Licensing Committee - Wednesday, 27th January 2021 at 7:30pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Licensing Committee
Wednesday, 27th January 2021 at 7:30pm 









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1 Minutes
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2 Declarations of Interest
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3 Maestro 44-45 Deptford Broadway, London, SE8 4PH

the Committee my name is Councillor either summer of Sky and I am chairing and Chair of this Committee
I'm just going to read out and the guidance I had this meeting I know of many we've heard it all before but it's I'll have to do this further for the the webcast so that the meeting is wrong correctly and everybody knows what they should be doing so please could you all switch your microphone to get unless I call upon you to speak
we do not want to be disturbed by any background noise when you have finished speaking please remember to mute your microphone again if a member of his committee wishes to ask a question I ask that they indicate this using the chap Panel Members are reminded they should remain on camera at all times therefore if a member of the Committee loses internet connection or power or they require a comfort break can they please inform the Chair of the Committee me that is all the clock immediately so that they can be so that we can adjourn the meeting until the connection have been restored
before the business starts I would like to make clear the procedure for this evening this is a formal virtual public meeting the purpose of which is to make a decision on the application having considered all of the visit evidence presented before us including including written report verbal representations and any questions asked and answered the applicant will be invited to speak first and members will then be invited to ask questions the objective may then speak and again members or gave it to ask questions I will allow five minutes for each presentation because time for this is limited please ensure that there is no repetition when Members have heard all the evidence the meeting will close and deliberation we made elsewhere that decision of its will be sent to all parties by e-mail within five working days of the Fleetham
some of the microphone on 11 October something ouncil OK so good evening everybody I'd apologies I have for this meeting tonight often councillors Hauer's councillors wise and I'm now going to read out the Members at the Licensing Committee who are present please could you confirm that you are present at this meeting and I'm just going to have get my
by raising your hand actually just confirmed that your present by raising your hand or Jack no actually no sorry confirmed it vocally adjust any microphone and confirm that you're here so Councillor Campbell
Councillor Elliott
president Councillor Hall
Councillor Bowden co yes family Chair
Councillor Carlo
pregnancy and Councillor Paul
present Chair thank you everyone I want to read out the names of the officers present at this meeting again could you confirm your present hatred a man present picture pictures our lawyer and Jade Morton
she is not here this evening I'm assuming Petra's that right correct Jason other is another one of our lawyers Lisa Hooper from the Crown enforcement regulation she's a Crime Enforcement regulation manager present Chair and Lisa spool

1 Minutes

present Chair thank you thank you very much everybody so can we agree the minutes of the meeting that was held on the 2nd December that was palette Amusements Deptford High Street can we agree those minutes

2 Declarations of Interest

yeah if on nodding their heads that's great thank you very much that those minutes were agreed grey right thank you thank you Councillor Carlo so can I now ask any or any members of they have any declarations of interest in this item which is maestro 44 to 45 took Deptford Broadway

