds like school nurses stuff like that
and in the care homes as well now if we can get them to live a lateral test then the strain on local authority resolve some public health resources is reduced so that to some of the thinking so far but it's very much in development Catherine was anything you want to add to them
all laughing minutes I'd just echo or that Routh a Seddon I'm just note that there is an opportunity cost of anything that we do in with in relation to COVID-19 response and from a public health perspective so we was bear that in mind and try to make sure that arm we sources I've directed it what could be that we are the most effective interventions and so the as well so this is a pilot am it could have significant benefits for all I am targeted population groups to present our to prevent onward transmission from amazing must individual so I'm will continue to develop that along the ninth that mouth Alan's already
I have
shall be able to call on their comes La Mon by consider Pat do every follow up to a year of those questions and says
May I just want to say thank you very much the very good no helpful answers I've got a slight concern about the thoughts negatives but as opposed as long as you are aware of that and you're still you're still is the got a much better chance of identifying a positive which as you say of angle take on to take a further test then I can in her sounds like you're taking into account the
the costs cost benefits of this so yet that was very helpful thank you thank you again before not took Telegraph Hill volleys puzzler tablets written in the message will you be able to share the data on the number of tests on the number that test positive and negative how long will the pilot last if
you could add those questions and the answers to that Ralph and Catherine and your answers from and I'm going to call on now from Councillor Millbank that first actually probably Councillor sober followed by Councillor Millbank R A Telegraph Hill comrades as a sober Thatcher
I have listened to I am the Chair of the Turing on people Select Committee loot saw the must remember that I listened very carefully to my colleagues questions and the very detailed answers I must confess at this stage I am not sufficiently reassured to let the topic rest here my sources of concern are from the British medical Journal
I'm going to quote a couple of the public health experts
and there are very very strong scepticism of the oppression moonshot understand this as a refined version I'm in the BMJ says that we are using unvalidated technology
Chris Ham the former chief executive of the King's Fund says a wish the government were more focused on getting our current system working Martin McKee professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine says that we should be beefing up our local test and Troedsson isolate system Anthony Costello was
from a direct maternal and child health at the WHO
he called the waste and corruption and cosmic scale because of the amount of money being paid into the private sector
I don't think it's a professor of by a static of University Birmingham he's concentrating on the danger of the number of false positives rather than the Force negatives at Councillor Kaur deluded to because if you are forced caused positives you have people who are isolated that don't need to that effect on are so show and could economic well being and he talked about a risk of backfiring I'm a lay person but
there is sufficient that placed in my mind from the experts who are guiding me to request that you pause and revisit your decision it may be the after visiting you are embolden to carry on it may be that having looked at some of these criticisms you feel confident that you have addressed them in your preparation we continue
but I personally would feel much better if I were to know that following this conversation with us here at the scrutiny committee you were able to go back and and your decision and reassess the evidence for and against commit very precious Lucian resources and to a project that may not be the most efficient use of the staff and and the resources that the Council has
Hanslick Councillor Hamilton Place became not sure cancer journal bank and here for majority Labour group on the Chair and I've got battle set off your Councillor along account for Sauber and my question that's not be to a different there's been asked before I just wanted to draw attention in reports of 5 point 1 9 commend everyone involved has been boggy recruited these 152 Champions I am one myself so I know that they are important in terms of as a mechanism to help disseminate accurate and up-to-date information so good to see that number cut the questions on this on a point of clarification and can I just check do we know if our kind of who this poorly hovered 15 people are in terms are spread across the Borough whatever and also look at more information about some a notice you said you currently working on a similar model for younger people which I think would be really good but interested to know that more that hell that's going and my last question my next question is just some 5 point T3 obviously welfare you've explained the differences from the first wave of the second wave in terms of clinically vulnerable what the advice is a budget pick up this point that with the Foad I just want to be reassured I think I'm I think I know the answers I just want to double check that obviously the still coordination going on I think that in the third sector are working with the Council of the coordination of the food to make sure the food older phone services and the food banks are still kind of adequate the your share resources or whatever because what we know has happened it there's been a shift may be away from that's older people to actually as others in the community could have lost their jobs etc who still need access to these up to the school services I've just to confer a confirmation that we some still coordination going on which were perhaps we're more aware of them directly involved in as a Council thank you
but John overload officers lead officers wish to
shall I start yeah so in in terms of the pilot I don't think there's a a set time period for that pilot at the moment as I say things very fast moving and in developments yes we will get data from that pilot and I think that will be publicly shared data in terms of the numbers that come out of that and a shooting we are allowed share it we don't still be happy to share it with you just coming on to Councillor Sobel's comments
thank you very well read and I I don't have the some of that information that you're referring to but and this is something as a say that is developing I think what we aren't doing this on our own we are working very closely with health with Professor Fenton who is leading the London response many London authorities are involved in this second piloting of it isn't just a couple of London boroughs is there's quite a lot my understanding is where there's some concern over the accuracy of where it identifies a positive case which is why they go on to have a second test that's because it's based on I think I identifying antibodies and some of those might be old and Catherine's probably get a correct me on the technical stuff it but it's actually considered quite accurate where it finds that that is a negative case and we're and there's a high degree of confidence on that negative results where as positive and hence they go on to have a second check
I think everyone is quite right to be concerned about the amount of resource that could have gone into this had it been a mass testing approach in the same way Liverpool they then that's what are first fears were but very quickly I think everyone is beginning to realise the value of this is in a very targeted approach and what we are thinking in Lewisham and I and I think also in the SE is how do we empower people to use this new testing and it gives a very quick result just to try and minimise that spread and in terms of Council Milbank's questions I don't have the deep we do know who the Community Champions are and we're in regular contact as hopefully we're in regular contact you keeping you up to date on on everything that's happening are not up to speed on how its developing until the young into Champions but
