Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel - Tuesday, 26th January 2021 at 7:05pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Business Panel
Tuesday, 26th January 2021 at 7:05pm 

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Start of webcast
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1 Minutes
6 Scrutiny Update Report
2 Declarations of Interests
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3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response - Update Report
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4 Key Decision Plan
5 Decisions Made by Mayor on 13 January 2021 - open session
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6 Scrutiny Update Report
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  1. Webcast Finished

devolution councillors Overview and Scrutiny business Panel and Lucian councillors overspill and strictly education business Panel the first item of business to conduct at the seasoning is to fully operate the business panel and closet as per protocol and then we will formally open the Overview Scrutiny education business Panel conducted business for that and that agenda for this evening and then when that meeting is ended we will open reopen the fuller business panel and will address all the business on that agenda there so that clear to everyone I will formally close the obviously busy Panel and we will then open the Orpheus Udine education business Panel A for Nasa he from officers on any of the protocol that I need to do I will now open up the or viewed strong education business Panel welcome colleagues and officers and members of the public and press or who may be viewing tonight's meeting we don't often have a meeting of the Education business pilot so I'd like to particularly welcome those co-opted members of the business Panel he tonight other that Councillors the first item of business for tonight's meeting will be to take apologies before deal that if I can just go on to some little bit of protocol for tonight's meeting is to remain colleagues that you can have your cameras on or off but if you are speaking please abject camera on if that's OK if you wish to put a question as to any of the officers the items please put a question or a queue or question mark in the chat facility
to try and minimise any other further comments in the Trump facilities Bester's possible if you wish to write a question in the chap facility and I will ask it on your behalf that's fine of course and as ever if we can all be patient with each other with a moot buttons and on muting buttons and far cracking prattling audio and all the rest of it or ask is patience but below needed as well as far as I can see Nicholas Roth Unscear welcome you look list that tonight's meeting I don't know which are co-opted members are on tonight and refined over his recall long but as I said necklaces here and welcome if you're all he had Lilian 0 no and Clive to terminate meeting so without any further ado would like to start off the agenda and I would like to report the apologies of Councillors Campbell and Councillors power for tonight's meeting and apologies for lateness of Councillor Curran are there any other apologies for tonight's meeting or for lateness and he colleagues would like to add conveyor I don't believe they are so fully code that please become to the minutes of the last Education business panel and are there any parts all factual errors etc. The colleagues would like to raise with regards to the minutes in the normal manner
I don't see any indication so that's the case could I ask by activation therefore can hear this if colleagues are happy to accept the minutes as proposed breeds go anyone anyone against will take that is carried thank you very much we now come on to the next stage which is declarations of interest to any members of the Committee or 10 days which to convey any declarations of interest with regard to tonight victims
the interest paused briefly I don't see any any such so there's no none to report acute recorded
so the first substantive item tonight and is with regards to disease made by man cabinets facility the Stones minor works programme 20 21 approval of the cure and budget occasion at the man cabinet meeting this 18 was split into a part one and part two part 2 as we know is restricted with and become if we go inter-party we can have it explained why
can I just say welcome to levy will have just seen at challenges welcome fit next week Glenmuir so if colleagues wish to raise an issue that was in part 2 of the man covenants at meeting then we will have to go into a pot to session which actually use the press and public if the point raised remained in port 1
then we won't have to deal with that so I just one at one of made that clear if we raised something that
there could be construed as being in part 2 of ask the legal Officer those attending tonight to point this out and we can decide how we go forward if necessary to put apart to session at that point so apologies for the the clarification and this item was asked to be put forward by Councillor Sauber who is the Chair of converging in people's committees and could I remain colleagues as well that there when you first speak if you don't mind introducing a sounds to all the halls of residence and may be further afield for one or no doubt watching intently tonight so if you can just explain how you are
after this report has been councillors or whether Chelsea might be committee we have officers Lemieux and Vicky Johnston project manager and your Guillem senior Project manager to address the item and what I'd like to do whatever is to offer officers if they wish to see any points or raise anything in advance with do that in an open up to questions from members of the Committee a thatched all clear do have an indication of emphasised it's the Lemuel Old Joe wish to address the meeting first I can I was gonna alone Councillor Sobel who with whoever has A-pressen task the question in our respond faith get what that's like
so what we do that is Councillor Sobel explain a rationale for asking for this to be discussed to Nate in Devon when open offer questions and answers but I let lend you respond to console refers before until that I'm going to turn by CAMRA of so we can concentrate on nerves the Speaker thank you look thank you Chair I am the aforementioned Chair of the Turing young people Select Committee Councillor Luke Sauber hello you'll facts for for joining us so what I've given the really difficult unprecedented financial straits that we're in I I'm sort of routinely requesting that contract extensions
tenders come to business panel just that exited it's an and so it's pretty much the same three questions each time but I would put to you which is
can you reassure us that we're going to get the best value for money from from the contract for the people of Lewisham but whose whose money we are custodians off and I say this because we have had issues with with fusion that that you know that there are well known with other contractors at my second question is have we really investigated the in house option now that we have a corporate strategy that that sort of bends towards in her in housing where we can I am the third question is should this go out to tender and it looks like it will do local suppliers to Lewisham businesses have however you know either an even playing field so that Lewisham businesses can win the work or or will it be a case of cut of the previous contract has some kind of advantage and then they they tend to get sort of servery hide in a way that would exclude can a new entrance into the market because we aren't we want to be as inclusive as possible so I don't have any part to questions that relate to those caught of the numbers it so three general things I'd like to put put your way thank you look if you want to respond Langer than below me when you the costumes thinking and could even everyone at moneys Lemieux to catch concern I'm a project manager in the Council's capital programme delivery team and here today with a Jo Gilham whose my manager and so just on the first the first point of the first question raised about insourcing the services the festering go let to say is that we have actually started or and move to insourcing some of the services that were outsource for example my role was actually outsource before a joint and it was outsourced to project managers that cost 500 pounds a day so and we are improving in terms of what we're doing in terms of what we can bring in house the advantage that we have of outsourcing this technical service is that over the past few years the funding that we receive to fund the school minor works programme has been reducing over town and is not guaranteed in the future with the contract that we do have we have the option to break it after a year so if the funding is no longer available and we can we can end the contract also the value of the contract the services contracts that were going out to the tent of for I link to the value of work that we do so if one year we get less money than we anticipated the fees that we pay for that technical service will reduce accordingly
and
also
yeah so it also adds we do in source to the project management of of the school minor works programme and yet we in so so so the clients and service and in terms of what we can do to support local businesses public contract
air regulations 20 15 doesn't allow are still favourable Lewisham based businesses due to a principle of equal treatment but what we can do is a include questions on social value so how contractors will provide social value as part vague as part of their contracts in this of tender assessment and
those questions would look at what added value they could bring to the local community but also to the local economy and what we can do also as set a minimum score for those questions so in that way we can ensure that the current the contractor that wins the contract will provide a minimum level of added social and economic value to the local area and the type of targets that we can set with the contractors include a Saturn on minimum value of contracts to be secure by local businesses so in that way local businesses was variously benefit by a certain sort of contract value out of the our this project and also by San targets for the contractor to provide accredited training for local people
in terms of any added advantage that at a previous contractor's may have it won't be because they simply because they provided provided works for us in the past that they will have an advantage over other contractors I think we we've been talking to our colleagues in the local labour team and also procurement about what we can do to maximise the value we get out of this contract for local residents and local businesses and with there's going to be a focus on improving or shaping the social value pressures to get the most out of the contract
thanking you as Eddie follow up at all from any of the points made by level look are not not from myself thank you for that very and full answer and looking in the chat function if is any indication given year the police were still we're asking you will any questions I'm not seen any indications so if that's the case thank you everyone for coming along is if you like is the first time perhaps a bit the Education business panel
