Housing Select Committee - Thursday, 28th January 2021 at 7:00pm - Lewisham Council Webcasting

Housing Select Committee
Thursday, 28th January 2021 at 7:00pm 

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6 Select Committee work programme
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but thank you very much for that time the welcome again I was the one who are joining us now as we go them go live on them housing select for meeting under our like to ask him

5 Allocations consultation

4 Budget cuts

Kevin was speaking earlier and there was some questions that term members would like to ask and
and I have had my question parcels of my own question a cabin will place a put it on Le Mans language how you're going to realise this 600 Kate place
yeah OK well I think there are sort of floor areas I think by moving to online and by moving to phone work we have really put down on a significant amount of time that officers have spent dealing with customers in fairly none productive and not constructive ways when they came through the front door for all sorts of reasons partly because people came without appointments and people came with duplicate work and came back again and again and actually when you deal with them online and you deal with them on phone it's much easier much quicker to deal with them in that way so as a big administered of course that we can take out the system secondly it's you know our investment in IT we've got an integrated housing system now before we had lots of different systems and so when you put information in four from a client from a customer about their application process and their assessment process you it had to be put in several times in several different systems and that made a very very admin heavy lots of staff time wasted duplicating stuff and going back put the same information into different systems that's much quicker now which more streamlined and means that we have to spend a lot less time doing that sort of thirdly a mentioned the Licensing investment that was made and I T again you know I really Creed overall that means that we the lot of the admin burden that we had as a as officers in the Council which we took from landlords we've not transferred that back to landlords they get their the spend all their time then in that their application process putting their documentation together before the application process can start for the licences so that's really really important
then there's the notion of generic working so it's something solid base but working which more across the boundaries means that we can actually allocate and target our resources which more effectively because the new interreg it has existing gives us better management information so we know where the blockages are we know where the whole of SA and we can target our resources which were affected but so that means that across our workforce across our workforce of around one in 100 and fit 48 posts we think we can take a 10 to 15 posts over the next two years because of those efficiencies so that's that I think that explains where where the money is going to come from and in terms of the impact on the client we will make sure that the services as good as it is now not even better because the investments that were making and the changes that we made will enable us to do that I hope that is helpful as an answer cancer
thank you very much it is helpful but before you go before Earl ask other Members to come in could you please let us that the not what is then impact in terms of a staff for employment is gonna be affecting a start employment in the now in the in the near future or other plants about so sadly potentially we think there might be between 10 and 15 jobs that might go here but what I will say to the Committee A is that the Council always as a last resort makes pick were done and so we will explore all of the potential mitigating opportunities
which come with you know having a council's biggest we've got so we will look to redeploy people first into roles that are growing
first of all within the service but then across the Director and indeed across the Council we will look to use the natural turnover that we get in a big organisation as as carefully as possible so that where the opportunity where the about where we have to down size then will use that process you know to make sure that we do that as as effectively as possible and and we will of course
look at any other mitigating POS potential that we've got so as as as we move through this covert pandemic there are other opportunities for staff to do other things will make sure that we prioritise the staff to make sure that the garbage answers to go for those except
I suppose what I'm saying Councillor yes there are potential redundancies were is is that what the Council wanted to know certainly not a is the last resort yes it's last resort and we will do everything we can to mitigate them and of course what I will say is that we haven't this is this is obviously the Mayor has agreed to these proposals yet there's a formal process that we will go through their staff in terms of consultation with them and involving them in the in the process of change and also of course steel with the trade unions and make sure the trade unions have a full involved in as well so that there's proper representation for the staff as they go through what is inevitably traumatic experience in time but you know as I say we'll do everything we can to be supportive as possible to that process thank you took a couple of questions at the time so Councillor Gallagher and the then followed by Councillor Carter please thank you Chair and thanks can for your and explanations and a couple of questions
talking specifically about some of the cuts in the paper and see 10 the Housing Services Review and I've seen to talk to buy a thing staff redundancies and the concerned by the possibilities of delays in the services the residents at might receive as we mitigate the condemnation of the service as any I T systems hi come we ensure as best as possible that the actual service to liberate won't be impacted and following on later and not enough cut proposal we also say that it will reduce the grey flexibility and on our ability to respond to spikes in demand in the kitchen could be limited considering that we all know the housing crisis is growing we all know things are worse than they were a year ago the nowhere year before that and it's it's very very concerning that we would be taking away resourcefully know things are quite likely to get worse again and even though obviously some of the online working has has had brought Dr proactivity at there's also a whole host of people who can access services in that kind of way which I'm sure we all know and does a person and on the second question relating to that as well it talking about how we need to work more closely with statutory and third sector partner organisations to meet the needs of residents who might require additional support can you explain a little bit more about that and what that means and how we're going to do that in a service that's being cut thank you OK because the go for the question of
so I just want to go back to the the the overarching position the Council's in you know we're gonna make 28 million pounds worth cuts really really important that we do that across the council and really important that we use the investments that was made to try and make things as efficient as possible
I think that the truth is that we will be able to deliver the service as effectively as we have done in the past in many cases I think it be more climate friendly and it will enable decision making to happen quicker and as a better place for for clients part because the new systems just give us that that that Cassidy to do that I'm confident that we can do that
of course when I went when we decide that that this element of flexibility is taken at the budget when the Council takes 28 million pounds out of its budget of which we're taking 600 thousand August 2 years at the housing budget that of course you got that that 600 thousand pounds that you don't have but what it doesn't mean that your service has to suffer it just means that you don't have that level of resource of course in the meat what we have got what what what what I have ensured is that we have got flexibility within the grant raging that we have 2 covers over this covert period and for the period that follows covert in terms of homelessness and will use that grant to plug any of those challenges that we might have been in the future
am I think going forward in terms of the third sector well look I think you know homelessness isn't just a home problem a housing problem you know homelessness is the combination often for many of us will citizens of a whole series of service needs which could be social Services related it could just be employment related it could just be helped sorting out their benefits and a could just be you know work that they need to do that that many community groups could do with them so just bill of the confidence again so you know what I'm saying is that in in future we really need to be holistic in the in dealing with our clients and customers recognising that they that hot solving the housing issue although a hugely hugely important for them is is is only one of the steps that we need to say to solve the wider problem that they might have yeah so I hope I hope that helps the information that helps to categorise it
the but thank you thank you very much for that Kevin before I go to Councillor C Callahan I'd like to notify the public that we heard of a problem initially I with the technology and for that matter with the public might have missed part of the introduction by Kevin Sheehan with the second director
in Lewisham out like kept to as to request Kevin to go a little bit by candidates Hubbard quickly introduce days of the West of Arab publican get a handle of what we are discussing about
thank you Chair yes I'm happy to do the so I I just give the the sort of backdrop really that to cancel like many other councils in the country is facing a very very challenging financial position and this comes about after what is now 11 years of austerity policies particularly policies by the government that has affected local government