because that some of the sort of age the Borough we really what's child connect with and so really important piece of work that I'm when we come next time are I'll make sure to bring some information on that and yes you're right in terms of the food we are making sure when we contact those clinically extremely vulnerable if there are food issues they know what where and how to get that support and the third sector is being as amazing as it was first time round in that support and we are keeping a check on the food banks to make sure they are resourced in in a position to be able to respond to that and I have cashing wants to come back on any of that testing yet that's about just adds I'm a bit on the testing so I'm the BMJ paper some of their public Health though about their lateral Flotus you know where sited on and I think all public health colleagues you know we work from I will try to the best possible way from an evidence base so you know we wouldn't be trying to implement any initiatives that didn't have some evidence base upon which to then pilots conduct a pilot of this nature so I think what's been shown as there's enough of an evidence base I based on the sensitivity and specificity found on the I'm initial trials of that use of the test to then do a pilot's about feasibility to use in Azra said a targeted way so I think I'm what we will be doing is piloting I'm in a small number of targeted settings taking the results are taken the feasibility of using those test to then inform how we might watch all out further so will be you know I'm being as evidence led as possible I am from what we get from the pilots of evolving is out so yeah I think you know we've got enough of an evidence base I think too to see if there is promising using these tests for asymptomatic testing in that targeted way as I've mentioned the dunes with a number of other boroughs in fact all in south-east London have opted in to to be part of these pilots bile so am as much as possible will be learning and I know in the event that there's a problem the feasibility there's a problem with the accuracy of course will take that learning and may choose to go direction on that basis I am in relation to making the current system work I do agree that the evidence of the evidence to date around people self-isolating on either having a positive test result will be identified as a contact isn't as high as would want it to be so again were putting in a lot of effort and energy into trying to make sure that we have as much in place
to assist people who are self-isolating and when they are testing positive or identified a CIL close contact and said that involves us I am starting our local air contact tracing as of last week as I have pointed out and were trying to find paid people to local support as much as possible but we do recognise that that is a very key part of reducing transmission of Covid 19 and put our energies and whatever evidence base and those around them things to do that and just to get about the champion young Champions I am so we have that some members of the public Health team have met with young May's advisers to try and and progress recruiting young champion and have had a very enthusiastic meeting with those young May's advisers and so will be progressing that in the coming weeks so I'm that is on the cardinal a raft pointed out we have put our survey to artistic Champions to find out things like demographic information the age groups ethnicities where they reside in the borough to make sure that we have good are spread as possible
captured adjusted quickly air catch lapel of do we have an idea when the pilot was stored as that did the they return on Bute please thank you yes sorry I'm I'm and how long it will start in last so I am with entered into the pilot we have not yet ordered are test kits were still doing very careful planning around who were targeting and the Test 2 am so should be doing that hopefully in the coming weeks how long it will last again that is going to be determined by us depending on the different air populations that we will be targeting with that so as soon as when clear on target populations we can put in order for tests as I said we could for in the AM the appropriate thing measures to evaluate and measure progress and then consider further role outline population groups so we don't yet have a no finite end dates and because we're also must ordering those planning and and then stated that shattered it also thanks for your comments about the Champions and Ralph any information that can be brought forward their relatively easily for the next meeting along
said about the areas and to consider the highlighted that would be appreciated Councillor sober do have any punched comebacker return fight after those answered three pre feature thank you for the further explanation or Catherine Ralph
and I have heard twice though that any positive result needs to be confirmed using a different test and that doesn't give me much confidence in the initial test if it needs on every single occasion confirming by different type of test that's a comment and I'll leave it I'll leave on the table but question though is I understand that we are we are sort of part of the south-east London Consortium that that that's made the decision having looked at the evidence to go ahead with the pilot what I'd like to know is how this decision was rife that and whether Lewisham was involved in the discussions that led to the decision or was it a decision made by other parts of his Consortium in whom Lewisham trusts and we decided to go along with them or were we sort of in at the beginning if you understand what I'm saying in terms of evaluating assessing whether this is the best for our Council as opposed to other councils in London thanks look if offered if officers and reply to that what I'd like to do with adult main this take two or questions from Kilmore colleagues and if we can do the there was a trail so you got Councillor Bernard Haitink equating they patiently and that becomes followed by air conflict Davey so happy to please
no thank you ever Mucha and I missed Councillor Pete Obama's and and as Chair of Housing Select Committee I want to ask him a question on Elysian to vaccine is good news for the Baggini's coming welcome but then there is people who
I also empty but saying so what are we doing to make sure that business people is not going to be left out and if there were going to have this kind of people in the community what effect Vagana ha in times of our ultimate goal of eliminating Covid ill thing or be circulating among the few and once other people becomes no
their vaccine becomes vacant unable to catch it and then it goes round so how are we going to be not tapping into them and telling them a busy the right way to do what are the mechanism and place to make sure that these people left behind in terms of information under BoxNation thank you thank you Councillor Davis peace
so my question was also about faxes just building on Kim's comments at the start and I was wondering what conversations as any we've had so far with governments and other Local authorities about the roll out of the vaccines what you kind of anticipate to be the biggest challenges whether it's about kind of identifying large enough sites in the Borough or the supply of the vaccine or or the uptake itself or a combination of these and in terms of the uptake completely agree with Peter there's a there's a huge it will attract people who are sceptics looking into kind of some of the evidence recently it seems that actually trying to convince but then there's less evidence about the impact of trying to convince these people and may be more about on the impact of trying to make it easier on the big tranche of people who don't kind of take up vaccines through things like forgetfulness or complacency or just that it's not very convenient for them and so as well as I can't ride a comes about the safety of the vaccine and reminding people to take up what more are we doing to make it easier for people to to do it at the right time I expect this might be less problematic than we something that the flu because everyone will be very much aware of it but just something to raise
factual before asked officers to respond to those pints a if if officers can just get me alone on this one is just a confirmation that Councillors will get the at data on the number of tested under that test positive and negative this the not will be fine there did confirmation thank you so yes if officers can reply to those points please in the older wish thank you attack one outcome that first ever so time honing intensive solder stir on your point around the pilot and we actively applied to become a pilot independent part of any consortia when a contorting doesn't exist it's just to but on the that the salaries unhelpful print it just so happens all six balls also applied and were accepted to become pilot so we acted remains an informed decision they stone the evidences as Catherine says that that we think is sufficient to go with this as a pilot and remembering it is a pilot so the loan and evaluation feedback the inside will of course they used to then help shape what Helena that the future might might not my service independently we applied to become part of it I would be on the question of vaccinations so many Scots led by the NHS of course this is Vol enter of activations and then the reserve them vaccinations committee in place to how to prioritise the order in which the machinations will begin again based on evidence and and Clinical they eat and so that Cabinet that it it is going to be nationally led by the NHS and that hasn't then stopped as having some very useful local conversations already with our NHS colleagues and Councillor Councillor Dowson you actually divides there there are driving force for us is to ensure that the vaccination does not further widen existing health inequalities that we know already exist so NHS are and looking to get as much granular data as they can about the existing of take up of things like the film jam to see where there are ticking locality of communities where there is already a reluctance to take jabs there is a recognition that the Council of we know our communities best we understand after me receive and that's why I asked at the beginning about your inciting views into the role of ward councillors as part of this is programme of of rolling out his vaccination because we need to understand what the barriers other that are already being articulate around thinking of the vaccine are and indeed what the motivations are the SA the replace for us people who want to hate the Speccie enough as well and so there's been a lot of communication work around this that is hugely important and a couple of weeks ago Rafael and that within interfaith forum and then churned the role of fatally does for example and in in this programme was going to be one that we are also looking at and locations for a vaccination Souths to be in the borough and and they were I also let me health colleagues from GP practices because as important with GPs will be in this role they recognise the there's much bigger