how the wasn't so bad and will result in a happy hour trying to get to the same result which is the best thing for them children and residents etc. thanks for your appearance tonight and their manager but we didn't say but was there so thanks for coming than Frenchman
and the one item of business we have therefore to needs all of you and sporting education business panel
can I thank and can also invite Nicholas and I think always here if they wish to follows art fall over fuel Scrutiny business Panel which are about to go into and thanks again for your attendance and so now I shall close overview and scrutiny education business panel
and await Mormont I thank Bill thank you Nicklaus take care have a good evening Ireland I will now reopen full overview is strictly business panel
according to change me agendas
and so we were start as per I won't go into ever before limit a protocol is part of education business Panel just remain colleagues that and the decisions of Man covenant tonight depending on what Easter aspects of the HMO is discussed remain after going report trim as it is we will only do the as necessary
we have apologies from Councillor Campbell and Councillor Paul and I'm going to check as I speak the we still have apologies for lateness from Councillor Karen I believe those are we shall recalled those apologies for lateness were the business Panel meeting for Councillor Curran as with education business plan of the next eight MPs minutes

1 Minutes

if there's any any colleagues from just looking at believe that the message is it question Councillor Millbank interested Clare Allan Lamb 1 one step ahead John one step ahead so our call it what can one woman so first AGM are people happy with the minutes of the last business Panel meeting and if so can we accept them as a true record and there's no one against that a great many repack Gill no declarations of interest with God Councillor Millbank

6 Scrutiny Update Report

2 Declarations of Interests

and what about Councillor do-nothing Chair

3 Scrutiny of the Council's Covid-19 Response - Update Report

as it stands at just in case it comes up in early for items 3 justice most of interest and a member of the lotion local collaborative thank you thank you John and Councillor Dune and this decision Fernand Cabinet in respect of place lady well I volunteer at the wild cat wilderness which is a product of Rushey Green time bank Helliconia licensee on the ground floor of Place Ladywell I have no financial interest they don't pay me so I just shy of the record at half the price Councillor Mulder thank you very much for for that that leads onto the first substantiating of tonight's meeting which is the scrutiny of the Council's Pulford 19 response update report a regular report we get as you know we have rough Wilkinson director book services and Catherine in Burma Director public Health here to addresses and if the wish and answer questions from members of the Committee so welcome both routes and Catherine
Ralph value or Catherine which chose them given the probable first
if I could perhaps give a short introduction to the report and then cash-in and I have to take questions please go ahead so things continue to move at pace so since this report was written the information is already out of date so provide a bit more information as be run through with them some up-to-date figures
but just to to to briefly comment on what's in the report since our last meeting we went into Tier 4 and then international lockdown as result of those infection rates increasing and the severe pressure on the NHS during this time please say we continued to deliver our critical services by after say they are under a lot of pressure from COVID absences and isolation requirements but we do continue to deliver them Rosso delivering all of our response services as well you'll be familiar with those the local test and trace that came into testing shielding providing personal protective equipment and so on what you may not be aware of is that we now have a 140 staff deployed through our covert action Team the were moving people round to support those services some of the main things recovering that local tested Traister Bisley got 52 staff are deployed on that our community testing we've just got up to 30 staff on that our enforcement were we've now got 26 staff on that so just some of the main ones they're they're coming from a mix of areas across the council mostly where the service isn't operating or having to operate a reduced service due to some of the restrictions that are in place before we had a bit of a discussion on testing so just to update you on where we're at with that the community testing this is where we test people without symptoms and as that yesterday we tested 4 thousand and 42 people 65 of those were positive they started off in the Civic Suite but we also know about a mobile one which we have been taken down to the depot at where side so the crews there can get tested and this week we opened up at The Green Man as well just to try and make the accessibility of it easy for people and we are now looking to open up one in the north of the borough hopefully next week we'll which didn't negotiations on that
we started off by appointment only and his own to critical workers or their households voluntary workers people out and about in the community that are allowed to be out and about under the current Regs where we're targeting those people what we are doing this week is we're trialling a walking rather than appointment only just at certain times of the day so that we can try and use all that capacity that we've got four or so trying to make it easy for people to use so it's easy and convenient
some of the other stuff we're working on that local test and trace operation continues she can say it's taking a lot staff to run that the number of positive case of we've been seeing in Leeds of last month means it's incredibly busy right now last week we were contacting 86 percent of cases that's the 12th highest in London so that we did pretty well there but the you can say it's taking a lot of staff in terms of enforcements
throughout the pandemic we've been out and out there and forcing those Coburn role so we've had people in parks every weekend we been visiting business and so on but you're saying from all the media attention that that this has been getting nationally and and in London and locally and this people are much more complacent under this lockdown and listen quite widespread non-compliance being seen so in response to this we reviewed our enforcement arrangements recently and we've made some changes so
we already do loads and loads of Communications costing him filing people I don't think anybody can say they're not aware of the rules now we're constantly repeating that message also putting things so so the last sent a letter to supermarkets very recently that's little bar environmental health officers who veins all of the big seat markets we've made it easier to report breaches so we've got something on the website now and an e-mail address to make it easy to report things
and we do improve the joint working we've got between different teams in the council but also with the police and we've redirected sudden other enforcement staff into this work and this daily tasking of those staff so that we focus on where the problem areas are we getting that intelligence that people out following those rules so last week just to give you an idea of the numbers that's happening in this area last week and they did 15 100 checks on businesses and 2 thousand 67th formal visits
so this approach is going to continue and as and when we come out of lockdown whenever that may be where same elites after increase this further
because the rule changes will make it even more complex more business will be open which will make it complex as well so so not happening what enforcement at the moment
some schools are just a couple of points to mention on schools we've got about 10th sent of pupils at school those so these will be children are key workers all vulnerable sorry about 10 per cent this is higher than it was in the first lockdown and the schools and colleges working with us and the Department of Education just needs and ensure that the most vulnerable and disadvantaged learners of the but access to digital services and please stay low issue learning is currently undertaking an assessment of that to make sure 0 we are picking up everybody there
in terms of infection rates the report gives some data on that but to say that the things are changing all the time and the latest 7 day infection rate per 100 thousand people is 538 for the 60 plus age group it slightly higher at 644 so the lockdown when at the moment is working we are starting to see those figures reduce now but their peak at the end of December they were a thousand 83 per 100 thousand so they are coming down but you see from the news though that our hospitals are still full is a time lag there so it'll be a couple of weeks yet before we start to see hopefully those pressures easing in hospitals and also sadly we're seeing an increase in the deaths at the moment so the ONS figures that official figures and we've quoted those in the report
those figures were up to the 1st of January the latest figures out at the moment and our up to the 8th of January and that shows that in that week we had another 30 deaths and I'm afraid we're going to see that increased continue for the next few weeks at least so that's really the current position we're in at the moment
and we're focusing all our efforts on this covert response Anna course other critical work like savings so that as I said last time are visitors usual is really affected so please bear with us some of those response times might not be what we'd want and some things we are having just to pause to so that we can focus on these really key areas but I can assure you everyone is working flat out
and doing their best so we ask you to note that reports and as a say Catherine I am happy to take questions
thanks Ralph and what you can you say when you say so bit savings as I refer of Timothy budget or to have debate because of the rejection and grant that the government and the lack of support for local government that what you meant when he said say it is it is exactly that yes thank you very much before I open it up to members what I want to do as always at the beginning of this Aytoun really as to start off are going to do this and retain to thank staff and volunteers for all the work that doing and to show the appreciation that we do have for the way critical services delivery ever by those staff and and and Lewisham residents is being carried out so just one and then start to her for the thank you and so I have at other non shall just to check Catherine there wasn't anything you want to add George's happy for it to go in to kill any now yeah Sciences acquiescence that other cool day thank you very much OK so we have councillors' card men buying and Burnage if officers are happy to take them through the time thought VAW let's see what Councillor card says except rebury questions of particular support first that will see a barrier pack you thank you Chair I'm happy to sort of to one or two and come back later so well firstly I echo the words you've said The Chair about the staff and volunteers and thank Ralph codes report and for the excellent verbal report because you answer the fear my questions in him that RAF