3 Maestro 44-45 Deptford Broadway, London, SE8 4PH

no no declarations of interests thank you very much so I'm now going to go on to Lisa Hooper 2 an outline the case for us thank you very much Lee sober to you I chair and good evening everyone
so the application this evening relates to make maestro at 44 to 45 Deptford Broadway SE 8 4 p haitch and the application is a review application that was applied for by PC Simon Butler of Lewisham much cotton place under section 51 of the Licensing Act 2 thousand and 3 the application has been sought on the grounds of prevention of public safety prevention of public nuisance and prevention of crime and disorder the premises itself is currently licensed for the following activities alcohol for consumption on the premises between the hours of 10 till 10 in the morning and so one am Sunday to Thursday 10 I am till 2 30 am Friday to Saturday and regulated entertainment between the hours of 10 pm and 11 pm Monday to Saturday and late night refreshment between the hours of 11 pm to 1 30 am Sunday to Thursday and 11 pm till 3 am Friday to Saturday the last date for receiving representations for this application was the 22nd of December 20 20 no further representations were received from responsible authorities however Members should note that PC Butlers' application exhibits a statement from Frank Elan around air from the Council's confident regulation service after having regard to all representations you here this evening members must take such steps as they consider necessary for the promotion of licensing objectives the Licensing Committee may
1 modify the conditions of their licence to exclude a licensable activity from the scope of the licence 3 suspend the licence for a period not exceeding 3 months
4 revoke the licence or 5 to take no action if it is considered that no steps are necessary for the promotion of licensing objectives
her back to you Chair thank you very much Lisa for that so so it's now up for the applicant to present their case the applicant is the other police so welcome PC Simon Butler I'll just the I've met you before we haven't met before you knew to licensing
I need to licensing yes I am Chair yes sir book birth by a year or so no OK our and Tom Bishop Bushnell was going to be your representative this evening is that correct and you're going to outline your case for the review's accurate yes really open but I can oversee then Tom thank you very much about him and Madam I know you and your colleagues will have read very clear representations by PC Butler page 13 of your agenda and the officer in Iran at page fair to force are not going to repeat those
and I thought in my five minutes I would try to draw out the to headlines that emerge from the events that led to this review and from those two headlines explained why PC Butler has invited the changes in conditions that he does the First headline I hope is the most obvious that there have been repeated breaches of the conditions on this licence Mathema wasn't about number conditions to break begin with it
that as you can see from the police and local authority visit a worryingly large number of them have been breached often repeatedly I'll give you two examples in the limited time the thirst is the repeated failure to comply with the condition in Annexe 2 regarding SAA daughter just beyond 8 matter we say that has been breached on the second of August the 10th of August 23rd of August the 30th August the 5th of September and 20th of September
secondly the conditions regarding music which should always have stopped at the latest at 11 pm should have been subject to an acoustic limiter and should have only been played loudly with the doors closed that we say was breached on the 2nd August 2 extent you saw a neighbour complained in writing the 10th of August the 23rd of August the 30th August and then that whole saga with the sound limiter that you saw reference MPC battlers representations at best that sadly matter appears to have been delivered on the 5th of August but never installed and without Mr. crater the deepest representative knowing about it and this is all going on in an area which needs particular care because as you know madam it is within one of your to cumulative impact Zones
the second headline is inadequate engagement by management with the police and with the local authority Madam you will have seen that PC Butler and officer and Iran have really tried hard to engage with this premises you will have seen reference to seven separate visits pass the meeting on before September where Mr. crater admitted that management he's improving and two letters from separate bodies within the local authority
this review has been brought as a last resort clearly had steps being taken after the mistakes of August we wouldn't be here
so Masri repeated breaches of conditions and the need for better engagement of a to headlines I hope it is obvious why PC Butler has invited the conditions he does at pages 22 and 23 p agenda he does not invite revocation but obviously it's a matter for the committee because he in the Met hope that the changes brought about by these new conditions would allow the premises to operate properly in the future the engagement headline word we hope be dealt with by the removal of the DPS and a wake-up call of this review and we previously suggested a suspension as well to encourage that but I think given effort is obviously closed until March or however that probably isn't necessary any more than the rest of the conditions that PC Butler as included are all targeted at the breaches that we've seen the Frémaux significant obviously one removing live music and that's obviously because of the noise issues from this premises remember that live music was a concern from a 2nd August and again on the 23rd of August
a live music we say is inherently harder to control and limit from recorded music
and so we suggest in this case needs to be restricted
the second significant change would be reducing effectively the terminal hour and all hours to midnight back in August when the premises could stay open late there were noise nuisances add half midnight on two separate occasions the second and 10th August then once there was as you'll remember that blanket 10 pm cattle for all premises we see the blatant disregard for it on Halloween when the police attended that's why we say something must be done about the hours
and then the third most significant conditions suggested is having to as I adore staff on the door between 9 pm and closing across the board again to tackle the repeated problems are drinkers out the front of the premises
and the doors being open allowing music to escape
I hope the other conditions the CCTV he instant log signage etc. etc. I availed speak for themselves
Madam I think that's five minutes as you know PC buses on the line so we'll be very happy to answer any questions you you have OK like emissions thank you for that Mr. Bushnell OK I'm going to hand over to members now to ask any questions about the pick up PC Simon Butler or or tomboyish on his just presented anyone have any questions
OK said there were no questions to for you at the moment so the applicant the applicant here are not the applicants sorry the defendant of the owner of the put that new piece of the premises
sorry I've
I so I'm trying to get my
some is going wrong here from trying to get something Africa Roman
sorry Youth tell me your name and supplementary guidance so that the could you let almond handwritten OK on Hello Mr. Ahmadzai fit could you just present your case into fence of what the police have to set
where to start off with our set them starting with the Sunday with us the slices that such a move issue or back into Tattenham batting I believe sits
when the Committee to start with and the provision as an old Talbot nobody's told because of the property structure and was mentioned which is apparently a building whose actually from the fire every was rebuilt from the border from such as