community at play here so that we are looking to see for example could be used some of our libraries perhaps the ground floor of Laurence House as a site to use the vaccination Centre there Cowell set up pop up vaccination sides in car parks in in parks in other local news to the setting out not colleagues nation homes work with us ensure that when knocking on doors and getting in to and my residents who live alone the and estates to get them engaged involved in this vaccination programme so it's early days still yet begin even usually down rapidly I'm encouraged now by the conversations that we had on this and I probably had my first discussion about
I am six weeks ago on vaccinations and to encourage by the openness within which and some regional health colleagues are engaging in this work with us and this they seats on the one to do together with local authority and yet it's also recognise that there are there are people who are yet to be convinced on the efficacy of the vaccination and how we can use our collective knowledge and and local knowledge to understand better and then seek trying to target where we can what those vaccinations are blank so I encourage but so far and I think they'll be more on this or future meetings as this evolving on or in own again a daily weekly basis Sanskrit do Catherine all Ralph wish to at any contributions
you want to check that you would prefer your council and cabinet Catherine add value to the gap
so I do comes Lepper not all penalty was the very last minute comments on the punch the reason vaccination any clarification am OK what I will do that I will do this item to close some sort of facility sorry Peter go ahead
I just wanted to know if you know obviously because we know this is an impending I'm challenge that we can have when the vaccine comes along so what are the we preparing our community you know we know in terms of them accepting this box in this does what I want to to know
it is there as an action plan or could something be provided for the next a business Panel what worked and what man out officer suggest to get this information or if I say what the question is and the reissue and how do we deal with this important area a Cayman hitting ominous as a set of listing like by ambitious calling so no one had with read more houses far as thing the timings and logistics are concerned and paper to we're talking more detail back maleficence PAN of that will need to be bought by NHS colleagues I hasten to add then there will will will look to the mat and a complex any promises on their behalf but hopefully the assurance I commissioned my around the conversations and the that you the engagements that we got in this give you some reassurance and around where we are currently with what we know today as fast passage is concerned
what what might be the case I do I believe it was in order to correct me but to understand that it's coming for the NHS at a national level but when it gets down to the borough level maybe you know those specifics don't to certain localities and to the community in Lewisham elsewhere so that might be not your Honda come back to your Council Millbank it might be a case of if there's any specific enamoured shoe and there'd be left some leeway in implementation when it comes from the NHS up not Tareq experience correct me if I'm wrong forgive me them have Butch maybe some ideas if this won't be as look at how we're going to be with local communities and our bit of it of in the in the national plan and then we don't have to with it
in the knowledge that they will have to working with as much as you can gather that under national plan from the NHS as account and must not in in our direct hands but does that give a flavour Peter and maybe a in if if came Ralph them just could be not that be saying difficult
it's about the local issues Burton Gabby's whistle beetle young trans Greenwich council matter the Committee and can we understand the constraints Councillor bank please
thank you Chairman just picking up on this point at Swansea said the by place come back to this business Panel I think person of Schiele's come back with all Members briefing because I think you're are cheeky sectors right that question here you know we are committed to councillors and I think we've got something to add to this so rather than come to us and to grow up somewhere else I push it's not an immediate referee but I think something like that to get all of us would be probably more helpful
as I
thank you Councillor Millbank and I'd completely forgotten that save comfortably bullishly there is an all Member briefing the in pencilled in I think for a health just like this one this week on housing and planning there is one before Christmas up early on and health and they're vaccinations and someone so yes and you and that that is already in in trainers your assets it's that role of community now ward councillors that and is really important Parfitt
ask him and OK we know thanks to thanks came Ralph and Catherine fair contributions and to colleagues for the questions will now go on to Item 4 as the agenda

4 Update on temporary measures to support safer walking and cycling in response to the COVID 19 pandemic

just checking 14th December I believe that the proposed debt as says Azouli Nimal hat corrective governance as under the title forgive me to get the fatal correct Abbott would thank you for that contribution known silliness on 4th December at all going a date of 4 no which is the update on temporary measures to support safer walking and cycling in response to the call that 19 pandemic we have a if we can get a shout out or Kevin Sheehan Executive director and Louise McBride had of highways and transport are we here
just give me a shout out or wait till you only be made for your coffee cup down we are here I think you have had a neatness jam IQ sole and your soul as well just to say we have got to welcomed the cabinet member Councillor Sophie McKeever a hill covers this area in her portfolio and obviously Sophie's more than welcome to contribute if she wishes to during the conversation so if I haven't you have to give a presentation no any point you always wishes to make a started a sanctum large I think districts Luis Cher and Luisel just give a brief other side the paper that he got funding it thank you Kevin or to Luis please thanks lorries
I just want to say I've got my colleague Alex crush here as well and just to support an ask any answer any further questions that Members may have as well thank you would welcome validates Surrey Louise feasible
said the report before you is a follow on from a paper that we brought from and back in May when we were starting to consider what measures were needs to be reduced to support safer walking and cycling during the pandemic so this provides an update on those four programmes and that we introduced as part of that paper say it was creating more pressures basin in public places where there's busy and high footfall also creating quieter residential streets full to support walking cycling creating more space outside schools and also and creating more space for walking and cycling along key corridors there are four main programmes of work and I'll see there are quite a number of projects within that his programmes that we've been working on delivering and to the paper provides an update on on those projects and also can it kicks off with the changes that we've introduced in the low traffic neighbourhood in the Lewisham and Leagreen area in response to some of the issues that were identified I think just echo in some of ear and kind of challenges that we've had as a result this programme so we have had it it has been challenging programme to deliver as a result of the short timescales that we've been required to deliver these measures in and it's also a fluctuating picture in terms of the travel and traffic picture that is going on as a result of cut of lockdown being eased and then tightened up again of see now we're backings the picture of of another lockdown and an into another easing for for Christmas said that obviously affects people's travel behaviour and traffic patterns and on also people's confidence in in using public transport in light of the pandemic as well as an impact so it is as with everybody and we are working in unusual and unprecedented times and we're trying to take that into counting cut terms of monitoring and assessing the impact of the measures introduced but I was forbid began leave it there and and take that the papers as red and and go straight into discussion if that's Acacia as failures if then well as equably object colleagues can indicate a in the chat function if the have femme which they can question so lesson questions or make any comments I've got a couple of things just to raise a a b initially neither sort of like more general questions for the gentler questions I keep coming