can I just pick up on one statistic gave which was I was going to ask how the test and face work was going and you said 86 percent of for people of being contacted o do we know how how cooperative as or any measurements of how Co operative people are being with the you know do they sound positive that they're going to isolate etc and does are enforcement stretched to that yet that was my first question second one was backs of the lateral flow testing which we've we've talked about a lot better very specific question
it seems that the way we were using it
I am then as far as I'm concerned for Moores have read which is
it's best when it's used to test people who were going to do things anyway so people were going to be going to work going to be mixing with other people if they can be tested we may pick up some people were asymptomatic and may save of more spread of the virus
but at the centre is there any guidance for people who come to be tested about in a the purpose of that I protest you know to try and stop people using its or perhaps think I can go and visit so and so if I've been tested negative I just wondered if we're giving out any guidance any leaflets or anything you may say it's not needed but I'd be interested know why of if it's not and I am there just asthma third one to go for it and they will ask any transfer like these it's okay the third one is looking ahead and it's probably very early for this question but we've got a lot of staff doing other duties than they normally do what you might call seconded and I just wondered is the some sort of plan for how we're going to bring these people back into the to their regular jobs is that beginning to be worked on and I know that in a time of a lot of change people have been succumbed away from jobs sometimes when they come back their vulnerable to leaving for whatever reason so I just I just thought I'd flag that now and it might be a bit early for that there are be interested know thank you Chair thank Pat before your answer Rutger does give a shout out to officers that Councillor Handley is trying to get into the meeting so very officers available to pick up and give any assistance please don't so Ralph his thank you and Catherine thing so
yeah thank you for those questions in in terms of the test and trace
in the phone calls that 86 percent people are being co-opted in the discussions what we don't know is then whether they go one and do what we asked to do and that is the big question and there is a fair a national fear that despite being asked to isolate as result of that
contact they had with the positive case or or the fact that their real themselves and some people might not be doing it are we enforcing that at the moment no we're not the very very difficult to enforce the numbers we are dealing with I think potentially when the numbers reduced that might be something that I think nationally there's a bit of a switch to do but currently are not aware of any enforcement going on that what the over the summer there was a bit of enforcement by the police where people were coming back into the country and having to self-isolate they'd come from a certain country and they did go round to a few properties just to check those people were there but the numbers were really really low and it wasn't a 100 percent coverage but but that is that is a concern I think has things to go on and hopefully the numbers reduced we might see some more targeted work there
terms of the community testing yes a way we are running that testing in the ways been recommended to us by government and and following the public health guidance as well so we're targeting groups now the target groups of the walls that are out and circulating we are not targeting people who would otherwise should be isolating at home because they don't need to leave to go to work or shopping and stuff like that
and we do try and ensure that those are the groups but what we don't do is back them when they arrive at the centre the idea is when they arrive at the centre we processed in very quickly because the shorter time there there the less risk for everybody in both so very good point you raise about the guidance because that's actually something we're working on right at this very minute what we have established is the at the weekends
particularly Friday we saw a spike in the numbers and there is we haven't got any evidence that the spike is due to people preparing for the weekend and potentially going out and flouting the rules but it's a concern so we are going to up there is information provided to them the against I get a text it with their result of what they can and can't do but we are now working on at least that they will take away and it will tell exactly what being negative names and it doesn't mean they can then go and do whatever they has left a bow all of that covert guidance and what they have to do if their positive so so you were you were on the button there with but the leaflet takeaway as a learning terms of seconded staff yeah so
one of the things we are working on now in the background is it's becoming clear that some of these services are going to run for months and months and not necessarily at the level we're saying but contact tracing I think we're going to see that for some time to come
and that local support of the contact tracing to try and make sure we get as many people as possible so we are starting to think about a how do we transition to people back to their own services but what we do in terms of staffing some of those longer term roles to we start to employees on fixed term contracts to be used agency staff or do we do a mix of the our own staff are Moser eruptions somewhere looking at that now I don't have the answers to what the outcome will be but it is something we are looking at and were also looking at if we can do it can we rotate some of these staff through some of the different things we are doing because some of the work is quite intensive that contact tracing we're getting some feedback there that some staff are finding that difficult so if we can give them a break by moving them on to something else that perhaps isn't so one to one heavy we'll be doing that
thanks very much thanks chair thanks route thanks Pat and unless Catholic or anything to had I'll go trail Councillor Millbank and followed by Councillor Matt they're not place think very much shekels Millbank Khan on the this committee with virtual been a Labour Group representative amply thank you
the of the wealthy over another good detailed reports place the see overstate 5 point 2 0 about where regularly multi testing visits in the care homes and the staff weekly I apologise if you've told us this in the past but can you just tell us where we are in terms of pick that work for care agencies what's opposition for people that working for care agencies that going into individual happy now households and whatever in terms of testing and the second which I don't expect to answer tonight Ralph but I've just want to bring forward as Michu's that I've had raised with made it may well have got resolved now of see lots of work I still go down to Lewisham market for obvious reasons in terms of fruit veg and other supplies I appreciate up to the community toilet scheme calf function because all the cafes in the restaurants the puppet billed as a shot but I've had a few queries about the toilets at Lewisham you know the the notion Council toys whether they are open or not
but don't expect not substantial enough thank you very much
Chacombe items as well if Councillor Bernard wants to give his question as well in that will address them or that'll kid thank you thank you Chair errm enemies Hunslet urbanites alone on the chair of a housing selects committed my question is letting to vaccination and I know I'm not sure whether you
you you're going to be a covering this one but if not then I understand are there has been a chance however the data of me of mixed missed BoxNation appointments and also the Muslim nation that as I understand it is an two parts but one part two and I'll once in in your visit the first one and local be by another the second time can as it has to be on the same brand of the
the the vaccination it'll be hard to fires are we have modelled 1 by land other ones at the that people get the same but then if you go further forget the modeller and then when you got next time you get to another different to tape is that as I made clear
it is understood that my question and a firm you have data of people in Lewisham who problems so the might have passed away while they have already been vaccinated
it was only three questions for thank you thanks Peter and and Ralph Catherine down over 2 sounds IQ and yes I think
the and I don't know the answer on the loose market toilets for all find out that intended the Coun staff testing the agency staff I think the aim to staff are treated like they are care home staff and therefore they get access to that but perhaps cutting could just confirm that for me and I think cash-ins probably best placed to answer that the vaccination questions if that's OK Catherine
yes definitely so just to come back on the domiciliary care question and Ralph was right and saying that they get weekly and testing allocation with PC on tests so they are treated I'm in the same way as Karim like like us in that respect in terms of vaccination and data were still awaiting an hour uptake data so I'm cancer balance we don't yet have the proportion of those invited to have had missed appointments yet but hopefully when that starts coming through we will try to make sure that we can report that in now a reasonable way as part of these reports
and the second query about the different vaccinations between the first and the second does I will have to take that back to NHS colleagues just to get some clarification on that why can say about the evidence that we know so far about the different vaccinations that had been approved by MH array is that they have very similar efficacy and and safety profiles between the Pfizer I am an Oxford matters Ennico I'm those being offered at the moment that I'm I can I can take that back around the different vaccinations between the first and second days and again bring that back of I am part this report I think they may be a third query sorry Councillor finance I hope that that was once all of your queries identify those a third one you let go ahead of his revelation
below the works of and one was low although the hub in a debate about the people passed on after there to get the vaccination not yet again so that again now we don't so what we have at the moment are total numbers of vaccinations and delivered so I can report that as of the 21st of January across south-east London 97 thousand back seem to have been delivered across I the sub-region but yes I don't yet have you know granular data around uptake missed appointments or I am unfortunate deaths that may have occurred after vaccination so again those are statistics that we can try to incorporate in our reports to this Panel going forward
Catherine thank Peter thanks Joan we've got before call on Councillor Sauber I'm just looking at a message from Councillor pod Izzat did you will come in on this Councillor Carter given the question as regards the faxing roll out and got that rates the yeah sort Sirhowy please be so I'm I'm and Patrick cottage the chair of public accounts Committee and that's why I'm sitting on overview and scrutiny business