so that means that we the Council now has had a year after year after 11 years cuts to its budget and the you know has taken a significant amount of our spending power away from us there's no sense that the government are going to discontinue that Policy as we move forward so as a prudent council but we have to do is balance our books we have a statutory responsibility to do that we have to spend within a spending limits and it's illegal for us to be on that so that's why unfortunately the council has to face this really challenging position and also of course as you are aware we've had you know a year almost a year now of covert 19 pandemic crisis which cost the Council like many of the largest sources have had to spend considerable resources supporting the most vulnerable of our community and ensuring that they're safe and secure this terrible period that we're in at the moment I will so should mention that this isn't just a Lewisham issue this is a national issue the Local government Association which is the umbrella organisation for all local authorities which includes local sources from all across the political spectrum they've done some analysis in terms of the impact of the 11 years of austerity policy and and what they worked out that there's a 4 billion pound hole in local government finances nationally so you can imagine 4 billion pounds said that the challenge to balance our books collectively but particularly in that those councils in inner city areas where we depend on government grant significantly is really really really challenging the future and so just to put that in context again in that in a period than talking about the government grant which the council gets which is on top of the Council Tax that we that we collect and the business rate of the government grant that we get best being slashed by 50 percent in that period so you can see that the Council ends up in a situation whereby having done really as much as we can we end up having to take you know fairly challenging proposals to you for for for cuts
so the Council's proposed list is 20's is 40 million pounds over the next three years
and of that 40 million pounds unfortunately because of the way that governments has as a funded us we need to make 28 million pounds in the first year of of savings of cuts and that's an that's what's in front of you tonight is that the is the is the is the Housing Committees proportion of there are the housing service proportion at which is 600 thousand pounds over the next two years and I did I just also wanted to mention that this 28 million pounds that we've estimated that we need to make them to savings it still runs as considered amount of risk for us as a Council why is that because COVID-19 has affected our collection rate for Council Tax collection rate and we you know we are mindful of the you know that one of the one of the really terrible things that's going to come out of COVID-19 is that there's going to be an increase in employment particularly our young people but again that could impact on the Council's Council Tax collection rate the future which means that we have less of a budget to spend on the services I also was the mentioned business rates clearly we're we're depend on businesses coming back after the COVID-19 problem and I know I don't need to remind you Chair and the Committee that you see news everyday as businesses that are going out of business jobs going and so so that has an impact on a business rates collection service then there's our own commercial estate we like any good Council we have a number of commercial properties which we rent out to provide income for the Council and were used adding come to to spend on our services for the most the priority services for the most vulnerable and and so if that income and doesn't come back to the Kensal after Gove 19 does a real commercial risk there that we will again the on a further budget pressure
and and those are the those are the that's the backdrop to the situation that the Council has an in and that's why we really don't have many options in terms of 28 million pounds we we've put forward proposals that just get get astir and you know that's that's bus it's very challenging for everyone and I just went I specific said that how fortunately in the housing service we have been investing in our staff and in are change programme over the last bullet be begun at before COVID-19 and we talked about modernising our service transforming it from being a very much face to face service into being an online and phone-based service investing in our in in I see technology we spend a million pounds this have been planned before Covenant 19 but it's been you know we spent in the last year million pounds investing in our IT to give us an integrated Housing system on the one hand which means that we can curl or duplication a lot of administration and and and really be a much more effective service in future when we're working which more generically now we've learned that in in codes 19 not just in in house he but right across the council working better across the the various boundaries which again means that you become more efficient and you can cut out you know wasted time
and unafraid of other emerged also are technical nation we spend 30 million pounds growth on temperate combination trolley and we're looking at so the structural issues there which I think if we if we organise ourselves better there we will be able to do much more end to end management of that gross budget and that will mean that we'll have less pressure on the General Fund as we go forward and that combination of of of fighters puts it a good place
to deal with this challenge that we've got clearly we'd rather not have that challenge but are but we believe we're in a good place to do with that those of the factors that influence that I hope that helpful share that thank you very much on them
sorry to an automatic come back again on the something that we had then gone through and I hope the public no help now comply know where we are on the meeting and we are on the question time now it is
Councillor Callaghan who had the was next on the question please go ahead councillor thank you Chair and thank you for double updating us calving and in the light of this and I have two questions one is how are these tracks for my shoes going to impact on our vulnerable residents that for whatever reason aren't able to engage with that technology who still need face-to-face what are we going to do to ensure they still get service and secondly how the cuts going to impact on our building and buying homes strategy like plans and because obviously it eat clear in the housing allocation part that we desperately need for 5 bedroom homes and and very concerned that the the impact here is going to be really detrimental to our most vulnerable families so if you could give us some clarity on those I'd be very grateful thank you
thank you Councillor Keller let me answer the second question first but I think you know it's probably one of the most positive things that I can say about you know where we are is that the Council's building programme for social homes there's actually going very well I think we will be able to deliver more than me set out at the beginning of the administration because I think we've been able to find we stretched all the resources that are available to us in the Housing Revenue account 2 and also with glee from the you know we've had some very generous grants from from the Mayor of London and also we've been able to prioritise a capital on capital fund to to to so I you know I expect to although they'll be some delays because a covert 19 and because of the the inevitable delays that causes in the supply chain for construction but actually in terms of the number of homes that we deliver
by the end of the programmes will be more than than we set out to do so that that's a that's a happy story and I and I really absolutely believed that you know that's that continues to be a priority for us of the Council's at Chief that of course we could do with more more more resources from the government and ever could do even more and we'll be chasing those resources for the government and point pressure on the government to make sure that when they look at the world post code with that they actually think about some of the long standing issues that they haven't been able to address in in what seems like you know an endless decade so that that the first question that you ask us about the most vulnerable and I'm conscious that we're all with over services and Monaghan you know slick and sleek their online there are always people who need a different relationship with us and we will make provision for those people I can give you guarantee around that so that they will be able to approach us in different ways either face to face or or in a in a way the symbols so we will we will always maintain that that top of service think now wants to make a point though thank you very much Kevin I appreciate your answer and if you could send me details because when casework comes up of how to direct those kinds of residence I would be very grateful like it will do that Councillor Keller follower get and so he can slur Councillor Palace Tesla Kelleher I just wanted to just Tepin and just add a very little bit addition to what Kevin has already set out so in terms of a cloven booklets holes has not got access to to online or we are very very live to that souls just some examples of the things we are doing is all rough sleeping team are still working on the ground directly with people so the the we work directly with those customers still we have a telephone service the people who hadn't got internet access who need to contact us can ring us and we will work with them over the telephone we also work very closely with third sector partners who support or some other clients or their clients' but the support those clients to access to access the help them with their applications and things like that so that's another routine which are vulnerable clients who haven't got IT access are supported and I we have very great relationships with them a means that sector partners other than I think the other final area is there is that a duty to refer that partner organisations are public political positions have and so it over honourable and customers who haven't got a team who for example at the hospital or who have a social worker and people like that day those social workers over the the people will have the duty to refer will
we for those cases or they'll Attadale advocates and refer those people into the service of those are some of the ways in which we are currently working supporting people who haven't got I T and and and who who haven't got basically online access so and will obviously be continuing to do a bit more about that sorry to step in but I thought maybe able to say that right now sorry OK thank you very much thank you very much for Ananda I appreciate that thank you both your third next questions comes from Councillor Penfold place