been hoping to file so even at even though putting the son of the oval running since 2 thousand and 6 often when a son a butler Kamin boat and the previously yes we did have some issues arena
noise which was actually managed to defence and upset her observation boat better during them convert could Scrivener over time periods of Guiseley yes the Albertina issues because of people were actually confined and asked that the community was actually no easy to control the better was the money to be on top of her artist but to restart the peace
to send me to win the opener in having a light reasons system still you such subtly we've never had live music played since then because it was actually start from the belief from the 4th of August taking a board with that issue in to the an appeasement something August so weapons and wide because the word bling we serve and that Sunita sense from the relation to the solution Councillor Hugh Abbot not that a gardener's was order as I don't have yes
he was mentioned on the and at the last meeting we'll hurt somebody is not doing enough with them
admittedly Lisa when somebody from the police station and was of the fabricate that it was actually clear that because the restaurant no venue where we play lovely the Bisley all the time was on the IRB player were once or twice a week
it was actually a breeder put an application package 2 thousand the team average regarding that matter to me you for one but now has never been completed some B1
have gone away
people who are having major issue since 2 thousand 6 and the rather sudden I dunno while but to suppose
Fochabers OK made business and be trying to run us and hope for it with the vision concern in all sort areas that I said
which had an emergency summit declared a string neighbours of St because of coming to committee after 14 years of reading
I don't know at an abdominal Sarah been targeted or some inventor
OK I can thank you very much for that said to Members have any questions for on the premises licence holder
no one has any questions to ask are not unless Mon Fri Madam and can I just ask the other German once the place for young fit and think about putting a variation in four when for the problems of the possibilities of the issues that may arise from the noise limiter he's been business some 14 years quite experienced licensee by all cats without mouth service may be the variation should have been approached for discussed her regarding noise nematode we could have been them they'll be more RIM amenable to that but then that wasn't disgusted
OK did you want to respond to that
OK go ahead
so your name is unknown here on on gets a half that your name I got a different idea
I am and I care yes wanted out them he look if we can always represented application that was made but then we were Lisa over you the as Lebanon he mentioned anything that saw me to us actually was actually trying to increase from 11th in 1 flat looked after when there was advice because I live music is one of our men outnumbered men so Street speech anomaly that have used on
when we have used not only did we get for managing pob suppose they will actually as open is no no business his flight to run until after taking a fully ponds of Paddy Barnes and sound on Brecon manage proper old-fashioned simple well
OK I'm I got a question hidden counts rate that full fat cats very asks the question asked for bringing him in a stark choice to quit or could question myself cannot ask you wrote the breaches of the conditions that and Mr. other ran and ran and did has talk to you about them Soviet what's your response to it the fact that you put break even found to breached your conditions on a number of occasions what's your response to that
swigging without line managers
exchange was forced to debit which is one of the one that really dispute them even when Simon Pepler Barlow was over because I had that feeling roads and the word professionals other fire must assisted from Seattle travel I was away even we're dealing with data for some reason the conga addicted to just a message with a response to that one would be operating enough be previous slug tables under the SORP people we were well known that good when out shopping in the way we have yet to decide to establish which actually be overrated okay okay I said cancer earlier than I have cast a Carlo cancer-related first
thank you Chair and pedestrians to answer the question I sorry I didn't pick up some of it the coming through adding herbarium highly so I know it's hard to know what it was hard as I do just want asked a question regarding a statement was made about the people not complying with the the the Cohmad curfew restrictions clatter some are you referring to customers
did I hear that correctly
so he asking the question of Mr. Armond okay the Speaker
and customers yes
so so you're saying that is the reality was that he has been a misunderstanding in terms of this corporate or oppression with which will add and with a 10 club with four by telephone shouted all and of leaving was about to leave the no one read busy were told that we lack the technical e-petition Chet said that there was a vision and at the other end to believe that the
I'm sorry I think at last week
I said to where the misunderstanding attempted to Temple Kolko perfect that we thought we have to get shut the door a tense of remaining Postma will leave with a getting involved in the when we had the desert sun Butler without was established and after that we comply with adviser was given
because it is stuck in the report there were some mentions regarding food being prepared after the clinical curfew do disagree with that or the other element in the let me sir exactly totally disagree
I'm really started to conduct is really bad are you saying you totally disagree yes thank you thank you very much OK Councillor Carla next
thank you GIA no crucially just added on told me salad I you shut of staff
you you're not going to be about words
were you some chunk of staff
sort of that I would say you will know the only reason Jijiga lantern way we have to reduce our staff able to know that over the past
G2 and the fact that there is no need to customers about the feeling that the British spend the this were wedding load very very low obviously averages of supply
but we're not witnessed of some stuff
OK then thank you so thank you very much and I don't have any other questions in the chap so
sorry honest one-touch money something very important on its return to apologise I keep losing my thing so I'm apologise that sounds very unprofessional that's does not it's just tech it just technical stuff so them so there are no further Enquirer in the and further questions to this we going to make a decision on this outside of the meeting and is going to I'm satisfied that the members of this Committee have read and heard all the information required to make a decision before we leave this meeting and proceed to the vote and to ensure that every Member who will be voting on this item has been present throughout and has had no internet disruptions so please can each Member now confirmed that they have been present throughout this item and has heard all the evidence and representations when our Claire cause out your name thank you
carried out by the Met reconciled say and certainly city and you have been prisons Councillor of Sky and Councillor Elliott's get even present all the time yes
I have yet clear if the queue cancelled Yanko yes I have clear Councillor Kalou yet how good thank you and Councillor town
present declare making
K so thank you very much everyone for attending this that for this meeting this item that decision will be sent to you within 5 working days and the meeting is now closed and the Councillors of now move into a breakaway rumour will make a decision discuss what we've heard the saving and come to a decision of what to do with this item K thank you very much everybody good night