I'm I'm sorry I forgot to mention that on vaccine rollouts the question for Catherine I've been shown tax that elderly people who live in my ward of received from local doctors surgery
Ham invite him to come for a vaccine and they've got very confused by them and they've been trying to ring the surgery to to find out what's going on and I'm wondering if it's a hope it's not a standard tax and it might just be the one surgery and it basically says would you like one of us to give you a vaccine if so click on this link and they click on the link and if because it doesn't take them to their local surgery takes them to somewhere else
but the message hasn't told them it won't be done at the local surgery and factored to lead them to believe it will so there then think it's an error and they don't want to go ahead and book that St John's medical Centre so I can obviously Pat raise that with the CCG myself but I thought it might be better coming through you
and yeah so I just like to perhaps look into that place because it certainly delayed this elderly coupled by about a week getting a vaccine
and it may be an issue for people thank you betcha out onto pad right plan yeah yeah nodding your head go to take this up the anarchy as per
stated by Councillor Carter there unless you got to submit to add to it I'll add Calestous over 2 were asked his question now that's alright look this
thank you Chair pillow I'm Catherine Ralph it's lovely to see you and thank you very much for all your your hard work
the predictably my question is going to be about lateral flow test so hope everyone's done their homework and were up up up today I've done mine are that I know you more busy than I am so the latest voice raised in in a sort of querying the efficacy and the efficiency of this project that we're joined this government initiated
inclusive Dr Mike Gill a former Director of public Health for south-east England and
so the three things that are concerned about how I would love to hear response 1 is the the evidence from the Liverpool pilot hasn't changed I Henderson Cissokho looking at is it 60 percent of infected affected symptomless people went undetected set my concerns about the false negatives and people walking out of the Civic Suite of the Green Man thinking I don't have called it and and and then being less conscientious
my my second question is about return on investment and I hear them sounding more like the Chair of public accounts and see why people and do my best so about time now you are wrong to SOLL Patrick so seriously though it's about 8 3 we know I our services of around distress we have 30 sort brave volunteers now redeployed to do these tests of 3 buildings occupied now it just a lot at stats you provide us of 4 thousand tests to detect
65 positives is that the most efficient use of our resources so I compare that to the PC are lactose the stats you gave us so they are detecting 3 thousand positives per week and so I'm wondering 60 3 thousand is this the best use of a finite are finite resources and my final point because
I want to be constructive and and is the I understand the government is now going to put pressure on councils to cut innominate sort of vaccine ambassadors and I was wondering perhaps it would be better for our communities and better to reach the outcomes that we all share every one of us every volunteer re senior officer every Council we all share
might they be better employed in reaching out to those communities that are perhaps vaccine reluctant or vaccine sceptical as an alternative way of using these the staff who are who have been redeployed
that that's it Chair thank you thanks look I'm going to have the last question on this item was a see no one else in the less proud savoured until Catherine addresses looks and Pintscher thank you Catherine and route
Chaphekar it and think I'll ask County district
so I mean I just answer the question in the rounds radio pouts and these resources I'm Councillor saw for this lateral go device testing and I would say that I think I said it previously I'm that the main rationale for using the natural flow device test as he would have heard from government is to make sure that we can detect those asymptomatic cases that would not otherwise be detected so as you'll know we have one third of our a COVID-19 cases that are present without symptom so it using am these tests to make sure we can protect those cases ask them to self-isolate trigger further self-isolation for their close contacts and contain infection and so am that's the main
rationale behind it in relation to the false negatives in those being forced to be assured as far pointed out we are providing I am messaging and I think that's the saw belief in your hand in addition to wider messaging that a leg a negative test is only negative for that point in time and so we would make sure that you I'm comply with all the other things of our enhance FaceSpace you don't use as a licence to go I am of visiting people not complying with those regulations so I am we are making sure that we're providing that messaging to reduce any further spread from any false negative that may arise from the use of those test so I think we're trying to do is to
to get the maximum gain from identification of asymptomatic cases balanced with your right there is that you know small risk that people will use it as though 0 I'm negative now I can go off and do things we hope that the message that we provide counteracts any of that are minimised as that of get the maximum gain from identifying those asan smatter cases making sure they isolated and using as another tool in our armoury and to reduce cases of COVID-19 so I hope that response to your question in terms of the resource used
the COVID-19 vaccine ambassadors you mentioned I am so am previous I think reported I'm too at this Panel that we have over 100 50 Committee Champions at the moment so there members of our communities I think people on part of this Panel are eventually Champions as well and he would provide weekly e-mails to we been fortnightly webinars and we've been doing quite a lot without a break with our Champions on COVID-19 vaccination so I think the Champions have been recruited to date we intend to recruit more we are trying to make sure they're empowered to have conversations with those that they're in touch with around COVID-19 vaccination were trying to make sure that we can targets I am messaging to Champions who will be in touch with those who are essentially vaccine hesitant as well and said that that is at the moment I am one of our main mechanisms for getting mission out there but there are many other things were doing how to visit webinars repelled one on the 14th of from January were holding another one this week Thursday we talked to our social care staff about an vaccination as well and are still developing and plans to make sure we can reach those of acting headstones while so and that's not something missed immediately putting in appropriate and I would say good amount of resource am towards that as well so I wouldn't see as a trade off that we can't do both lateral device testing with our Council we deployed staff and also use existing staff to make sure that way in Paraná Champions to spread those messages around cope lighting vexations them
thanks Catherine look a lot of the question for next month I am on the referring the issue to say one thing please please please vote I'm sure we'll are I just want to say I think Lewisham is probably got the best version of the mass item to Matic testing that we could come up with an you are responsible for that I thank you for it by believe that the government when investing in these devices a lot of money I think they're not quite doing what the government hoped they would do central government I'll just leave it there could do I but I do want to make clear
On proud of all of the work you're doing including one in all in all the testing thank you
acts looked thanks Catherine has said we have been joined by Councillor Fullerton I their Liam Byrne rather once used as a quick question from my final comments thanks labour virtually much good evening could even Caspit in the end I like to second world lifter safe
my question is about vaccines but it's actually about but you know quite a few people are volunteering at various surgeries and locations where access to people and the ones that are very successful and efficient and getting through a lot of people so much so the though you don't have any more vaccine and have to wait for a week or so to before they can vaccinate more people
now I've been told that this is in part political a small p very small pig not a party political because it they don't want all areas to be vaccinated and in some places are so there waiting the others to catch up when I say that I'm I'm be perverted Department of Health so is there any truth croons is resented truthiness and does anything we can do to speed up the supply because and I do know about places in Bromley having relatives and friends there and and very surgeries are they still people over 80 and plus in haven't received their vaccines yet so Amir could you address that and see if a solution thank you
actually a Catherine please yeah I'm not going to thank you for raising that and I think that's another query that I will have to take back to CCG colleagues because until now again that saying over the whole vaccination roll outs is being am led by NHS colleagues I am at Southampton CCG I'm not aware of anything I am happening as you've described but again we can flag that with colleagues and hopefully get back to you with a response on that I am as part of our Fitch reports consumption by thanks Catherine thankfully I draw this lighter Crichlow I'll just make a few comments last any questions please parking enforcement issue which again is something that now raised a few times mostly I want to say that I welcome the still fats end the report on the things you highlighted there to date Ralph arm and I know it's a tricky one I mean that the website etc. about hope that wealth would it be practice
been making sure residents know that these things exist so the can report in a safe that we in the North will be dealt with in a in a reasoned manner which the made up to do by ringing the police etc. ever necessarily aerial array of of one of them may be so I hope they will we will pursue things in that manner I still have a concern about coordination of police services and just really one partner Coppinger Wedneday meal mai you'll get to at some point but what I have engaged with them a manager of one national supermarket chain recently I was told that if there is an incident and they get an official detain again abuse of people are not following guidelines and the get an abuse of customers because the not challenging the people aren't following died language so the right in the middle of it but if things did get difficult in any local police the Khan without going to the regional Manager angles EU procedures except out raise this with the store directly as conceived by the e-mail so I don't feel that in some ways