I hate Thaxter but your presentation Kevin I'll I'll are located
the sort of a bit about it apart from the figure
the fact of the lack of detail as to exactly who will be affected and how that was used to that there will be redundancies am I just wondered it was this figure something that the Housing Division said we can make savings of 600 thousand pounds or did it come from above
Will the 600 thousand pounds and better work out how you do it so that come up for us or with little top-down so first question the second question is that there are three areas affected which is Housing Needs Private Sector Housing Agency and Housing Partnerships is that we are only too is in terms of how much money each one of those will lose at convinced of that belied their where we are the third question is Will this involve any outsourcing of fudge trills I'll the fourth question the LEP baby this is
because of the next item for
we're also to that discussing a new at will that allocations came away once that comes into play will that have any effect on our budget
is it cost-neutral will it will there be a cost benefit so those are my four questions thank you
OK so the first one the way we've worked on the overarching budget prices in the Council this year is to and make it as collaborative as possible so if you want there is a top-down figured that came from the government I would suggest and one that comes down to that from the government to the Council by giving us a spending limit so I'll give them that how the Council prioritises budget is is a matter of course for the council and also Fir and an answer yeah we'd been we've been involved in a process for the last six months or so collaboratively across the council and with the services you know and Ensor Ellison is it makes your both you know so the overarching you know strategy that financial strategy has to come from the top because that's what that's had understood in terms of generating the proposals that's come from right across the organisation with with
engaged with staff and with with teams drought so it's a combination about the second question
sorry that you attend question let me deal with the outsourcing were not get we're not going to be sourcing anything that's not part of any the proposals here and your last question was about bully will be the impact of the allocation scheme while I pray sure the impact of the allocation scheme will be cost neutral I mean in the end you know we've we've only got so many properties Vonnegut's many places that we can allocate and we we we we when we break cost neutral on the the the areas affected well we we we we haven't worked at the detail of that year and also what I would say is that we haven't we were our potential being once we've started to firm up on those proposals to have discussions with staff about those in the usual Council process the proper process where why we discussed those proposals with them first and with their trade unions and and they get chance to have a look with that so it's likely that we'll keep as balanced as we can basically to mitigate as much as possible
thank you
which
thank you thank you Kevin just got can I just ask come Kervern and in terms of them obviously being interpreter unit in Council as we have been under very innovative
do you have any
properties which are not in use but can be brought into use under what the impact can that half an hour
chair of the Housing Revenue account so
if if you can if you have the numbers that's fine but I appreciate if you can give us the information iture time yet we we wait wait the council has a a fairly big asset base but housing and non-housing named we do have some properties which now and then we stopped using for some rate for various reasons of course our priority is to you know if the strategic properties is to think about how best to use them are being back into use and we have done that in terms of housing supply over the last few years that that there are some there are always the properties that are available to us and we will we will part of this poll Budget processes to identify those properties and make decisions about whether we invest in them as a council or whether we think about what would otherwise of using them as we go forward
I just want to say that that sometimes when you there are certain that there are there there are certain properties which are we we we own but they've got a functions and educational function may be and where you've got properties with an educational function sometimes there are particular statutory reasons why you have to get the secretary of State approval before you can use those for other purposes or use that land for the purposes
but you know we've got leisure facilities we've got open spaces we've got commercial property and and when we look across the range of that property we're always looking to try and be a strategic as possible with it
of course we can always do more and we we intend to do that so there's another strand of the budget which is specifically looking at that I can reassure you can't open hours and I heavily involved in that thank you very much earn before bring the poor Bell for his comment as a Cabinet Member for Housing understanding order from the asker Councillor Kelleher to ask a question please
thank you Chair it's more comic than the question clearly I actually have own a briefing about some of our commercial properties and could I e-mail that to you and get your feedback soon as possible place Corsica yeah I do
Councillor Paul Belph place
thank you Councillor and asked for the indulgence just to say to so everyone's clear that budget cuts are 300 thousand pounds for Year 21 to 22 and a further 300 thousand pounds the following year so they are phased into two sections on assets we are looking at all the assets the Council owns as a large piece of work being undertaken by the Regeneration team and just today I believe we have had been that we've got the keys to Sydney Arms a former pub so we've completed on that we have the keys for sick we shot it Brexit 16 units that were going to use a temporary accommodation but it just the assets that were getting a building up that poor failure now to
I offset some of the worst expenditure we have in terms of the the amount which some temporary accommodation bill so even though the budget proposals say 10 to 15 job losses or redundancies 4 FTE is we are hoping that we can try and avoid all that through all the other mitigation measures and I have to pay credit to Fen and Kevin and his teams because Lewisham has been very good at bringing in money to the Council so Fen hit the ground running again when she
told officers and said to her team that we need to income generate and that income-generating is not sweating assets that's getting grant funding from the government from the GLA and we're very grateful to the jail A for the work they are doing supporting our housing development programme so it's not all doom and gloom and as a huge effort to try and prevent these redundancies happening in terms of the service also the service were hoping that's not going to be affected by the changes but inevitably the when you take 600 thousand pounds out of anything it's going to have an impact but were the Ofsted doing everything possible to to mitigate against it thank you
thank you very much and I can't see any other questions are left on the top function but to our them asked members if they have anything that like to refer to the pay a onto the two that a man cabinet up to chat Wanamaker him to I'm as cabin on cancel about Bell the arm regarding these them assets we have I'm just looking up and saying the southern station off on the ladder for example we have them Ladywell fourball and we I think we have another one in them
I'm dead for
but these these are permitted site which is not maybe decides not owned by the Lewisham but why we cannot build or acts of a partner to build permanent homes there is that of way
does put in to a property that we can use for two years are removed again and also we still have
Bigland behind the Lib Ladywell
bar
I just want to know what are we doing about those thinner what you can think to do said of way of them prior comedy temporary building as man well thank you Councillor over them about before Kevin answers this question out like to remind Members under members of the public that term if you wish to speak on this committee meeting please put to her question on the on the function and chat thank you Kevin yet well I think he cats if the question on on well up the licence to to safety that we recently agreed a significant investments in for the Ladywell place which will put permanent housing on that site it'll be a phased development so we we won't lose the temp accommodation in the first instance but we will will manage that very very carefully but you know fantastic new opportunity to build great new social homes there for our citizens and that's that's been agreed along with many other proposals which have been agreed you know in recent in recent months to to build supply and just on the Defford site that you mentioned that although it's a similar type of construction those will be permanent Dalby Philby pyramid buildings down and Deptford that you're that you referring to so that the label place was a specific type of thing that we did at the time were doing something different as we go forward but yeah we will be building permanently on all the sites
I thank you for your question and thank you for thank you
as Councillor Gallagher please
thanks Chair my my I am slightly concerned the
we have this figure of 600 thousand and we don't really understand most of the detail I think most of the most of what we've been was what we've heard has been quite general and it's quite hard for me and I don't know about maybe I'd maybe others disagree I'm not sure but it's quite hard for me to not want this to go to pack to get some more detail because I'm not clear really on high everything's going to say as efficient as it is people hopefully will lose their jobs but there may be some redundancies are but we don't know the detail of where the 60 thousand point is coming from not my main concern
well I'm
Cumbrian village to explain where this again it not for so you did this matter if you don't mind a cancer and Gallaher sorry Hussam now and understood where the money is coming from yeah well I made it that the money will come from the overall budget