as many opportunities to answer answer the questions lightness as the questions that the public asking any situations and no sound like to say we are to understand the difficulties as we were saying earlier a across the board with their officers and staff and their the various rules are having to deal with no within this unprecedented
harms and we know we are all trying to get to the to the same outcome councillors officers residential just to make life safer and better air for residence here in the Borough
just a couple of it at a general things incentives
have we really looked like a kind of question that comes up from from residents it is what we're trying to get people of course reduce to traffic ketamine to public transport etc has been recognised it's it's sort of like difficult situation would on the pandemic when you try to get people on the public transport in the obvious that we all that recognise the problems with public but what not wanting to go on public transport but
is there any way that we can get more of make it easy for people to get banks etc just on the incentive said of things explaining more the benefits to residents but that just as as one everyone open Sun-Thurs in the past we've had the answer that we have like the Baker scheme etc but that's a very small thing compared to the changes or trying to get people could do with an initial front more proactive also on air quality obviously it's come up a number of trains had just to give officers an opportunity
the point that is raised a lot by residents that the measures are making equality in roadway
for more low-income residents increase higher in the discrepancy disparity that the measures are making it worse way the traffic already is worse in low income areas and Gysin sort of some response and to that
and finally just on consultations generally how we conduct consultations on all it's been mentioned and then reports the under that publications so that you put the by officers but clearly at this method this committee and elsewhere commonplace has been raised a number of times the failings of commonplace has been raised a number of chains and I just want to take this opportunity again to give off a says there the chance to explain beyond common place how they will ensure over the De Wint some examples perhaps of how the essential residents do and feel consulted on these issues when it comes to the process of going out to consultation on these issues so those are the three things they if that's OK what I'd like to do Louise as well take one of their colleague at and with we can take that that question please what berating comes the Millbank is first the kilt
the interest to my questions and Councillor militants pleased to get things like chat my point City picking up on the last point you just made about consultation but more specifically around monitoring there's lots of reference in the report and we do appreciate enormous challenges a time to carry through this initiative about consideration being given away monitoring closely but I can't get a feel of his hell where do in that you know how these assumptions that she kind of been what they'd be made on basically or get to his reference to commonplace but it feels like there's more going on the just commonplace but I'm unclear quite what that is thanking thanks John over to Luis please in cabinet Alex over wants to jump in at any point thank you
thanks very much on suggest in terms of the incentives I think absolutely recognise that you know in normal circumstances we would be delivering a balanced Transport Programme and that would include close some of the more cut of infrastructure that kind of encourages people to take up those femme more active and sustainable modes of transport unfortunately obviously the funding situation at the beginning of the pandemic was that that it funding that we normally receive was withdrawn and we were no longer in a position to deliver that Transport Programme for this financial year as we had anticipated and the money that was available coming through the London streets base programme and from Die of TS emergency active travel Fund was for measures such as like traffic neighbourhoods the pop-up cycle facilities creating more pedestrian space and school streets so Aussie we took the opportunity to make sure that we secure that investment into Lewisham and but recognised that it probably seen as as more at the stick that than the carrot
I'm pleased to say that as a result of the funding agreement has been reached by the F T and TEFL they are now in a position to give us an
some of the matter is that we've only just received notification of that but said the deal up between an affair sorry sorry to don't been
so I would want going to dictate repeat colossal sentences they don't apologise for that it's got attacked a kitsch the CK and so I recognising that we are we doing that as a result of that the funding that's available we're doing more stick that measures can you can you hear or I think I'm getting a prompt saying back I've got a bad quality network as well
please don't ignore me please carry on this from each Berkeley's carry-on I k and so the the LIP funding that we would normally receive of sea change that can year we just recently had notification that as a result of the funding deal between Tiafoe and DFT some lit funding will be available so that that kind of agreement was reached at the 11th hour just as the funding was due to expire so we haven't had the notification as early as we would like and which is currently going through the process of assessing which parts of the agreed programme that was in place for this financial year we can can deliver this financial year so hopefully some of those more incentive measures and counterpart will be move in fact towards that the balance transport programme that provides incentives recognise also that we have continued to provide that folk loan scheme for key workers during the pandemic so recognising that it is small but we have been doing what we can where we can in terms of the air quality we are monitoring the quality of the measures and both within Carnegie the immediate vicinity and the surrounding network as well so we are keeping a close eye on that Annual assessed as part of the monitoring and effectiveness of the measures clearly Our overall aim is to improve the air quality and and the quality of life for all of our residents across the board and part of that is encouraging this behaviour change which could be misleading to take you know it takes little why of those behaviours to change for that is a key consideration of of the success of the measures
absolutely acknowledged the comments on commonplace and of of received that message loud and clear from the various meetings that that we've had in the discussions that we've had about this and whilst I think the we have raised or used it as a tool for this kind of initial kind of engagement so that residents can feed back to us how they think that the the schemes are working and kind of alert us to any immediate or options or don't and his pate that that will be the only tool that we use as part of the public consultation of see we want to encourage as many people as possible to respond so that we are here here in the widest range of views so I would anticipate kind of applying the current the normal if you like as to how we would normally when a public consultation so using the citizen space making sure the messages out there through as many channels as possible including members own networks to to alert people to the so the consultation and can have yet doing a mail out to those to those areas affected as well so it will be a mixture I think of of digital and kind of other mechanism so we've got to being as inclusive as possible
On Councillor Milbank's question in terms of the monitoring and so we are we have got a series of traffic counts so it we're doing traffic counts and that those counts will enable us took on a monster the speed and the volume and it will also enable us to can of assess whether there has been an increase in and cycling uptake as well as I say will also be monitoring the air quality we've been working very closely with tier foul on a lot of their data that they've got so of see the impact on bus journey times will be a key consideration they have their GPS data and the bus performance reliability information that they will be able to share with us and we are also liaising with the emergency services to understand the impact on their response times and services as well so it's a broad package that we we monitoring and getting up that brought his picture possible in terms of the success of the measures