organisations like supermarkets have had the profits that can do this should be putting these with profits in to look at staff levels whether security staff of the general staff and when any 0 situation and then so they are not always put in difficult positions without the support when needed but I'm not ask are not good enough and Xavier that and win I'll keep an eye on it yolky reporting back welcome I welcome all the things that's been done so far and are not basis I'd like to thank you and Catherine and foyer the differences in some detail questions and again read read on thanks to you and all your staff and thanks for coming along tonight and will clause 9 8 m now thank you sir

4 Key Decision Plan

5 Decisions Made by Mayor on 13 January 2021 - open session

given that will bring us onto the next 8 in which the key decision plan which as we know this is as it sounds I said that a set of the tin if the plan that shows all the key decisions that are coming up to Mount Cabinet over the coming months in your report you and say that the one her coming of soonest of Hyde some summaries on can fly the as Committee Clerk as here Manager of that section 2 as any questions on any the procedural points you may wish to raise if you have any but also you know this gives us a heads-up for future meetings on some decisions on areas are going to be addressed Shaw I'm looking in the chart function to save as any one it was one of raise any questions on this item I don't think the are so well them Constand them Kevin and move onto the next item which is decisions made by Mayor and Cabinet on the 13th January this item is the future of police lady well just remain colleagues briefly could fall and report to meeting a image that as we go on with it we have officers formal and convective regeneration Peter Alary Group Finance Manager and Councillor Paul Bell Cabinet Member for Housing and Planning there's been requested by my South and comes from Dune so let comes from and do when we get to that stage kick-off with these questions but in the first instance to officers will Councillor Vale of wish to introduce being any sort of introduction first if contribute some indication he's
Paul would you like to make a brief introduction give you could pull
LABGI judgment
is this promo approval for more more Modsarie begetter apology apologies members you happy you mean to just give a very quick overview Chair of course absolutely over over the pool as its as until thank you thank thank thank so much good evening members I'll just give top lines it's a place and the label sites an extensive history and many Members have got ei experience of this I won't go into too much detail I try to keep out the Potsie papers much as possible our mention one or two headline figures along the way we we sought over the summer to bring forward quite an extensive evaluation of of all the issues over the last few years and bring everything up to date some Members have got a really informed view of all the options and all the cost of the benefits and what we could do in that space as a sign of the summer we try to bring together the future of the label leisure center site and and also the place that that that the place scheme and until about the future of that modular accommodation which takes us to the point of a really detailed and extensive option appraisal three main options that we looked at the potential for relocating place as was originally envisaged at the potential demolition of place both those two options would enable then the full development of the Place Ladywell site and both of those pretty big schemes talking towards 90 to 100 million pounds of capital investment on those on those sites are we looked at a third option which was to retain the current place configuration in its current location for some time to come and to enable development to the rear of the site and took a phased approach not rule out long term full development of the Ladywell leisure center site but see that's a phased option and in the paper members we try to really bottom out our four main features of the appraisal obviously a full cost and financial appraisal in particular there we were looking at the impact on the overall HRA borrowing envelopes I think it's a really important point to make the in in looking at a a a capital cost there we have to consider the the the other options that would come in the future
4 that the HRA borrowing limit and threshold so you see that those fund quite extensive part of the analysis in the part 2 paper the the level of affordable housing that could be provided in absolute terms as been a key consideration throughout this appraisal also looking environmental considerations in the sun carbon in in place and as part of the options and also looking any other residual risks on areas we couldn't fully bottom out but we we thought we should pay attention to in the court to the way within the papers of all I comes together I think in a robust option appraisal are I was asked to bring forward day clear single recommendation to Mayor and Cabinet based on that option appraisal which takes us to the recommendations on page 20 arm that was to ask them and see to agree a phased development as I'd outlined to retain place in its current site of the time being developed to the rear as part of phase development arm a base line tenure mix that we outline in favour of at least 50 percent affordable housing in that scheme when it comes forward and we hope to better that are in in-work in coming months are and to include within the overall site the Lambeth screen nursery members that that's where we got to on the call as well as James ring with unconscious that are James has done extensive work on issues also had recent discussions with some members along the way so are stop there I'm sure we can say questions thanks thanks for oak the prerogative of feedback for survey that ever service without vary me that I don't know
that's fed up thank you OK thanks for the oppression for and indeed as you say we got Jameson regard the cabinet member for Pell what I'd like to do in the first instance is Councillor we're doing give you the initial start us off with your questions comments on this 18 please yes sir thank you to armed with your leave I'll also speaking part two of this meeting about some some other matters after the party matters for I think for some place ready well was a great innovation is a great innovation and I see across London planning applications going in an for homes being built off site I think possibly we we undersell it by about modular of site construction these are precision manufactured homes and affected to win 1 millimeter of tolerance and because they are manufactured off site they they are
swift and clean to build when I brought down on back of lorries would either craned and there's no as minimal disruption there's no mud there's no excavation and it's quick so so I think possibly we we undersell the great benefits of his et some relatively new this type of manufacturing the UK but Clayton homes in United States has been doing this 45 years and our mum most recent figures I haven't checked recently back in bad 2 thousand and 10 day built one and a half million homes in this way so fees a tried and tested methods were catching up and I'm very pleased that Mr. jet ending who used to appaluse on his now at cause consultancy whose chief exec as on the MAC algae round table on modern construction methods I do have a question in-car one which is about its pace 29 of the Mayor and Cabinet report as about the commercial tenants commercial licensees and as I said in my declaration of interest I volunteer Rushey Green time back who is one of the current licensees although their head office is in Rushey Green and other is a great demand for commercial and space on the east side of Lucian High Street at the moment do you have for commercial tenants lined up
that's the that's my question a thanks thanks Jun and every if officers air would answered that question first case and could play an at once a James Cherney's is be looking at that recently enhance as had recent discussions with some of the party's NED with members
Canadian everybody thank you for and I thank you for the question Councillor M Alderman over James ring with it I work in a strategic development team and as full as stated I have had involvement in and the commercial units and what's going to happen moving forward so as full alluded to the o all the options on the table when we were looking at this over the last six months I'm so we were preparing for any of those eventualities to come out whilst we were going through that process
now that a decision is is is being put forward or recommendation is being put forward for the retain option at least in the short term whilst Peter phased development and the situation with the current occupiers is going to be recognised so all the units are currently let three of them through a company called meanwhile and one directly with the Council those the you'll know Council Maldon that the Rushey Green Timebank stroke version local use one of those units as you as you set out and they are going to be secure their until the end of the current lease which is in October and we would very much like to to support local businesses and local charities moving forward its own answer to your question we are working through what the long-term options are going to be for De commercial units they're going to be secure until at least October whilst we what we do that work it would end we have indications that the units are popular and would be able to the rented because all of the units are currently under leases I balances a question
James Kelly admitted that OK thank you thank you Councillor Molly do I say Councillor part and Councillor Johnson Franklin indicated so could we take their questions next please so that be Councillor Patchacott
thank you Chair and and thanks to the officers for the report I've got as a local Ward Councillor I've had the benefit of a number of discussions and briefings on our own the site and including a phone conversation with with James I just wanted to flag that and I fear you may need to interrupt me if this is part two is the site that is proposed it might move to impart one
is it not enter
Councillor yesterday the options and are referred to gently degloving that's doesn't look it facing the Parkinson so Slaithwaite Road car park was mentioned and and I realised the report the Longley the more you read the reports as it goes on the more I think you get the feeling that it it's recognise the that there are some issues with potentially moving the and that you know more work would need to be done the for England Erso and ever you both nodding prevalent and Janzour think that that affirms that hat but I do want to flag that you know that that site one of the reasons the hotel got planning permission to at this currently being built facing the High Street in front of the car park was because there would be some car-parking spaces behind it even though I know that
a lot of people will be coming to that hotel by public transport but there is a need for some parking spaces I think and it's while whereas there are plenty of car parking spaces really in the town centre at the moment most of the time and far more people are walking or going by public transport the issue is Slaithwaite Road car park is that it provides access to people from a geographical area who don't if who mainly to drive to the town centre but it stopped them having to go out onto Lewisham rise trees along Molesworth Street and turning right in order to get into other car parks and they can't get into claret and rise car park from from those areas to the anyway to the Hither Green part and out that way Whitefoot Ward and those sort of place of people want to go to Lewisham it's far easier and I know that Morley Road is