and what I've said is that we will look at all of those areas where we have been able to make efficiencies and we will use all of our efforts to ensure that those efficiencies will accrue to us attempts of General Fund saving by means of you know staff turnover
redeployment where we can will use grants to mitigate a over the next couple of years and will do everything we can to get more money in as we do but we will basically restructure some of our services to have less staff overall potentially and we will deliver the same service effectively so it no no no staff no proposal at this stage no proposal that involves this sort of restructuring at that goes to any committee could be any more detail at this stage and would be in my in my a whole experiences Executive director over the last 11 years that at this point were proposing that the general principles of what we're going to do when we build from those general principles into how we restructure the organisation the housing service that will be a process that we go through with staff in the first instance because that's the right prices do in consultation with the trade unions and yeah that that that's where we'd be in any committee at this stage with the sorts of proposals
thank you Burton
if Councillor Gallagher I'd like to propose some wardens that we cannot put into I refer to that to park and then I'm happy to accept it term are now on on the on on your concerns
you'll be for Paul Bill am thank you my for waiting patiently what had likes Councillor than us and and thanks for allowing me to come in again so just going back on the the budgetary proposals we need to talk to the staff it's a very reason question from Councillor Gallagher that's why there's not much more detail on the proposal so it's completely reasonable question to ask but as yet we need to go through that consultation and look at how the service will will happen so the decision is to move forward with it post that I'm sure the Cabinet and his team will keep their housing Select Committee involved in the process but there's not a lot more we can do until we've got the permission for Mary Cabinet subject to business Panel to move forward and full council just going back to Councillor I'll go about the way as question Edward Street as a permanence pre manufactured housing site and I think we're under contract on that there's also Home Park which is starting soon and then there's Mayfield rich where re-evaluating that scheme but it looks like it could generate more units of social housing so Place Ladywell was only there for four years of a to begin with it's been extended but faced to may mean that that's a place late was replaced with a more permanent structured buffets one should deliver and there's a lot of work to be done yet but should deliver around 69 new homes with Place Ladywell on the 24 units of temporary accommodation on site as well so the security thank you very much
thank you very much item a conceit an or other another question about Don't know others were this has been taken out of time under is well obviously it's something that's been now very very
tractor with people people wanted them to know what is happening to the budget and we welcome all those kind of things but like another Councillor here our staff as well
councillors are really concerns about the impact of at the services after the cut but obviously you you you you explained that earlier and that is probably well then the fears of Councillor Gallagher is that is coming from because once the stuff goes the stuff because service and the if the service is diluted then look a sleigh
that the money doesn't matter that time is that the service that we give to the people of Lewisham and
and the where if Councillor Garland do have one is for your referral place
and now I do have winter refer
the never Councillor the proposals are for us if not then I'm happy to go to the next item
apologies carriages clarify helped like allegations sent hasn't got your once a referral which hadn't got the wording forward or should not opposing of before
and I'm not proposing 1 OK thanks Councillor Campbell Vice Chair
think of what I'm asking about love Councillor Brown

5 Allocations consultation

where are the next item is item number 5 with this allocation policy review and consultation and I invite the Director of Housing Services who is a Fionnula Beckman
OK thank you very much Chair I am really very very very pleased to be able to bring an this presentation on the draft allocations policy tonight I mean we have talked about this and and really happy that we've had got the opportunity to meet with yourself and with the housing and been housing Select Committee to to discuss it so
I've got Rachel has got a short presentation of another the people of that you received his pretty extensive and I know that you will have a lot to to read and go through in your roles and so what we've done if we if it is helpful is we've kind of summarised the main changes and we're proposing to walk you through that and then take to the questions coming we recognise that it's quite a big thing I hopefully will be able to
to get from you and the key points that we conclude in the consultation that's currently are ongoing so Rachel I don't know if you be able to start sharing your sides now yes there you are my thanks I've got an error on hand to share the slide say Go
Everyone suggest gonna take you through some of the what the main points the paper and I'll wait dwell too much I know that there's probably lots of questions but just to start off I thought it just be useful to kind of give some background on the on the policy
so the allocations policy is one of Housing's most important and impactful policies as I'm sure you all know and it's one of our very important ones and it defines who is most Oneida social housing and he's likely to get it
the policy sets out the way in which the Council will nominate households to Councillor Regis provider prophesies with our nomination agreements and it's really important that the policy reflects our strategic priorities which also has to include our wider Housing Strategy part which is are the sort of the private rented sector
so our current policy was last extensively updated in 2 thousand 12 and there were some further changes made in 2 thousand 17 but that wasn't a major review
over that period of time and there had been some really big changes in the demand for accommodation
those issues in those that that context has been discussed as is like Missy from many many times and your your all very aware of the substantial increasing homelessness in that period and immoral recent years as you will know because this this comes this previously came to housing Select Committee we've been using an annual lettings plan each year to support the letting of social housing in line with our priorities and it became clear that the allocations policy of the come Miss aligned with those priorities that we were highlighting are and lettings plan so we undertook a review of our policy with a view that we need to renew it so that it reflects the priorities and challenges that our residents and partners are facing at the moment as a result of the housing crisis
so just to recap on the key priorities key LB El is the acronym useful Lindberg Lewisham Parsees reducing the number of households in unsuitable and costly temporary accommodation reducing underoccupation in severe overcrowding sporting move on the single vulnerable households from supports and semi independent accommodation to independence and supporting the regeneration designated housing estates of these the priorities that we so underpin the review but that we've done
just to kind of highlight with some numbers they the very acute and challenging demand the supply issue and since 2 thousand 10 11 very mind the policy was last search reviewed in 2 thousand 12 since then odds are let's have almost Haft which is which is huge and impactful that the lack of supply that we're seeing in social housing is is causing more and more severe need as people are unable to access the social housing that they really need
and also there's a a point here around was becoming available isn't necessarily what's what's most in-demand so if I just Avalon better look at the table here what we've got on the middle column is the number of properties that were let in 19 20 19 20 x bedroom size and on the right is the number of people on the register who need that Vedran size and some of those differences are just a really stark we had 27 28 four or five bedroom properties for over 1 thousand 200 families who were waiting on the register
but in terms of their their stock that we've got available you can see that we have a significantly higher number of 1 beds that generally come forward which is also quite relatively you a smaller number of people who it needed one bed compared to their twos and threes says really highlights the kind of stock challenges
accelerate
so I'm just going to take you through the proposed changes to the policy
these are outlined in if you just go back one legislator skilling for second to circle of put
it's a summarised where we are so the their policies been reviewed and we have discussed this with has a Select Committee prior we're currently in the consultation phase
and so part of that consultation phases is coming and to yourselves as the Committee to hear your feedback and thoughts and I'll talk a little bit at the end about what's been happening with the consultation Weller out but just very I'm gonna briefly take you through the major changes that were proposing so in summary those seven hairless did so we're we've reviewed the banding structure
I'm were proposing to new rehousing reasons added to high 40 Bantu were proposing a new band for for overcrowded x 1 bed but his 48th sent that the register we have a proposal to increase the number of overall lets that we see in the air with were proposing to reduce the number of refusals that's available for for those who are on the register and were proposing to increase the number of beds per week and subject to are you integrate housing system allowing that to be manageable
I'm going to take us through each change one each changes got one slide and then at the end just talks through where would the consultation to this slide is just to kind of put in context the the numbers in each band and it gives a bit of context to how many people are kind of sitting in in the different primary housing reasons on the left is the housing register with the current funding system on the right is the proposed housing register