that just fractionally before calling the next question is would be coast was called in Councillor David I'll make been my technical hitch what was the response and by air quality being prepared decreasing in their low income neighbourhoods because of the measures
so we are monitoring the air quality across the board and that includes on kind of make road so both within where the measures up our implemented and the surrounding areas
and I think that you will see we'll we'll be doing a full it'll call these impact assessment as part of the final decision report as well so the initial information as I understand it is that they are Conti is it's not getting significantly worse than those things those areas were on the main roads and but will look into that further but is Steffi some as being closely monitored thanks Luis less Councillor bank wants to add anything I'd like to call on Councillor card and please thank you
what I think in those in that series of questions my main questions been answered said I'll be sure to I want to add one piece of information which was in the in trial of the low traffic neighbourhood in Lee Green one of the incentive for people who were thinking of getting an old by cows or switching to cycling was that
I don't know if this involve any funding from Lewisham council that week there was a partnership with the Lewisham cyclists and they were running Dr Bike sessions in the in that area and there were massive queues of local people with bikes needing a little bit occur and attention or or a bit of analysis of what went wrong and I think that that definitely helped
bring more people it back into cycling or into cycling in the area judging by the you know the size of the queues and the the number of people and I wanted to just pin point it I did want to flag a little bit more about the
that the reasons for the the changes that were made to the low traffic neighbourhood and saw the try and unpick how were monitoring in a bit more detail from now on and and that it was that I think the difficulties that arose were partly
but the difficulty that arose were mainly about displace traffic cut was trying to get through to the South Circular from the 8 21 or to the 8 20 from the 8 21 and those sorts of movements in the evening were causing problems and the or Prag one of the solutions to that may have been to to to make the low traffic neighbour bigger and cover the whole of Hither Green and that had quite a bit of support it also had a lot of people who didn't think that was a good idea and I think eventually a pragmatic decision was made given that TEFL were telling us that the buses were begetting some delays that the South Circular itself had had real problems now I don't think that and is just my personal view that those problems on the South Circular were caused by the low traffic neighbourhood I think it was it was a combination of increased traffic at the time as as Luis was saying there's been difficulties with
ups and downs in traffic as a result of people switching off public transport and doing what the launch of enabled another measures with with his either it is trying to encourage as many of those people as possible to walk and some of them cycle rather than the switch to two vehicles and I think that we just ended up with far more people in cause a particular times in particular places and I therefore want to know if how we are monitoring the South Circular invent more detail and we don't need load the detail now I just want reassurance that and we are liaising with Transport for London on
on the reasons why traffic is going up and down on these roads you know are we able to get are we able to get behind those those reasons really and also connected to fills question about air quality the there's been a some people were very concerned that traffic was being pushed out of Lewisham early on to main roads and and that's worthy air quality would get worse so it was good to hear that we are continuing to monitor early quality data on main roads as well as the side roads and and we probably don't need to answer about add anymore to that Luis but so if you want to his chance thank you thanks path but does don't Councillor Sophie Davies Louise and then if you can take answer those punch thank you both for and I think a few questions in advance but as the Chair had I'll I'll often against that the public can hear them and I'd like to say that and still very supportive of these measures and I think it's right that we are doing this at all and during this now and I really appreciate the amount of work that officers and Councillor Mick you have put into this because I know it's been a huge amount of work so my first question really was about data and what kind of more data we can share publicly in my conversations with residents in my ward both the residents who are kind of have concerns about a scheme that's been put in place and all those who have concerns that this tweet hasn't been identified as a as a priority which is a which is an issue in Forest Hill the the kind of one of the themes that run through it seems to be that they don't understand the prioritisation process and we've shared broad criteria with them already us as Councillors and through its to the letters to them but I was wondering whether we'd be able to kind of break this down further and I know when I was talking to officers about the school three in my ward for example this they shared its predicate that kind of detail all this causing or the criteria and like where one right I appreciate that's probably far too much work to share publicly but even if it's something that enables residents to see where they are compared to other streets in the borough compared to other areas how you know how likely is that they Street might be privatised or Howard a decision was made to prioritise one scores posters cool down the road for example I think that would be really helpful for I'd like to see a bit more what more we could do around that my other questions where around and so on them modal filters in particular whether you can tell us a bit more and sorry if I missed it what the kind of next steps are for the Phase 1 bed filters beyond what's in the report and more particularly I'm interested in kind of the next phase for identifying the the next phase of middle filters because I'm still referring residents too commonplace to suggest schemes but a lot of them are coming back and saying what we've been doing that for months now we'd like to know what's going to happen with all are suggestions and when and then finally just in terms of like the pedestrian spaces and public space in public places so the report mentions that will be extending these schemes as kind of code progresses and I just wondered whether you can provide a bit more information on the timelines and how we're communicating this term residence thank you have you go for Luis from colleagues
please do answer any old thing thank you
to Manchester to address all the points that have been raised so I think in terms of that the monitoring of the changes in in the LTA in that we've made so see the report outlines the changes that have been introduced in and from the week commencing the 9th of November so of today very recently gone in and am currently setting down but just give assurance that we will be monitoring those and see in September we undertook some traffic counts and put in place some kind of air quality monitors around the the LTA area and also neighbouring areas so those those air-quality monitors will continue to be we'll get the readings from them which would inform the assessment of cut of the change and more impact that has had and we will look to replicate the traffic counts so that we're doing a cut of a like-for-like comparison and will do those Council the same locations that we just need to give consideration to the appropriate time to do those counts to make sure that we're capturing as normal as possible travel patterns and behaviours so I think you know as we kind of get more details this week about the kind of the releasing of lockdown and the going into Earth which tier we might be in we can think about how how that the appropriate timing for that
and I think definitely in terms of we are absolutely working collaboratively with TEFL and in terms of and the impact on the South Circular and the bus performance we will be utilising their data where possible and they have been very kind of clarity fit they reproached working with us and also trying to work with us to make this the salty N a success and so I think that's been a positive and a beneficial working relationship in terms of
and the current robustness of the data that we have I think in terms of unpicking what can be attributed to the LTS what's can have that grounds end and as a result of other measures of sea that is very challenging and but they have got a number of automatic traffic counts across London so we can look at what's going on can of in Southlands in an in Lewisham in comparison to to other locations to cut of informed that assessment and and make reasonable judgments and conclusions bat how how that might be affecting travel patterns and and traffic in our area