I think the busiest side road in Lewisham Central Ward in terms of vehicle movements and it's now enters Dale Road might be the busiest actually but it's between those two from memory so I think that indicates the number of vehicles that go in and out of that car park you got to go through Morley Redgate Slaithwaite Road so I do think it'll be certainly be something that will need proper a proper look at if we ever get to that position but what I can see is that the is that the the recommendation is in fact a retain
the the the current legal place building on that site for a good a good while longer because that that to me having read the report I'm convinced it's the best option but it took me a while because I wasn't I didn't think that that demolition might have been surprisingly and perhaps some people that Sam I do think retaining the best option so I am concerned as to how long planning would allow us to would allow
this decision to stand you know retaining than I guess as long as it's a number of years we will be able you know we'll be able to look at other options as well as life but road or Slaithwaite Road might become a sensible one you know I might be wrong with my gut feel about it so I just like some some reassurance about about this about the future really as the this is a sustainable decision though are not going to be turfed off and had nowhere to go
planning departments in some way
thank you thanks look at before your answer Paul or James while call a catslide Johnston Franklin pleasure to call by fellow Ward Ladywell councillor if their list please thanks very much turned I thank you for allowing me to attend the meeting and
I mean I I am a great fan of Richard Rogers and his designs I think I think place later as a fantastic design on a high street I think it's vibrant it offers on
welcoming to the community but lies but like out her card I have my reservations and concerns about you know in terms of would it be you know is a possibility to relocate it to save weight parking space in the future because given that it's already located in the community people know it they've lived in it families lived in it and they would have loved to live in it it seems such a
I don't know a wasted opportunity not to continue with that with it with that space and my other question is I might have got it wrong because of report is very detailed and it I've read twice
if we agree that place label stays and we bill behind it
are we gonna get 69 new homes
I wasn't sure if we are that is a huge drop in what was expected in the beginning and and I appreciate the all all the problems that have have come with it but I would have thought given that this is a a very prominent spur development that there would be a real forward risk assessment done in terms of things that can come up in planning and we know there are lots of things in the changes of law things that do come up and if we if we haven't factor that in because I couldn't find it on the original report that I tried to you know the search to look at I wondered why we didn't put in forward risk assessment so that we really haven't got a so since position at the moment that we're having to make decisions that we didn't think we would have because we thought we would be able to relocate on the the provision elsewhere and my third point is as a little bit about the nursery
I've lived in Lewisham a long time and has been a there's always been a nursery at you know at the back there there was a special needs nursery there was a range of nurseries and I appreciate that obviously it was a it was a a temporary arrangement on you know but it does feel concerning have had quite a few parents contact me about you know the loss of the nursery and of course pairs will be upset and they will be concerned about continuity for their children and I appreciate you have to weigh up you know nursery provision against the cost or firm housing and obviously housing is is our priority but I just wanted to ask if if there has been a move on the nursery in if bay if there has been a spaces being found in the bar to accommodate them thank you for everything thank you thank you thank thankfully before call on officers all problem member to respond as the wish can I just aren't to something what comes love Johnson Franklin says there is a paragraph in the before his their vote recognising this project was a particular risk in it was a new and innovative etc etc and I just want to know what the right level of risk assessed there basically clearly was recognised that this was a particularly risky projects Alison for one of about expression I bought was it are set correctly took a step to Adel extra pick on comes to Johnston fronting SO he would like an Akinci pull repels resigned of he wants to come first all unhappy over just wants to jump been of the the 3 to reply to those place before
slots
a man of Open coming I think come the every per development the we do is for financed so there are times when you do a project managed approach that you come up with a particular obstacle problem they didn't foresee at the beginning of the process their core stage boundaries and this is what we do their housing development so we need to be brave when we get problems and not continue with something that would actually cost us more in the long run and in terms of housing developments they all have to
had either positive break-even or negative impact the HRA the Housing Revenue account so purely and Place Ladywell and it is in two phases of the first phase is around 69 Ellie are council homes phase 2 will deliver more but that's with Place being retained infer in phase one in terms of the work around where it's going to be an extensive exercise was done but there are problems everywhere so there's a car park in Forest Hill that was considered but as a hotel that was is being developed and the former cop site there who was also relying on the car park so this as number variables but Alec pool and James talk about the risk element but this is part of proper development process in that you come up with an obstacle you don't carry on you have to De risk it or move forward they are not based on the Finance financial information you but in terms of the nursery so
the nursery has a commercial laced with Council for 5 years they were aware this process and at the break clause in that contract was going to take place I think this was discussed in Lewisham items on the 27th of March 20 20 they her had various types of communication and the was request in the summer months to extend the the least of the end for them foot to refer the the put cabinet back in December 20 20 was the original data it was extended to March the end March 20 21 unfortunately the nursery for whatever reason didn't tell parents until the 5th of January so the Council has a lot of empathy around the the situation of the parents obviously because when a pandemic situation there are people who rely on the provision there and people who have children know how difficult to this to help school them so that there is an acknowledgement of that what we are doing at the moment is working or CYP offices and we've got a public meet while a meeting parents coming up to discuss it to see what is and what isn't possible now we've done everything we should be doing and given them due notice to leave
in that arrangement they haven't told parents and of course parents now some parents are quite upset about it so we've employed a company and so far we spent 4 thousand pounds on this to find alternative premises of which there have been 13 of them the nursery have rejected almost all of them there are three in particular once progressing in more detail that the Council was paying for that in order to facilitate because the recognition of the parents been putting a very difficult position so but what we cannot do and what we must not do is allow the funding provided by the GLA as it lost in housing development because we have to I have every empathy for the parents but we also have to consider the children in temporary accommodation and there's not a single day that doesn't care go by without one to three more families asking me praying and being extremely concerned about their children as one case of for for children in one room trying to do their homework on their study so we have to remember the peer the parents and the children in temporary accommodation so any units adds that target in terms of our target with thousand homes laid was not part of that anymore we are on course to deliver through started Site Completions our housing target at the moment that COVID me may impact on it but those housing team of done amazing work poor James have done fantastic work along with Lewisham homes and delivering on our housing manifesto target
so this is separate to that but I am just needs to be confident that we're not going to lose any funding because if we do that jeopardises these units in temporary accommodation overcrowding so the Council is doing everything possible to support the nursery in finding new premises so that the nursery needs to take responsibility to engage in that process to find those new premises or a new any process place for them to to clad the continuity of early years
it isn't correct around the the Ofsted reasoning that some of them have been putting forward because you don't that any Ofsted approval to new premises straightaway Acosta operate so an borough tackles the brows looking at me so basically that is the overview from the political side in terms of the nursery and why the change but in terms of check we had to be brave around these changes sometimes if it's not working out for as many to say it's not working out for such action
thanks thanks very much for all the numbers you know where James and Paul do you want to pick up some pine chef Rachel yeah
if I am just one quick go and I'm sure Janesville come in and and clarify just on a point of than numbers Councillor Franks in fact in Johnson's point about the 69 it was a report I wasn't sure yeah yeah monies for larger let's wouldn't want to but it's it's trusted frankly sorry say customers are of other trees my apologies south Derry put up where the is it 69 social homes in the core scheme to be built there plus the 24 retained with place and then there's plus the development potential still to be realised over time I think it's the way I would express that
is that on the same site the development is a name fight on on the whole Ladywell site when it's fully developed over time I think