I think that might be us something that you might want to look at separately of course you'll get a copy of the slide so if you have any questions about about this slide particularly I think more than welcome to answer them and the main changes I mean you've got banned for you can see overcrowded x 1 bed as 4 thousand 612 people on the register which as I've mentioned the fullest of 48 per cent and you can see him back to with introduced a new overcrowded x 3 bed primary has unreason and homeless with high priority urgent need as well which I'll talk about both those changes imminent
so first of all touching on the new rehousing reasons homeless with high priority so at the moment are homeless households are currently in band 3 and after if quite a x 1 bed that's the largest cohort on the waiting list with 2 thousand 180 households currently with social housing in such scarce supply you remember the differences between the properties that coming forward and how many people are waiting we know that the Peer rest is critical to support people to me about the nuts and that's island in our new Housing Strategy that launch this the end of last year
but social housing of course needs to be prioritised to those most in need and who are homeless so proposals to create a new primary housing reason to give higher priority to homeless household to more urgently require social housing in Lewisham now this is something there
just as it would pose there you know we we've thought long and hard about how to do this in a banding system it's not it's not easy and we've put some proposals in the in the in the paper and we really welcome be back on this if any if yourselves or any of the organisations that you work with have any thoughts about this particular and proposal and whether there's any other ways that you think would be good to do this so we're proposing in in our policy paper to link this to a private rented sector offer policy and our locational priority policy so those for those who are homeless households for whom the PRs is not assessed as an appropriate option for then they would be afforded the highest oracy and also those who are assessed as needing to stay within Lewisham and through the location of priority policy we proposing also being in the high priority band as I mentioned we see could use of any other or additional approach
so I'll second new rehousing reason is a new severely overcrowded oracy so we know that we have some households who are severely overcrowded and we need to ensure those that are in the very worst conditions are prioritised for the very Scott scarce number of large properties that we have and we estimate there are about 160 families who are overcrowded by three or more bedrooms who are in need of four and five bed properties
so we are proposing to only include households with children or adult dependants in this new band any of any household who is overcrowded by three beds which are now overcrowded x 3 bed because they have adult children who are who are independent adult children they would remain in Band 3 and were proposing that so that we can really make sure that those very scarce large properties are going to households that have young children
so by adding that overcrowding x 3 bed category into Bantu that also that means overcrowded x 2 bed is in been free and were proposing an inquiry and additional band 4 which would be overcrowded x 1 bed Sats our largest category that's 48 per cent of the register at the moment we see overcrowded x 1 bed in the same baddest band as statutory homeless and we think that that needs to change and so we are proposing to create this new band as well
it's very unlikely that these households will be successful in the new to due to their high numbers and their low priority and to really recognise this would be difficult change for many people on the register and would welcome your views and feedback on that
so proposal to increase overall let's we already have a provision in our policy to instigate chain lets and were proposing to add a new element that to this to try to increase the number of less than we see in the year so what we're proposing is to ring fence a proportion were we're proposing 20 percent of our first let properties to a transfer applicant and we make sure that the resulting void is ring fenced to someone who is living in the PRs or temporary accommodation
so
I've I was in a meeting yesterday and I'm I I think explaining this is quite can be quite challenging but when she proposing that when an 20 percent of the properties that come forward in the year
a ring-fenced for people who are already living in social housing and need to move and for one for one of their primary housing reasons and the property that they vacate it's then ring-fence for people who currently don't live in social housing and are moving in from the PR I saw T A so we're trying to make salty people's housing need with one social home whilst keeping equity of access to the available properties that come forward and we believe that aside from building new social homes this is the only way we can sold more housing need with the resources that we currently have
as an example for a thousand properties over the year we could create 1 thousand 200 lengths if we ring fenced 20 percent of them so we will be solving housing need for more than 200 200 more households than we would otherwise have been
just to note that the tenants that would be moving would need to fulfil certain criteria such as no rent arrears all at L and Nasa being so so that the properties moving ready to keep the chain me thing and quite quickly
OK so reducing the number of refusals and so at the moment transferring tenants and how so-and-so eligible to refuse properties can refuse up to three properties before they're penalised and we propose reducing Mr. to because we know how scarce social housing is and we need to make sure that we're letting it efficiently and that this would be the 3 properties is quite Minister to be burdens them so we wanted to reduce that but the one off a policy for homeless households would remain
and finally we are proposing increasing the number of bids in applicant makes it they can bid for multiple properties per week which be beneficial as applicants to be able to express preference for more than one property and not be constrained by the system but just to note here that the proposal that proposal will only be implemented if the system is operationally deliverable and previously the previous item the integrate housing system was being mentioned in this is still in development for this module of that system so there's little bit of them of working out in that sense of whether this will be operationally deliverable
so that was the main a summary of the main changes that are whizzed through and just on the consultation itself with 10 weeks in SAP Rai l eight weeks in and we've had a really good response rate so far we've had fallen 46 response this and you can see there the breakdown of where are responsive to sort of coming from from where people are living so
26 per cent of our and respondents of are living in temporary accommodation currently and 33 percent are currently and in social housing all with a registered provider and our target was 450 said we're really pleased that we've we've Willmott were for off that so hopefully they'll be for sponsors this week of albeit for 50
we
have just on the next slide Ella thank so the key activities to date we've had done messaging on our websites and web pages we've e-mails all housing register applicants and the text and Arthur temperate accommodation hostel residents within working with organisations to seek to try and get to groups that may or may not be engaged
we've been working with a registered providers with the Tories and thier HMOs and with raising awareness at various Keatings and forums to try and help raise awareness and have out then pass the message on
we've had an analysis of where we are today in terms of the appear response he's responding and with just the slide covers can have what the protected characteristics could have looked like among with compared than 2 and the their population and and what we know about some of our populations in temporary accommodation to sort of understand if we need to do some extra work to really really get to and hid abusive of everyone many people has become so as at yes two days ago we sought we did a review and this is what we've saw found so
looking at Mr. T when making comparisons with homelessness acceptances if identified that though we've got knocked duties for closer working with black Africa and Chinese Indian and Bangladeshi communities that's something we're going to be focusing on
it's worth noting that the consultation response representation from BME groups is higher than for the nation's population overall
an intensive sex the consultation respondents identified his female compare almost exactly alike homeless acceptances and responses from females are significantly higher than lotions population and sexual annotation disability we haven't got huge very good data in this area as it's not mandatory but the consultation responses are comparable to lotions population
so in terms of what way where we're going forward from this though our current work we're doing with the consultation is really to proactively work with community organisations and we're looking to facilitate some specific sessions for Erne focus groups with an particular groups working with our partners and were continually monitoring the concession responses to to really trying target that engagement we have made a decision to extend our consultation period by four weeks and that's due to some of the challenges faced by the at the pandemic but also just because we have we can see that there are certain groups that we want him or from and we would like to view an extended to enable to do that that do that well so we've now extended our consultation to close on the 14th of March
so that's the end of of the presentation I would really like to have any questions or comments thank you
thank you very much richer Lisa a brilliant representation presentation sorry I'm on a bosom became open up to the other members
and to my first question is how do you publicise when how do people get to know there's a course audition going on which platforms under or Islam targeting young people on the other hard to reach people is very important so that the modems that you use to advertise is very kid into reaching those kind of groups and a second one and I'll give these other