and moving on to Councillor Davis's questions and so absent standards they can or desire to be transparent about the prioritisation process I think of see when we started this programme we were working at pace and and looking to utilise and the data that we had as much as possible so as it in the report it can a draws on traffic counts and where we had concerns that those those rat runs and
would return and that is also based on medicine feedback in terms of the prioritisation of of the Alltwen and that particular area was it was linked to that to the assessment that we did for the healthy neighbourhoods and we've we will be publishing that that assessment or summary of the assessment and how that's akin to account and the various factors and and the impact that had on the prioritisation think it's worth noting that just as we were going into 2 where we went into the first lockdown we were thinking about revisiting those criteria and kind of running it with the latest available information and also kind of introducing some additional criteria such as that the potential for areas to it for people to switch their mode to it to walking and cycling I'll see also now we need to take into account the past six to eight months that's happened and of the number of schemes have been developed and that has affected traffic patterns and they're not only our own schemes but also and tear fouls so I think M
absolutely recognise the need for transparency and we will be kind of publishing that that health in April had assessment and and considerable else we might be able to to do on the back of that I'll ask Alex to come in specifically on the school sheets in a moment and vote was finish off on on the other remaining questions air in terms in the next steps for Phase One we will current filters will continue to do the the after monitoring that of sales of said already we've we've got those changing kind of background traffic patterns that we need to take into Council of and I think it's fair to say that our resources have been focused on making the LTE N a success and making it work for more people and we are we had a level of work that perhaps wasn't anticipated as a result of of the vandalism that was experienced and also you know people was desire to to negotiate that the filters that have been in place so so we we have to cut to make sure we complete that monitoring to inform the next steps and intended the next phase for modal filters I think what A-list lessons learned his that is perhaps you know we wouldn't want to replicate doing individual occasions like we haven't we should be thinking about in the wider area context and so can we remain committed to do further Lt ends and we just considering about you know where that next stage should be and at what stage so silly to have the corporate capacity to be able to introduce those as well
I think that on the pedestrian space I think it at the time lines of see we need to review those in terms of yet they were put in place to create space for people to socially distance Annual
for the spaces sellers' asking that question about whether those measures are still
appropriate and and needed and so I think that that's timelines were confirmed to be confirmed if we are looking to make it through a temporary use of Debbie align that can be done relatively quickly and introduce it a further sorry I've lost my thread and is to be their apologies
though the the week before Alex comes in to do just want to have a common to consolidate
yes thank you Chair and thank you for your response so in times of so I appreciate the on the next phase of middle filters effectively what you're saying is we can are getting back to LTS slash how he neighbourhoods approach like areas rather than individual streets which I think makes sense in and and a number of areas so in terms of the schemes that people have been suggesting on commonplace how all that feed into that that so basically we be looking at them as well the just in terms of the areas rather than see you might take like what what were the sales that had been defined for us for healthy neighbourhoods previously and look at whether they had like a large number of comments from from residents for example with that is that how it's going to go and and kind of similarly when we go back to that I'd still be keen for some kind of like yet transparency around where different areas are even for the level of the kind of you know the 18 sells we had for helping its previously just O'Connor residents can understand like how how they air we're compared her to others thinking
thanks Sophie Ellis so deftly will be taken into account those those commonplace suggested suggested scheme and thinking about that in note that area context of see that they've been put on there and we've invited that comments so I would be right for us to take account of that and we will do that an absolute acknowledged the point about transparency around the prioritisation so from this point on I think you as I say we're we're kind of reverting to some extent of the businesses normal and I think you this has been an air and you know there have been many lessons learned as we've gone through this process and I think no one of the comments that has been raised is about the size of of the areas and whether they are still applicable and appropriate or whether we should be looking at at smaller areas so we have to go away and do that thinking and and once we've got that kind of agreed prioritisation week we can absolutely make that transparent
thank Louise Alex do you want to go in at this point
just to add in terms of the School streets prioritisation I think he will be seen spreadsheet of each developed which fleshes out some of those criteria that were mentioned in the report and I concur that is but during the development of that programme we may like the one of the most important criteria with support from the schools I'm pleased to say but all the schools that expressed an interest in the programme during the initial phase we were unable to deliver school streets are in those areas with an already been delivered airing in the motion of doing that we have hatter further 8 requests from eight new schools and say that will be considering that as part of the lip programme allocation that you just received on what we can to level those schools as well as any further requests to come forward
thanks Alex I have a flabby to move on to the next question is out cold on now Councillor Campbell for the by Councillor Sobel please
thank you Chair actually a lot of what I was going to ask as been asked particularly by Councillor Davis the ward councillor saw but no sorry jewelry carry on however
so it really was that there are bad people asking me the same questioned why are those areas why those streets been chosen wife my not and so do we have evidence to show people as to why we made those decisions rather than people thinking it's ad-hoc said that would be really useful I don't know how you would share that
the game one of my comments was gonna be around common place communicating with people through that for more that platform a lot has been said about that some may go on about that Luis but what I would I did want to talk a little bit about was the schemes that are in development so they are coming up or one of the things I found is a lot of objections weren't necessarily about the changes that have been implemented it rather that restive by given enough notice or work given any any notice at all that tomorrow this is going to happen so for those developments that are being planned can we ensure if we can I know in the document you said that you believe letting residents and businesses in Blackheath could people be given that tag of Lotus ovarian preparation for any change to happen in their areas but it was a big thing that people just said you know they woke up one morning him suddenly the streets are blocked so if we could have that that'd be really useful
there was something else was going to ask enough the coroner directly down 0 yes over the new schemes being developed them talking about blacking particularly that that area is used wider than the residents and business and so can we again communicate that in another platform so that more residents in the borough now that these things are going to be implemented because it that's their route to work but they don't live there then they're gonna get shot to one morning when they decide where they're going so their comments really thank sleaze
thanks Juliet and if we go to Councillor Sobel please