the that's compared and we we be looking in particular around the social homes compared with a full developments in one single phase 100 and 12 so it's basically 93 compared with 100 12 the other key consideration of a space the overall cost of that and I made the point in my introduction about the the boring profile and comes with that so what this is really part that careful balance that we've re trying to do in bringing this recommendation forward members but this it's the 69 can be achieved on site with the first phase the 24 retained plus the further development potential to come and I think a second point I wanted to make was really a comment about the about time and Councillor cards point about the Slaithwaite Road site I mean we have to be truly careful in bringing its recommendation for the forward that we didn't Ogre reach in terms of the planning process and Councillor could you make a number of points that would clearly applied out through the planning process in my introduction I said there were no other considerations that we haven't fully bottomed out we gone as far as we could in in a difficult year for for all of us to to bring an evaluation took inclusion will clearly other considerations that would need to fly out of the planning process and that would be the degree of risk in there in terms of the the duration I think was the other question you ask I uncertainty seeing this as being a and investment for several years in terms of the refurbishment that will be necessary to the place but twice accommodation I'm James my ones comment more on that but this is a investment for several years is what I would say the on that will obviously discuss that in the planning processes we move so the discussion with colleagues on the phasing side of Estoril thank you James as any comment on any of the points raised that it would have been utterly yeah sure and so on the this Life I point my by by Councillor occurred in terms of
whether outlining colleagues are supportive of the approach to be taken they are we have temporary planning permission for replace building now that will be renewed and as a temporary temporary planning permission going forward so it will be a cyclical and so we're in a position to bring forwards face to development and in terms of your point Councillor frown garden assessment of risk at the outset of the project as Councillor Muldoon had said this was inevitably for everyone accepts he was emotive and an award-winning and something nude hadn't been done in in the UK before on this scale of a moveable building somewhere else and being now what's been worth up to 5 science actually original intention with that they're obviously does become risk and we have to assess that race we had professionals on board we hadn't Employer's Agent who was in charge of checking that the project was being put forward by the contractor's correctly there was through the tendering process to costs associated with doing the building which are contained in the part 2 and I'm sure we'll come on to in relation to in a meeting the costs that were coming back in terms of moving from the people who were tendering where all of around similar nature so there's there was a assessment of these costs at the time that the other point I think to make around that is that the Welsh change since 2 protects came forward in particular the the dreadful tragedy at Grenfell Tower and also the fire in Barking and has made changed to to regulations and to building safety and obviously it's paramount and that we make our building safe for our residents so a big proportion of the cost again which will no doubt go into when we talk about a part 2 report are related to making the building safe in in perpetuity for as long as it needs to be and that wouldn't have been foreseen at the outset of the project
thanks James Paul and Paul and taken whatever order you want to you to we got a lot of your question is yes open all straight into Councillor current followed by Councillor Handley Liam please thank you Chair first can I say I'm delighted that this has been brought forward for development because
I've been banging on about it for the best part of this decade when other so ecologically sensitive sites were targeted and I'm delighted that this is now being put forward I just can't help feeling that the whole point about Ladywell place though was that it was it was lauded and everything back it was supposed to be moveable re locatable and now it's not
so that's the whole point of it is sort of lost in my book now does a proper cost-benefit analysis
or if it does as the report says saved a lot of money on re-housing or keeping a people in temporary housing that is that as great an end it's it's been a success irrespective of any other decisions and but I decided as a full cost benefit benefit analysis include the cost of all those consultants
and are either everyone else
so that's the second point a question rather and earned without breaking any sort of confidence is I earned paragraph 7 point 7 from the financial ones it says they financial risk associated with redeveloping the host sites the largest scheme is not commensurate with the gain in affordable housing numbers I'm I just want to ask that question how carries apps so as it's a big site and even a hundred 12 affordable seems like unambitious compared to the amount of space available now not an architect and hopefully sonorously right so I'm asking as a Labour so I under thought with all the buildings we've got to Ladywell we could get several storeys high that even I would be happy with most residents would that would there that another that second quest to final closure Hoth is yet forget
what assurances will a future motherless modular systems but we have that they will be truly locatable because we might need up with the same problem became thank you thank you
I haven't got the time I'll go to Councillor Hanley and going to take his questions as well the man and before Yonsei their car thank you Collier the lady won the Patriot welcome please thank you Chair well Liam said Aqua along what I was going to sign about a marginal end of January changing the certain other risk assessment but a wider remember his love shared the housings scrutiny committee at the time minds' and Peter was my deputy being summons to the meeting for five or six years ago there was a previous man and the housing officers and the director Kevin shame and and then the the then cabinet member was so Dania Negan and you know it was a wonderful idea you know I'm sure I can't remember the risks that were mentioned in that meeting to me about not being able to move this earlier this project around and it was only going to be temporary because of a survey by inside the major was makeable place sigh it takes years now we can see Catford mere regenerate and everything else how these things time so you know the numbers of the the big big structure of put up was never even the 500 we were supposed to build in those four years it was always in temporary accommodation and had temporary planning permission with respect it's still got today will be no press but it being a weeping so this it were Sandy Grierson Richard Walters came down and had to be over a year photographs with him the right people and whether your outside the Council's and whether a wonderful thing and the main thing was that we could use again we could move it to another site and provide temporary accommodation Pearl people that we have to
citizen in 19 and up to 90 minutes away from the Borough which will you have to be 2 thousand of people we go in temporary accommodation so over from the legal point of view of the Council where so this why can't lead to be go back and Chappie tenanted
because in I've I've bought something if any of us by something and you know you tell you can't use and B rec views are for one area than you want to move it but in the instructions he says you can the and when you find you can't because you're going to do some then
that you go back to the manufacturer of London and you know and the Council's I believe so yeah but that I believe the Council we always get turned over by consultants and I think at times we to make a stand and say Look we're not being a big wheel public money here are we to do that something about it or lazy investigated the see what
thank you very strong point forcefully made and we all got a thank you very much
what needs to be so thank you very much Councillor Handley and before our asked of the response of his domain to save time in the long run I am going to act if you come and see a Israeli cannot visit on the same theme and be quicker if I just do it they're in it with all the answers at the same time is clearly the issue of and an innovative project with two benefits the wage built in speed etc and the usability of it and what to six times as the you mentioned 5 4 5 6 times whatever it was
that was very clearly the aim of this for environmental reasons for cost reasons etc things change Corve it added put the one side but even more so potentially the Fair regulations etc. of changes and them the costs of things which will have to take on board put aside the risk conversation that we've had a little bit elements a moment ago
if we didn't have the fire issues if these extra costs hadn't happened would we be in a position where we could take down late Place Ladywell and if we had to sate relocated and can you say going forward that eventually whenever we get into a position in the round with all his various factors will we be ever able to re use that building on the site and wet and if we can't
why can't we if it's what a product that is lessons learned when looking to mean things change after attitude etc but as any any hindsight Mormons where we think Well actually you know if we'd done this omission to realise that not individuals just as other places where we can learn lessons from this because you can see at face value from college taken on board the various points made in the situate the conditions way at the moment it still
it never is you know it's not going to do what it said it would over and over again never made once more so I'll Lambley VAT with officers Paul Paul and James and welcome to address those points please again jump in as the person
OK
I'll have a quick run if that's OK to address your point Chair Councillor Hanley's and cast the currants on youth your first one about lessons and eastern innovation and speed and I look and not trying to be clever Dick here this evening are and and can't cast awkward now glances backwards this was innovation I know SA real homes that are provided real value in this far and I I wouldn't want to criticise that's all they've been delivered at speed and they still have value in them
in terms of the the main lesson I would identify chair it where possible if one is thinking about moving module accommodation around identify the sites are a front from the outset and each of the refinement of costing at that that's the other key point it would enable you to develop a costing based on that particular site and any movements but is quietly to me the Council was moving at pace against genuine housing need and try to address that and I can't criticise that whatsoever so the only way to refine that would have been to get a firm pricing on an actual site let learnings come from there are we we own that within the team
Councillor Hanley's Pauline are on and not moving I I mean I I'm not I I I'm not saying that we could not move place and that's why I spent some time looking at other options so I it's a sensitive conversation and the bombings of Members want to continue in part to but I don't think anywhere I have said or the officers are saying that we could not move place there was a serious option appraisal to consider that I think it's important part point to make the considerations for us though and the council in the report is cost of doing so and some of those inherent risks some of which we spoken about the planning considerations on other sites and some of the surveys and technical analysis we would need to do to fully bottom-up and things have changed so in that cost appraisal we have picked up new costs from EU regulations are urged to take on board their considerations James outline previously arm