another symbolic if I am offered a property and every fierce it in the first instant are then the second property the to be given is that on the 8th floor about tower somewhere and I'm I'm a got a height phobia
what will I where will I go from there when I have to take the run because in the last-chance thank you
a pop-soul comparable ICT students the first question about the public the consultation to put them to date so we we've been advertising and promoting the consultation in in various forms of which I mentioned in the presentation any we've been working with partners who can put its unaware of site within messaging people who we we know may have an interest like those in temporary accommodation and those on the register but you specifically mentioned hard to hard to reach groups and I think we really conscious that if it in an inner in a world where we could be out and about in the community we would have done events that we try to reach those grapes in community
spaces in libraries and and and done some more face-to-face engagement which thought his reasons hasn't been possible so that's one of the reasons we've actually extended is because we have and we're working out ways to to really do that in a in the current environment wherein so something that we're looking at doing is for example working with are are community groups to identify those people who might not be able to engage online and doing telephone conversations with them with offering translation services at the same time to try and help and overcome any language barriers
and we cannot looking to our partners as well to kind of support us to to undertake that work I hope that answers your question
answer the first question for the cycling still
there are of course say the second question events to the indecent in that particular scenario and I I think there is some parameters that would would influence that particular case cause an early depend there are certain primary housing reasons that mean you only have one offer there's a one off a policy and so in this scenario that you gave where the second person would be viewing a property if in the three in the two or three off of policy those people will have bid for that property and so one would assume that somebody wouldn't be bidding for a policy that isn't one that they would like to like to live in so I think in if if that was the case for a one off the applicant I think it would be taken a case by case basis and with the assessments that go with with a housing application
I met I've there are colleagues who I might who may be able to answer that better if if anyone thinks I have not answered correctly please do speak now
otherwise if if if the A5 even if I am incorrect Council Bernard's I'll make sure that you get an amended answer
I thank you thank you I'll I'll I sorry I discover it so as Rachel said the proposal is with the changing the number of refusals for and two from three to two is for those applicants you can't have three offers and so that is as Richard said based on a choice based letting scenario the one off a policy is not changing at also that proposals there are remaining there aren't any changes to the policy sets to confirm that that policy remains in place for the one off the the to
those people who have had three offers at the moment currently proposing to move to to is based on choice based lettings thanks over bit as appropriate thank you Obama and a good me thank you thank you very much for your officers and Councillor McKenna
thank you Chair I'm sorry right to I've got quite a few and are you ready I'm ready I've got mine okay first one how is an is just about the word suitable determined and it can't feeds into what Peter was saying about you know I have XYZ needs and the property that I'm offered
is completely contrary to those needs to me that should not count as an offer because it wasn't suitable in the first by so I'd like a breakdown of how we are determining what isn't is not a suitable offer in terms of contemplation and it seems that you've not
and engage with our housing advocate services like BSL and bench outreach so on and so forth and plus we have the mutual aid groups now that have arisen out of COVID and in it'll doing food banks community supermarkets are we make you are we maximising the partnerships that we have there because I think they can help us a lot in terms of the consultation especially with the extension
all Lewisham crimes building and or buying enough of the larger light four and five bedroom homes to meet the needs of those 106 60 families what's the strategy that we had currently there
the next one and I know that it's not things to be any quite a protected
and
descriptor under equalities but income obviously had a massive impact on whether people get to come on to the registrar or not I think we need to be acknowledging that and and showing what we're doing to address it
throughout all our talk it my pages of thought of trying to find them
so in terms of the actual question is probably too late but yeah we need to add as I said I think how we defining shoot'em all
to ensure that and how what we're doing to ensure fewer unsuitable offers made
plus we need to manage people's expectations we'll have an idea of what our dream home would be especially when behind this when you hype machine did you dream of the Parachute gonna have so when it because we haven't got those any more we need to manage people's expectations I'd like to know what we're doing towards that and to end on a positive note we have got an additional impact of these changes that I hadn't seen recognised and that we got a greater ability to identify and address hard to let properties
so those properties that nobody bids on ever why not what's wrong with them what can we do to make them more attractive
so that that we don't have any empty properties
or as few as possible I know we have to keep some in reserve for the cancer but
and I think yeah I'm finished for now Reichel search give you such a homely and that's OK this one because of my own experience and experience with casework I think it's it's really important that we get this part right yet cynically suggest to take your questions and and and comments in in order then see you asked about the what makes an offer a suitable offer so that's something that I will have to give you information on outside of this meeting to give you more detail I know that there is a lot that sits behind a suitable for so I think I'll need to ask my colleagues who work in that area
I say as the day in day out sort of thing an unkempt can give you more detail on that that's all right yeah you mentioned about erm the engaging with particular groups to help UPA knowing are consultation process so I think we have already contacted some of the organisations you have said in you mentioned
and you might be noted mutual aid groups which is a really good idea to thank you for that bench outreach I know we have we have engaged with bench outreach and VSO also we have engaged with has been a long sort of list of 100 plus organisations on the thing of being contacted I can see fans vigorously nodding so yet they use I'm not the with I've noted with you fend custard consec Councillor what we think it was yesterday we had a meeting of the homelessness forum where we which was actually chaired by the lovely lady from the bench outreach and and and she was urging her colleagues in the sector to to to respond to this more formally so they've been commenting and day the they have been commenting on they will putting formal responses and Rachel ignorance of the first question I think it might be helpful if we just made a very quick comment any can make a vaguely comments of that but I can also say that what you know there is work with doing to ensure that we minimise the and the number of unsuitable of as this is the work that we've been doing a spot of the data cleansing and the bringing in on the integrated housing system that Kevin was talking about a and briefed the Committee about in the first in the first item so so that is all helping us to to to basically have deficient service that we talk about any do want to just say they have thank you sorry I list that you enter
I thrive no various hello everybody for for those of you have met me I'm elected are Satis Group Manager for Housing Needs refugee services and so on just on the point of suitability of course
any offers of accommodation made under Part 6 by the Housing Register has to be suitable and we ensure suitability as part of the application form so a customer who applies to be on the and housing register Kemper in their what their needs are at the time of application obviously if those circumstances change they will always submit their medical records we have an in house medical adviser
who will and make recommendations and for the type of property that would be suitable if somebody is obviously known to Adult social Care who has a social worker or is known to an occupational therapist we will be see rely on medical records and as such a and also at the time of enforcing an author so if it came to the scenario that you mentioned about someone having to offers and we were enforcing that offer saying that they'd refused it of course they have the right to request a review so at the time that they've gone to view the property for example and it doesn't meet their needs they would be able to request a review and submit the evidence first to reconsider that decision as to whether that was a suitable offer or not so I hope that helps to clarify
how we want to deal with the each case on a on a case-by-case basis it does Ellie thank you very much X
just to take the next Christian was around the Lewisham homes purchasing the larger sized properties
I'm afraid I can't answer that question specifically Fen I don't know if you have any comments you want to make about that one or whether we like to take that away
Kevin maybe I think said put under
if if I can buy four-bedroom properties and and afford them are by your hand off for them so anywhere we can and we will always try and you know procure you know larger properties because we note a huge challenge for us but let me just say that they're not very affordable in in anywhere in London but particularly in inner London you know but yeah we're we're we're we we we we love to solve that problem was not an easy problem to solve