picture of first-world like to I'd like to Lord thing by the intention and ambition behind this this programme of reform and I've particularly pleased to hear some of the learnings been implemented that that's I'm a big fan of School Street School Street and I did the criterion of school support Mackie she got that buy-in from staff and and parents I I'm really pleased to see that there's no in your kind of framework I think that will make a big a big difference to make them successful also your your your point that Tim Roth look at modal filters a sort of one offs to seek see the most part of the network we have an individual modal filtering in my ward and Kitto Road I took understand how I think I think that's the right thing but it how this how this is evolving to look boring in as a sort of look at the network of measures and the cumulative effect and I would like to apologise
for the vandalism has taken place in a in our ward against the against the modal filter and and justice I don't know whether it's from people who live locally or people who drive through but whoever it it's completely completely unacceptable and I apologise that it took place took place them in in my ward but question is about returning to quality something that's a Bill much earn in the was taken up never to Burley these changes the impacts cut of land unequally an and I think it's very important to monitor how it lands and and you've talked about already looking at the effect on on main roads where some low-income that's a low income residents live in shops above our bus shops in main rice so I would like to see some kind of analysis done of who is cycling and who is new to cycling because the ambition is not just to increase the numbers of site a cyclist is it that to the broaden the demographic of those who cycle and I wondered if some work could be done to look to look at it in terms of protected characteristics the age profile the race profile gender disability but also of socio-economic class which is not officially protected characteristic but obviously Lewisham is is a is a feature that's a very important in in our thinking and and finally Luis regarding Kitto Road it would have been in place on the 7th of Keane who have been in place for six months
and I'm expecting a sort of internal informal second look at it around that time is at your expectation as well
thanks look and Louise ended your officers answered who want to join in thank you OK thanks very much said just taking
Councillor Campbell's comments about the notice period for residents' and end kind of communicating that out I think that is definitely one of our our learning if if you like in terms of the process and absolutely acknowledge that feedback that we've received from residents or do you think it was as a result of the very short time frames in which we were expected to deliver these measures and that was set out now in the government requirements for for the funding when it had to be spent by some fortunately are usual processes were either not able to do that or they were there was curtailed so an and recognise that you know we need to be communicating but why do you say that people are aware of their travelling through the area and as you say not not just living in that area so we will cut Yücel communication chat channels available to us what those changes come and communicate out as widely as possible if Members have got suggestions as to the best ways that to reach people more than willing to cut of here they suggested them and see if we can take that forward
in terms of the Equalities and the analysis of who is cycling and who is new to cycling an anaconda the impact on on protected characteristics I think it that that is a yeah interesting my off what we have to take it away give it some some more thought I think the public consultation will potentially give us an opportunity to ask some of those questions and understands that but obscene or traffic counts will tell us what cycling levels are they won't tell us who's doing it so unit usually those things are picked up by more attitudinal and survey so silly to think about that factly Insua are monitoring programme and in terms of Kito's specifically so I think of sea that has been one of the ones that unfortunately has experienced quite a high level of vandalism you're not alone in terms of it has happened in other parts of the Borough so there has been that wilfulness of people to get around these these modal filters so in terms of the next steps that we have been considering the appropriateness I am what other measures could be introduced by the Cameron Forstmann offers a reasonable objective that location but we certainly anticipate coming to talk to ward members about those locations in the Phase 1 locations and will be in touch to arrange meetings before Christmas so we can discuss that and take that forward
thanks to Louise advocated Juliet and Andrew Carter go to where Peter please consider nods
yes thank you very much time this might make Bishan was subtly asked by Councillor Sauber and this is do with them this because economic social to economic inequalities because some
I'm looking forward to going back to the impact that we have seen so far you'll see that the and Eliza is an exception scheme that we were not aware of people who rely on their cars for the De La bread are obviously a hard hit I support of the scheme to go to my grave myself as about the scheme I said now is is is a win-win solution for all but to August LA we need to
try to carry everybody with us are one lamp lamenting this schemes and then I would like to see
An economic impact the local community who I Colette is their vehicles as a mean of income and also people I can patient transport people you know I like cubs it on the bolivar that taxes deliver people and other people who always struggle and if they are hit by a file that could mean a meal on the table or not nothing for them so it is always good to have that in mind as we will win obviously we are doing it for the better good but the delivery man or be seen now
but you know we don't want to leave people in their in was off while we are trying to make life better elsewhere so I would like to see uneconomic impact to those people on the on his or the because audition going forward into other implementation of schemes
that's better
I call so I think perhaps he recognised that it would sit thick impact of the schemes you know not not everybody can walk and cycle or use public transport and there are those kind of essential car journeys as but we also know that a lot of journeys are made by car that are short journeys that could be walked and cycled so it's about Kanye getting those people to switch the journeys which will then come to free up the capacity and am and make those benefits for those people who have got to use their cars take point on on the economicus impact on on those people who need to use that not all these take that away and think about how we we capture that at an factor it in to any consultation and assessment think it's also you attended at the passion to transport issues that you raise we are in discussion of so it's it's striking that balance particularly in relation to the low traffic neighbourhood about kind of maintaining the integrity of the scheme and delivering the benefits of it was if you
the grant so many exemptions then that starts to water down and the benefit is is compromised but again if we could free up the classy of the main roads than those jelly shouldn't be much longer or more inconvenient so it is Kanye considering it in the round and of see this is a scheme and these are schemes that do divide opinion and it's about trying to can deliver the best overall balance of of measures and that's what will be seeking to do but I note your comment about the current because this assessment and will take that away to consider further thankfully it is an important aspect as we all recognise I've got to draw this aim to claw before do a question from Cozumel before call on Council packages one raise discovered Road are offices will know that the services they e-mail which afforded onto them making comments on the local to the amiable officers have been aware of it so I did say that it would be asking officers to comment to the points made in the in the meal with regard to how the how the for represented Scotland Road in the report officers can have you know talked about the ways at are you that June answers Candy up sorry and and waddling that it becomes a millpond final question of that's OK so all comment at John Jay
that is exactly my point thank you Chair or hockey effect thank you thought you'd forgotten about it thank Carla you've ever not yet out of forget that you take a moment as you know but anyway M Edwin Luis please so obscene that fire to the to the kind of pandemic and US formulating the Council's covert transport response there are a number initiatives that were already in development and scouting Road forms part of the Deptford partly for Neighbourhood schemes now see at the beginning of the pandemic the funding for that was part of the broader picture and that that funding got withdrawn and the so what we did the e-mail sets out that we did do and advertisement of an experimental traffic order back in in the summer of last year and that is correct but that order wasn't made so it didn't complete the full process so when the funding got pooled we put it into the consideration as to whether it would be appropriate to include as part of the covert response and we were felt that it it was because it of see serve that purpose as set out in the report so rather than do it through a temporary traffic notice we had an experimental traffic order front that had been through pop up by a process of review