On on cancer currents point I just this the the the numbers to cost or point us once pick up particularly Councillor current I'm it going back to my earlier answers the EA it's there in a table in the report the actual net social homes figures just to restate those so by phasing we get to that of first phase of 69 affordable homes so to put in Porgess if you if you return off a divergence of the page number
My daughter
if a failure a sexual 5 13 by we present James presents the balance of social housing ranging from 112 so 93 4 place which is the 69
new homes on the first phase and 24 are within place retained and that's the real balance Councillor Karon in terms of that consideration as I outlined the the first two options to relocate and demolish would present the option for the a full development on the Ladywell site that would be a sizeable scheme of over 200 units
200 pounds now harbour towards half of those hundred 12 would be affordable or social homes
but towards 90 to 100 million pounds is the key point
versus around 30 million for phased development Koutsokoumnis the key point are stop there thank you have please do add but consequence muted but that's good because I'm not lend you come back in at this stage early in it on my visit still a couple of was model total world where they are going into Part II at some point of yesterday the end of the concert well so not an answer that migrant workers gets not yet I'm not let you come back in at this moment you will be able to come back in when I say there's a moment to come in with I want to call Councillor Millbank over the last personal been waiting to ask a question
and then we can go back to look at follow-ups overtaken in departing Councillor Millbank lifting the ethically must Chelsea supports keep the older things I thank you for Kohli mix I have been waiting for some little while and I just wanted to pick up the point actually about the nursery because obviously nurses are very important but I think her McCulley kilts Le Beau put some this that really well office said look set nurses are important that nursery now presumably can be part of the barras plans in terms of nursery provision across the Borough that we're talking about a provision where parents are using it for maxima for up to five years compared to by police in that site if other read the report correctly we talk about 10 families with lifelong at tendencies and I think it's a difficult situation I can understand me that local councils are being put under pressure possibly by the nursery but my reading report what I've learned today your good notice has been given to the nurse are very sympathetic to her situation but I understand support is how we've been how to find onto to premises and that's great that like a say we have to be brave I think as a Council for provision which is quite short term in terms of its benefit to certain repair with as prepared to 10 families benefit in long term and in terms of them being able to build on that site so I really want to make sure that that point really can't get noted and thanked the officers and Councillor Bell the emphasising that thank you
thanks John but could it be the last question before we go depart to Liam if you want to very succinctly please just stay the question that has not been unsaid as part of the answers the moment ago
commuted
it still be this
I am those myself and inaccurate muted elsewhere by someone else so report him the the Christian was it's got no challenge on the actual chance so table that Sir Paul and James have produced that's that's great would my Christmas with the size of that sides I find it hard to believe and could be because I'm a Labour's and you'll ever gone I was that's so let very clear question that their ticket address that in your final answers in Paul won praise for James pour belt you've got your hand up but I don't when Ryan think there's enough time for will pay going into part two as you not so officers and replace
well I think just quickly men and those that was clearly the subject of some work by design team they would have been having discussion with planning colleagues about the the appropriate level of development on that site and the headline number was 260 in the region turned 60 units Holmes Councillor Curran I that's where the discussions had got to that had not got to the point of a clearly and approved planning consent a finer grain discussion let me put it that way that could have influenced that number fire or in fact lower to be honest but I think that was felt to be operating within a reasonable brief but to achieve a sizeable scheme
and any comments to Councillor Moulton
none because Chair
OK just jacket
On that basis o policy of better physical way from Councillor
apologies I think count I'm surprised Councillor Coroners and come back and said this question was answered there I don't know Shah
completed but he can't do it again
weir gates and I'm just suggesting that perhaps there's a misunderstanding a player
in this Council because I I had a concern that the development on the site behind Lady of our place
would now
I to concerns one of overdevelopment of the site which would then lead us to a position where we would have caused a problem for the site that will appear once we move leg of our place but the other thing was at the moment it probably looks like there aren't enough units
on the site behind Ladywell place that I think that's because of planning concerns about the fact that James can explain this you know what I'm getting at James I guess I'd go to yet so
clarify what what people are getting confused by what gets just to clarify Councillor Paul in his asking long we having more building on the site in essence bottom layer why to come up with these numbers get an you are clarifying that the made them his hands trying to say that the there's a reason for that and I think James better expanded than I ever could well I bet it'll be James or poor bellows also got his hand up it's up to one of the other obvious Vogue wants to answer this polling place
James got the job and to get thank thank us could earn and Casica and and I just wanted to clarify so we pull said and for more says 260 times that included the relocation of the place building to on the actual Ladywell site it's been mooted that 232 hundreds could be delivered there as full so that has been through early planning advice there has to be some sim it has to be sympathetic to the to the local conditions and that would be sort of raising up through the site would be what the plans are currently thinking in terms of just building to the back to the rear of the building and those not being that many homes or not perceived to be that many homes the development back needs to be sympathetic towards the front coming forwards at some day and so our plan includes we would be looking for us to be submitting a master plan that would see the how the whole site is going to be developed and as as we're building faces the rear phase will be sympathetic tools just deformed face it comes

6 Scrutiny Update Report

does out to answer the question thanks James I think it answered a true one-off at this stage am she would beg some other questions but when I go now take them at this stage at this meeting obviously but as ever it's a it's a it's it's it's a watch this space for what to respite that Alain on this issue I'm going to close this item which is the part one item on on this subject we will go into the next business Panel 8 in which scrutiny update report and then following that item we will go into the exclusion of Press and public he take part two of this item
unless earlier if the first clear to everyone so item 6 scrutiny update report this gives the opportunity for Chairs of Committees to report a activities has been going on in their committees or is anything else make refers to the Budget day etc as voluntary opportunity for Chairs to do this if they have something to report so I look in the chops to take any chances anything they wish to raise the business Panel or partial
I will just give it a moment if that's not the case am someone is waving at me I think
an accredited under chapbooks wealth following procedure Councillor Carter of will be taken first as is pushed using the chap box and Councillor Sobel be taken second because he was just wearing his raving beyond the camera so Councillor current please thank you Chair first of Cosa fastest finger first and
I just wanted to report that one of the things that the Sustainable Development Committee has raised and put forward to moan Kevin as a recommendation that the council house a place on its website single place that people can go to to seek advice on how to live more sustainably reduce their carbon footprint and some of it is basic but the people need to know these things in order to make a start on it and its very form part of our climate change emergency plan and I just wanted to report that and we're looking forward to see how that develops thank
thanks to lay him at we all agree it's very important to be proactive and to assess residences which is recant and doing the things we all need to do for the future Councillor sober you ready please
for another creamy
can't hear you
so a a briefly they are children young people select committee may to referrals to Mayor and Cabinet recommending that two of the cuts proposals be not taken in this financial this coming financial year one was the cut to a children and adolescent mental health services which we commission from slam and the other was the cut to health visitors which we commissioned from the Lewisham Greenwich NHS Trust and in our next meeting we will be looking at will be getting our our six-monthly safeguarding report and also will be looking at
a 6 month follow up to the work we did on temporary accommodation and how it affects families her are placed outside of the borough particularly if the how children attending Lucian skills which of course has been alluded to during the discussion on Place Ladywell
thank you very much for that much thank you very much Councillor Sauber
I am a camera yes I am so at this point we will go them report to the Committee that we go interesting present public and as I like to do at this point I would call on or legal advice other OS Councillor solicit Emil tonight as Georgina Jean any to explain why real required to do this so members of the public and press are away
so if Georgie they refer to in your Cameron Georgina if you don't wish to that's Fanta no it's simply it simply to put in in in simple language it simply so that matters over confidential commercial sensitive nature which may affect her future negotiations in terms of commissioning the were infected commissioning procurement or any other issues relating to transactions which the Council may into into are not made public in advance of what are inevitably confidential negotiations thank you very much Georgina late tree behaviour yes
I am not really do look Tory thank you so I'm not basis what I do at this point is to funk I any members of the public and residence and do those OP listening in on the webcam function of tonight's meeting
hopefully they have got something from the beating and maybe we could again
and we will therefore now and the public portion of the return to go into the close part 2 as just