right so just to drill down a little bit Kevin I'm sorry to be a pine but I think this is necessary I not I know buying forbade 4 5 beds as you say is hugely costly and but I actually meant in-between building and buying how far are we aiming to get in terms of actually obtaining by by whatever means that size property I think when we very well I mean that this is this is a number of issues really one is there's not a lot of them generally you know you know three or four you know you know they're hard to come by whether in the marker or whatever but we are building some and we will by some and will do everything we can to meet so my my target is to have you know enough homes of a suitable size for everyone so is there isn't an end an end in the sort of finite sort of position on the it's you know if we can get them we'll get them
if they don't they actually don't come on the market the often especially the bigger ones five bedroom variant very unusual in yeah now and I know most have been be split up into HMOs and if I talk about that elsewhere so we can go back to the answers now Follett's mind Essex's where give
answer the next question was run or or comment was rant taking her taking into account income so thank you for that comment will note that as part of something to look 10th to consider when we've reviewing the responses to the consultation so if you have any other thoughts you like to add on that cancer Kelleher please do get it get in touch yak on our will you I to aim to get people at your convenience and we can discuss whether on that one thank you show and so on the manage expectations I think that's a really really good points to raise because we know looking at the numbers looking at their property 0 Ellie you put your hand up to want to mention something yeah just thought I would come in in terms of managing expectations because obviously I mean in terms of customers that are in temporary accommodation I've come in by the homelessness route I know that what we're doing at the front door is having conversations about the lack of available social housing from day one to manage expectations and an also in towns of the information on a website and we we put a lot out there in terms of how much how many properties we've got available coming up and actually about the resourcing issue over there in terms of managing expectation and of course as we get inquiries through my allocations theme speak to customers when they want updates on their Housing Register application etc so again we also have those same conversations and many many times and just to give you some of the reassurances of what we're doing I think on the ground operationally to manage expectations thanks really I think to just to add to that for in terms of for the
were reviewed policy and I think we were looking to really make sure that when we're communicating with those on the Housing Register about the the changes when the policy is revised we will include in their you know comprehensive communications about the reality of the waiting list for social housing or till we're looking to develop is a cause of calculated to help people understand exactly where they are in the in the list so that you can kind of get an understanding of how many years in many cases that will be and the reality is that for many people so shut the who are waiting on the registered social housing will not be something that is a reality just purely because of the the priority that they are in and the number of people who are in higher priority funding which is something that we do have to be I think you know realistic about Solecki say managing expectations is really important
here I am it's not the I I need to be clear good for me it's not that I want to have you know to have to do this I am in an ideal world we would have enough housing but that's not where we live now your arm concerned them out some sort of today to disrupt yeah
the conversation but on this I don't want it to develop into a dialogue there is some of the people waiting up now and in the tub function and then if your questions have been exhausted by Rachel re go place to that next question who were which is coming from Councillor Gallagher
thanks to a couple of questions and
the first one is is as a by the fact that we took away fan for shovel years ago and the idea putting it back in it would be good to know that that more about that the second thing is the in the presentation you talk to bite high people who are overcrowded x 1 bed or in the same Bond as people who are such overcrowded with with had discussions about statutory overcrowding not being a thing on our register that some of us of believe it should be a priority and and you know what the housing report to Mayor and Cabinet saying why it wasn't going to be and it would also be helpful to know more about why the the thinking behind pudding overcrowded Surbiton more severely overcrowded and Barn to and dropping all of overcrowding a bond given that it will given others around 160 household roughly you think we are not to be overcrowding category why they're not being put into Band 1 at because people will rightly be furious if they've been embalmed to for years and then they get bumped onto Barn 3 and I don't think that that it was a question of fairness there and and an analysis of the issues to just it doesn't seem to make sense with the discussions by statue overcrowding and the resistance to putting that in the criteria I would just be helpful to get more information about that particularly
OK thank you thank you for those questions and so yeah this is a really complicated landscape to statutory overcrowding and the
the other method of overcrowding the names which escapes me right the second and using the
other methods for graphics or the bedroom standard letters use
the bedroom standard yeah so I think just on the presentation maybe I I misspoke or maybe there was a misunderstanding which was the overcrowded x 1 bed is currently in the same banding statutory homeless man substrate overcrowding I just wanted to clarify that appreciate I take your point around us having taken away ban for understand and a number of years ago and then we reinstating were proposing to reinstate it again and also around you know being overcrowded x 3 bed why that's not embalmed 1 so are thinking there is that been in a band 1 is the emergency Band and is is is reserved for those who have an immediate and or emergency needs to move so sort of life and death scenario and needing to move exceptionally quickly and that was the reason that we have an
proposed that in Band 1 the would welcome as part of the consultation feedback and will note the fear that you you provided their around that not being perhaps some clear enough in terms of the statutory overcrowding bedroom standard overcrowding we have made a decision that we're not proposing to include active across and for the reasons that were outlined in the in the paper that you've referenced so that hasn't really that there isn't Latin statutory credit hadn't entered into the dialogue as part of this consultation so I'm I'm not sure I've answered your questions accurately is there anything that you'd like me to expand on further or clarify further
sorry I just think it's totally clear to me why we are doing the different methods of overcrowding with the banding system because of the impact that's going to have and I for for bond one being emergency there are quite a lot of there are few there are few queries that would put you in band one that I think it would be fair to say aren't life-and-death that's not to say they're not very important because they are that's you know but I don't think it's cut and dry as its life and death in Band 1 and it's just too high need in severe need and Bond 2 and 3
yeah absolutely understand the of Bono at that point I think that the point around some of the categories in Band 1 not being that you know emergency so for example care leavers which is linked to our own of our role as a corporate parent rather than an emergency in the same sense that some of the other bandings are and particularly the discretionary bound 1 and emergency need to move so we'll now we'll definitely note that feedback and just on the statutory overcrowding we've we discussed this at length what we have
there are a number of reasons why it was deaf is challenging and we have concluded it's not
it's not
appropriate not the wrong word but to include statutory overcrowding and the bedroom standard to have two different methods of calculating overcrowding there are different methods
in the same scheme is is a challenge when we've looked at other schemes that do try to do that in most cases where you've got stature the crowd included they removed over crime x 1 bed to ensure that you catch everyone who's overcrowded in in the in the scheme and we made the decision to not changed to statute to have a confusing kind of double double way of looking overcrowding and to keep only with the bedroom standard
I'd be really happy to have a conversation with you about the the the kind of background twirl that because there has been a lot of analysis and discussion about that I'm so I've more than welcome more dialogue on that if you'd like
thank you
are you satisfied with appearances Magilligan your
neither will be recommended to the people of questions so cure right up before we move on to the next question can I ask Members that we suspend the Standing order Spice yeah grade reQall it I get thank you very much OK Councillor Penfold place I thank you for your presentation Rachel I've got a few questions
to seek overcrowding
does mean the World War I understand why you're doing this but what you're proposing is to demote by a band over half a housing list because 4 thousand 612 people will go from Bath Road about floor and 300 99 people Gavin ban to about 3 so that's over half the housing this ask stroke or demoted by band and
I note your answer
to Councillor Gallagher about statutory overcrowding but it seems to me that by doing this and by having three different levels it still very crude and it makes the argument that we should also be looked King at stature outing as well as the bedroom standard more compelling about where you would have a fun deeper analysis of lead and you be able to say OK three bedroom overcrowded plot or 2 bedroom as Thatcher overcrowded as ban to found 3 could be two bedroom overcrowded or one bed and plus Thatcher overcrowding