once complete that process and utilise it so I accept that it's you possibly think by which the the closure is is put in place and so in terms of the the commonplace analysis and I think it was the Carnegie calm comments that the the comments were mixed was based on a very initial view and we will be undertaken a more detailed analysis and think before any kind of inclusion in any report about the comments I would like to take that away and do a more kind of in-depth analysis of those comments are and what they relate to but I think for the purposes of this report I wouldn't say that description is inaccurate but I will make sure that when we reporting in any future am on that scheme and any final decision report that we make sure that we capture accurately as part of the debt for park little neighbourhood scheme and and can take on board the comments that have been received in the EMA countries if you've got a class of water handy take a drink now get deserve it
cannot finish off now than this this item as this will make a few comments of them were all trying to get the same thing and we appreciate the work officers of put in I can imagine the weasel be blindfolded and all agree round every single road in the borough as well as some officers without any long term etc. put it so important that we engage with residents and as soon important that that voice of the residence is heard from other Councillors air on these schemes am in its in it's it's a two way it's a two way street for want of a Potter X expression but finally I just want to say you know we are in this position for not extent because of the way national government has handled the situation and given his time frames and criteria which Councillor egg with staff and councillors are trying to work through in the middle of a pandemic
and to try and bring something together and under those circumstances I think you know nothing perfect but with a we've really done the best we can but will only do better going forward all round I'm sure I'll not as any last comments see cabins for his camera Ono's been of me that's just so we can see say yes I Kevin site Charles just now might not point really lifted the government gave us these incredibly tight deadlines and Tom's to spend this money in a very short space of time and within weeks of us having complied with that to get the money for the Beragh they turned around and then complain that we we did and without proper consultation when we pointed out to them in the first place that week they weren't giving us the time to do it so I just want to thank the Committee really and members generally for the patience you shown with this work because it has been quite challenging to get it in place and time and to make the changes and also for the I mean for the members of the public who we would normally always as you know what to consult properly and bring people with us because that's the way we do things solution so it you know yeah we've learned not the lessons and and and believe me we'll be informing the government of those lessons that we've learned as well that's all the he errors and the voices of all other local council to Norbert government and so many things
thank you

5 Key Decision Plan

Louise Kevin Alex will draw that aim to close up brings us on to item 5 and colleagues for the questions there eight and five key decision plan you've got that in front of you there's various items coming up in the air December
mon cabinet and and other items at are the other areas we've got Kevill Flaherty Head of Committees here if there's any questions from colleagues on any of the items with regard to the forward plan I don't say that an unusual way there's nothing there no indication so if colleagues are happy to go on trade and 6 which is decisions made by Mayor and Cabinet

6 Decisions Made by Mayor on 11 November 2020 - open session

7 Scrutiny Update Report

which we would like to look at it we can't ask for any to be brought in and that's then brings us on to item 7 which the scrutiny update which is an opportunity as I've said for Chairs for make any points or raise any any questions or queries and we've also got shot today he had a scrutiny will happily give us a bit of an update on the the work programme Abbott firstly to any colleagues have any
anything that would like to take this opportunity
sucker punch areas we know that if there's anything they want to say
OK to look into Councillors' over who looks fake expectant but that could be for the reasons look but if not then and strategy what to say three words please at this point Guestling AQIM provider a quick up day on a current screening programmes and on engagement FO in the current fight of meetings all the select committees as you know looking at and the budget cuts proposals three Committees of met so far in threes still to meet
the Committee had been invited to make referrals to the public accounts Select Committee and that committee will forward those referrals to Mayor and Cabinet alongside any comments that that Committee wishes to make I'm Samarra cabinet was the for single referral from scrutiny on the budget cuts of course third proposals will need to be brought forward in January to address the remaining budget gap so there will be further cuts the Committees to scrutinise then
in terms of engagement I just wanted to mention the across every year scrutiny like to engage with the community in terms of its scrutiny work but obviously this year in very difficult in live upon Denayer can the restrictions in place in terms of impersonal contact however removed engagement is possible so I've asked the school manages to discuss with the Select Committee Chairs whether any remote engagement might contribute to the agreed work programmes and I do know that the children Young People's Select Committee for example be taking part in the online quiz with a young there and his advisers which should be a great way of them ensuring that the two way engagement between the Committee and advises that I think usually takes place I repeat through evening can continue and so I would encourage the Chairs to speak to the scrutiny managers about what's possible to do and remotely and that's all from me both the scrutiny chairs of anything that they wish to of actually very colleagues still poverty am questions of point suggest my question is why haven't been invited to the quiz Chair of CYP Councillor Sobel that's the only thing that comes to me first but if fair way colleagues ever been of anything serious Charlotte look those wish to comment from societies thank you well I will consider bringing rigours because we do obviously the councillors who want to win when we lined up against the Young Mayor and and and and and advisers
her thank you Charlotte for mentioning that the that that was an initiative sort up by the governance team for which I'm very grateful you've made it part during the pandemic to engage by using imagination creativity initiative and I thank you for it and we're all looking forward to that event I just wanted to let anyone know just three items that we will be looking at the Select Committee for children young people on Thursday are cost budget cuts will also be looking at waiting lists for Lewisham children when it comes to accesses children and adolescent mental health services from slam and we have the Chair of Governors present for Q and A and we will also be scrutinising the launch of a new programme that we are very excited about it's the it's called a embedding Race Equality illusion schools and raising the attainment of black Caribbean pupils this is an area that the Committee is focused on up for a number of years and re security was very much part of the review of exclusions that we conducted two years ago and we're very much looking forward to scrutinising this and I would like to thank all officers who under so much pressure at the moment for enabling us to look at these items on first day which I think would be for the benefit of of of staff of of members and of the public
thank you look can I call just very briefly at them
20 58 in the target is to finish at 9 o'clock and Leicester the any other agents and echo the thanks of all colleagues here too specifically and all staff all officers but particularly the overview and scrutiny staff and supporters there above and beyond as much as the can and we know we all appreciated if it's not set directly but everyone does appreciate that on that note of thanks as we don't have any other item 88 89 extruded present public any further decisions made by Mayor and Cabinet can I thank all councillors officers staff for attendance tonight and further an involvement I think it's been quite useful and hope anyone watching is got of insight and got some answers to somebody areas that would be looking at night obviously these are things very much a work in progress but we'll be continue into all view scrutinise him as is our role so on that basis of can I ask the webcast thank everyone for looking on the webcast and can I say that to be ended please