and would be a much more subtle and nuanced way of dealing with the allocation of scarce resource so I'm I know I probably raises in the first place I'm still bang on about it but I do think that's a way to go and our local authorities London local authorities which do that that's my first point as a point as both Alveston
turning to an
with this new overcrowded by ban three bedrooms and my talking about laws including adult if you like adult children contradiction in terms but
it occurs to me that you could be in a situation as a family
that you are overcrowded with three bedrooms so your imbalance through bidding and one of those children becomes an adult what are we gonna do in that circumstance are we then going to say that family yeah we weren't ban to but tough law you didn't get an offence so you going back to ban three I think that we'll cools quite a lot of resentment because you'll be effectively relegating somebody part way through the process
with homeless with an additional lead are I'm I just really wanted clarification are you saying that you an iron you being this category if a you weren't suitable for private sector sector rental for all
you had led by a priority under the our borough letting priority scheme so is it or is it you have to fulfil both both criteria it either or narrows Playle I cannot back very quickly for you that it's not they're not together it's evil
OK I'm on page 2 5 there's a read in the papers
since last Thursday
because my bin for your your your your your sounds a bit cracking are so I can I sit I say you can get so I can try to proper took of your camera than it is picking out a couple of is the he goes place as part are probably a blessing anyway to be honest
OK so yeah
2 A 5 I think it is said that there will be a and delegated powers for officers to learn from a lawyer changes to the policy but I thought that have been dropped Azul what are what our minor changes that we needed and definition of that I left the finally we talk about chain letting
and a way to maximise our housing stock which I completely understand are we think about more than one person in the train consent because what the example we were getting was not really one while a trail of to people and a three or four five I don't know whether that's been thought about us
possibility though to my questions Rachel thank you OK thank you and I'm glad to see that you are better off where when the camera was of the TA thank you letter I cake nobody plates
thank you for those comments filly noted the comment about overcrowded and thank you about
the overcrowded x 3 bed again you mentioned the scenario where somebody would a child would would age and then that would mean that they would be dropped and I think that's a really valid point something that I would like to discuss with my officers and come back to you on how we were proposing that that would work and whether like you say that would be very challenging and kind of issues around Ferguson and stuff so thank you very much for that comment the homeless band being it we are proposing it not as to exact having to fulfil both those criteria is either all of those criteria
and and the comments around the chain lettings so yeah the smart lettings that we're proposing is really an kind of to illustrate a very equitable and clear way of of increasing Lance but we do we will still have provision in the policy to to have to orchestrate longer chain lacks where appropriate so it wouldn't just be a case of only doing that 1 1 and the other there would be some new once in there to facilitate those longer chain let's where appropriate which is already part of our policy
but welcome thoughts on that though as well so if you could have any thoughts about that that you want to raise with you know feedback these day
but thank you very much item a concert in other question on the chart function
and is then able to last banning question
of rich of Dustin before you go on the consultation visit given Lewisham is amount catcher of place
and there have been some people don't understand and don't speak English that the translation of your ref no translation reach those communities that doesn't speak English
in in the Borough I know this that if you have to translate you that was a lot of languages but a list that is some few dominant sire other languages that are around in them in the Borough have you now have you done at all so role will have up off or provision to be able to chunk late on for an
those who contact us asking on ask on behalf of a particular community group we don't as default translate from the Minister and that's that's not practice this fit think I have adopted by the Council for a number of years now and but we do have translators and both verbal and also the ability to translate on request
he
does not one of them would return so it is very unlikely for somebody to contact the console does too according to do get it was littered for is for the purpose of utterly getting their view hard in terms of consultation wall is very unlikely that to happen
obviously those people there's a lot of people are the people have been left laughter and the the consequences of being not be able to participate
in the end up in the manner proposed has been made on their behalf
what I mean it because they haven't been involvement in the problem fastness yeah
yes sorry consultant for that was just going to just supplement Rachel's answer you may remember that in the presentation that Rachel gave earlier raw that and there's a lot of information there so it may have all got mixed in but we talked about the fact that we are very conscious that we we have to accept where one reasons extending the consultation is because we want to do so most focused work with our communities who are all would be exactly the people you're talking about people who might not be able to read and who are in the English language or who might need support kind of and having interpretations of our consultation so what we're doing with that is this is where the focus groups with community organisations is is taking it so we are reaching out to community organisations to help us to contact you know to work through them I mean currently we're live to the fact that people who swore are not able to access information in the English language are probably working with advocates and others currently on their housing case and so we are backtracking using going to those people to ask them if they could then be First back so that we could get to those clients through them but also if where we can to make it known that we are very keen to contact the you know catflap announced that I'm just because people not everybody who doesn't who speaks a different language can read a different language as well so sometimes put producing material in community languages may not to get to the people we are trying to get to because they may not be able to read in those languages so whilst we will do that to people approaches and ask for directly asked what I am very keen to do is to work through our partners in the budgetary sex as well as with other partners to try and engage them or get their views where they talked to us because we I feel that that might be a good way of actually hearing from those people directly so that's one of the things we're doing
thank you very much them must question of his from customer Penfold
yeah just put on my file I'll is it possible that Ofsted come back and say how with the breakdown of abandoned you've done the new banding the found for how that would be better overcrowding was included
sorry I can't spend for came to say that again yes sorry could you a breakdown of figures as to how the number of people in the banding that you you produced that the four bands as statutorily over statutory overcrowding
who did as well as the bedroom standard
I will look into whether we can do that I know we were having some real issues with the quality and of our data to really accurately informed statue the crowd because the factors that you take into account for the statue of regarding calculation and the fact that we have a lot of discrepancy in the data that we have on are systems to do with the number of rooms that people have in their housing so for example we have a lot to two living rooms and it's quite hard says to sift through some of that I will take that to my team and and see if it's possible to do that Councillor bow you even put in the track that you can come in and the Bill goes coming
surrounding the chest
just the centre of grim so obviously we discussed this before the for Lewisham the Priory priorities homelessness so we have to factor that into what we're doing obviously this to the public consultation there's been through Mayor and Cabinet and business Panel so this is the consultation that were currently are out for feedback from so that by all means please feed something into that but I don't think we can change the consultation because we already set it down it's been through the council processes and Councillor Penffordd you know Unite don't agree on this statutory overcrowding because the for me homelessness is is the priority however but you're welcome to feel anything into this process but the actual consultation is based was gone through Mary governance and business Panel so but anything else can be added and by all means e-mail Fen and Kevin and Rachel with what what coming to have and also the Committee can feed them through as well
thank you Councillor Bill
with that I drew to a close of that item under thank able much richer under your team for being very helpful and darter presentation under subsequent answering the questions very very well thank valley

6 Select Committee work programme

the next item that we have or invite them are Manager as good a manager was joint Barden's that on this Select Committee having commit work programme a repeat survey very quick and work programme as set out on page 3 m 25 m if you have any questions about it let me know now and one item to note for the committee to has been included in the Lewisham homes business plan is due to come to the next Committee meeting on the 9th March so if anybody has any questions and abstained the No
or if not then checking in the meeting and it was done listen to them murder love young about tyre thank you
so it goes on to say No you want us out week spent over energy about housing allocations
I'm sorry for that but that wasn't within a major item will be said on his agenda but now it thank you very much for attending this meeting and then I should be looking for and see you in the next in the name of Feb zone and yourself the rest of the evening thank you very much
Webcast Finished - 1:43:13
for coming clean air and